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 mactaylor
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| posted on February 25th, 2013 at 05:02 PM |
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group 3j
how do you read the engine specs seems pretty loose to me!
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colin
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| posted on February 25th, 2013 at 05:04 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
how do you read the engine specs seems pretty loose to me!
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3J is the old class, it is now Improved Production.
Cheers Col
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mactaylor
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| posted on February 25th, 2013 at 06:06 PM |
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yeah got the new regsl 3j- improved production.
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sander288
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| posted on February 25th, 2013 at 06:45 PM |
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I thought the idea of imp pro was to have alot of freedom in what you could do; with the exception that the same features of the car must remain; i.e.
4 cy boxer, steel body, torsion bars etc...
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bat69
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| posted on February 25th, 2013 at 06:53 PM |
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Sander your pretty much right how ever there are a fair amount of freedoms. As long as the engine is the same numbers cyclinders, configuration and
make (i.e Toyota to Toyota, Nissan to Nissan etc) and it came out in some production car some where in the world then the engine is allowed. i.e An
old Datto with an SR or Corona with 4AGE or a Gemini with a twin cam which came out in the Holden Apollo (Toyota Camry). Heads, exhaust and
induction/ignition and capacity are free as to are brakes. If you want to know anything the guys on here who race VWs in the Imp Pro class would be
more then willing to help. Send me a PM if you have any Q's.
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Sides
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 07:50 AM |
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Yeah - plenty enough freedom really.
Bout only real restriction that potentially a pain is the "block/case must be from original manufacturer".
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vassy66T1
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 09:04 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
Yeah - plenty enough freedom really.
Bout only real restriction that potentially a pain is the "block/case must be from original manufacturer".
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Yep
And how many run magnesium cases like they should??? (secret poll ... no names)
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PAZZAN
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 08:14 PM |
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you could run a type 4 case as they came out in the 411 s which is a vw production car  
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 08:23 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mactaylor
how do you read the engine specs seems pretty loose to me!
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3J is the old class, it is now Improved Production.
Cheers Col
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Colin, its still known as the 3J class but they have added the "improved production"
http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/02_race/d.%203rd%20Category/RA29_Group_3J_20...
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 08:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bat69
As long as the engine is the same numbers cyclinders, configuration and make (i.e Toyota to Toyota, Nissan to Nissan etc) and it came out in some
production car some where in the world then the engine is allowed. i.e An old Datto with an SR or Corona with 4AGE or a Gemini with a twin cam which
came out in the Holden Apollo (Toyota Camry).
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Nathan, what engine case do you and the yellow beetle run ?
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 matberry
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 08:39 PM |
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Look out
       
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| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
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Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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matberry
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| posted on February 26th, 2013 at 09:21 PM |
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Craig, my PM's aren't sending, why don't you post your question here.
Anyway, my response is, I agree entirely, rules are rules. I'd love to hear what cases other cars are running.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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sander288
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 08:15 AM |
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If you can run a type 4 case in a bug in 3J then surely its ok to have an aluminium case for a type 1. Although it says it must come from the same
manufacturer if the factory isn't making them anymore a replacement item must be ok.
Just peeked at the Formula Vee rules and even they can run the aluminium cases!
If it was my car in 3J I would be going the type 4 engine route; way more power and torque!
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matberry
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 08:31 AM |
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If I was running 3J, I would go mag type 1 all the way. Ali cases are definately not made by VW, just like Scat, Pauter, TF1 etc etc aren't.
To me if it's 2 litre, a Type 4 would be a step backwards, heavier, all torque and no power, smaller rev range, but for over 2 litre they make more
sense as you can go crazy in displacement, although I'd probably still stick with type 1 for the higher rpm, cheaper more available components and
bottom line, more power-weight (yes awesome power 'can' be made from type 4, but heads are VERY exxy)
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Sides
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 08:46 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Look out
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Heh heh... oops... did I cause all that ???
My engine's built on an original VW mag case, which DB said checked out surprisingly well.
Not so much for the rules sake but more that ali cases are around 8kg heavier... and all at the worst end of the car to have extra weight.
Rules wise, well hey - rules keep evolving all the time, and from what I've seen in other classes it's all fine until you start winning and
someone's prepared to poniy up the $$$ to protest.
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Sides
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 08:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by sander288
If you can run a type 4 case in a bug in 3J then surely its ok to have an aluminium case for a type 1. Although it says it must come from the same
manufacturer if the factory isn't making them anymore a replacement item must be ok.
Just peeked at the Formula Vee rules and even they can run the aluminium cases!
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FVee are OK because they specifically allow it, while for Imp Prod there's this catch line in there at the start...
"The entire vehicle must remain unmodified except for specific freedoms allowed in these regulations and
modifications necessary to comply with “General Requirements for Cars and Drivers”."
I agree that you should be able to run 'em tho if want to !!!
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Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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BiX
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 08:59 AM |
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My engine is built on a mag case for IP and PRC. Though the alum case would be stronger, it not within the rules, but seems to be a common area to
bend them.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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matberry
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 09:15 AM |
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Yeah Dave, look what you started.....
I agree, for me the weight is the biggest criteria being over the rear axle line. I forgot to mention that new mag cases are still available so there
aren't any excuses to be running aftermarket.
How come the number of thread views keeps going up but the racers aren't commenting??????
[edit] ali case racers aren't commenting.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 09:26 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by PAZZAN
you could run a type 4 case as they came out in the 411 s which is a vw production car
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you could, but was the 411 commercially available to the public as a 'new' car in Australia with over 200 sold and registered in Aus ?
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PAZZAN
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 12:30 PM |
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heads are meant to be original as well I think..I ran a mag case.... heads???
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 12:57 PM |
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"4.1 General:
Subject to the limitations contained in 4.2 and 4.3(iii) below,the engine and components directly associated with its function are free. The
crankshaft centreline as viewed from above must be parallel to that of the original engine."
Heads are 'free', so can be aftermarket and not restricted to original manufacturer.
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BiX
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 12:58 PM |
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Heads look free
"Subject to the limitations contained in 4.2 and 4.3(iii) below, the engine and components directly associated with its function are free."
and heads not mentioned below, they are free. In theory we could go to a custom made, twin cam, 8v head each side.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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sander288
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 04:37 PM |
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I wonder how this will play out with targeted scrutiny coming in? They'd have to prove it was aluminium and not mag... which wouldn't be easy for
them
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matberry
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 06:47 PM |
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Shaun, proof is on the casting, VW or AutoLinea.....no brainer
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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mactaylor
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 06:53 PM |
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good thread hey! sorry boys.
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mactaylor
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 06:58 PM |
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so v dub case 2ltr capacity who has a new idea of power production?
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colin
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| posted on February 27th, 2013 at 08:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Yeah Dave, look what you started.....
I agree, for me the weight is the biggest criteria being over the rear axle line. I forgot to mention that new mag cases are still available so there
aren't any excuses to be running aftermarket.
How come the number of thread views keeps going up but the racers aren't commenting??????
[edit] ali case racers aren't commenting.
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I run a VW AS21 mag case,
what other people use, well i couldn,t care less.
Ally case or VW, no big deal.
Cheers Col
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PAZZAN
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| posted on February 28th, 2013 at 07:42 PM |
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yep I agree who cares what case your running ,ally is heaver but stronger I went through about 4 mag cases in about 12 years of competing...
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1303Steve
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| posted on February 28th, 2013 at 08:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberryTo me if it's 2 litre, a Type 4 would be a step backwards, heavier, all torque and no power, smaller rev range, but for over 2
litre they make more sense as you can go crazy in displacement, although I'd probably still stick with type 1 for the higher rpm, cheaper more
available components and bottom line, more power-weight (yes awesome power 'can' be made from type 4, but heads are VERY exxy)
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So would an oxy boxer be allowed?
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sander288
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| posted on February 28th, 2013 at 08:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
So would an oxy boxer be allowed?
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I reckon this would be allowed.
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