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 Allbones
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 posted on August 26th, 2013 at 10:00 AM |
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My Conundrum
So, I'm at a headways at the moment. My beetle keeps chewing out wheel bearings on the front left hand side and I'm not sure why, or who is at
fault.
I'll give you a quick run down of the construction of the front end and let you draw your own conclusions.
I recieved a 4" narrowed air kewld beam in january, I purchased a set of 2.5" drop spindles from Vollks and took the beam to a professional to have
the link pins & king pins done correctly, and the entire beam (spindles, arm etc) assembled. The beam was installed at the end of february.
I installed the beam with my farther, we used 1 castor shim under each side of the bottom tube & standard length bolts.
Wheel allignment was done by sight & taken to pedders to have a wheel allignment done.
Pedders would touch anything but the steering arms because "link pins etc are too difficult to do an allignment on".
They screwed up my allignment (didnt center the steering before they started, ended up with no right lock). So they had to do another allignment. (if
you can call straightening the front wheels and still not centering the steering box correctly an allignment).
It really wasnt that bad though and well and truely driveable now, so on the road it went.
Two months later the first wheel bearing went (on the way home from dubs at the abbey actually). We replaced the bearing, used bearing locktight stuff
to ensure it wasnt spinning freely, & low and behold, the car is up on jack stands again with another flogged out bearing.
So my two questions are as follows: Why am I chewing out bearings so quickly? The wheels at sight, appear to be stright up and down & stright
front to back.
Second question: How much responsibility is on the person who assembled the beam in the first place. Is the amount of shims they did (or didnt use)
when setting up the spindles a contributing factor here? As I said, the camber doesnt look out, but thats not to say it isn't.
Feel free to ask any additional questions to try and guage a better feeling of the situation.
Thanks for your help.
Allbones.
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 matberry
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 11:17 AM |
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The bearings will handle any amount of mis-alignment without failing so quickly, so for me, the problem will be either the quality of bearing, the
instalation, the grease used (or application ie. too much, not enough or incorectly packed) or most likely the thrust adjustment upon installation.
Assuming standard ish size wheels, cleaned bearing cavity in the drum/disc and normal road use.
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Allbones
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 11:57 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
The bearings will handle any amount of mis-alignment without failing so quickly, so for me, the problem will be either the quality of bearing, the
instalation, the grease used (or application ie. too much, not enough or incorectly packed) or most likely the thrust adjustment upon installation.
Assuming standard ish size wheels, cleaned bearing cavity in the drum/disc and normal road use.
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First bearing we used was japanese. Second was german. Will be able to look tonight and get the exact item number for confirmation.
The right side has had no issues at all, still spins freely with no noises etc and has the exact same bearing as I used on the left side (the japanese
bearing). Same bearing grease was used aswell.
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bajachris88
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 12:24 PM |
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You say narrowed beam.
What wheel offset you got at the moment, particularly in comparison to stock?
Excessive offset from stock will reduce bearing lifespan.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Allbones
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 12:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
You say narrowed beam.
What wheel offset you got at the moment, particularly in comparison to stock?
Excessive offset from stock will reduce bearing lifespan.
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I'm running standard german 15" smoothies with 135/80 rubber, so what ever standard offset is, +2" haha.
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Camo
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 01:19 PM |
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You stated that you and your father put the front end together. Is there any chance one of you did the right side and the other person did the left
side.
Not implying you guys don't know, but has one of you put too much pre-load on the left side bearing and again the second time around (also as Mat
implied). To much load is going to overheat the bearing and will chew it out.
Seems strange how its only happening to one side, with all else being equal.
Kev
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Allbones
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 02:47 PM |
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The grease used was "Castrol HTB" and the bearing used was "SKF Brand - Item No.: 30304J2/Q"
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tar76
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 04:12 PM |
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Was that bearing and cone?
"Obey your Dreams"!
62 Std beetle.
65 11 wnd Split "The Cross".
6? coming very soon!!!!
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Allbones
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| posted on August 26th, 2013 at 04:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tar76
Was that bearing and cone?
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Yes, I believe so. If I remember correctly, it was all sort of one unit?
I will take photos of the failures tonight & upload them also.
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vwo60
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| posted on August 27th, 2013 at 04:41 PM |
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I would be looking at the machining in the hub to derermin if the bearing bores are square and parrell to each other. they only have to be a small
amount out to cause excessive wear, roller bearings will not handle any misalignment.
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matberry
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| posted on August 27th, 2013 at 05:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Allbones
| Quote: | Originally
posted by tar76
Was that bearing and cone?
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Yes, I believe so. If I remember correctly, it was all sort of one unit?
I will take photos of the failures tonight & upload them also.
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The 'one unit' bit here worries me, so you DEFINATELY had to press in the outer race???
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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ian.mezz
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| posted on August 27th, 2013 at 06:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Allbones
| Quote: | Originally
posted by tar76
Was that bearing and cone?
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Yes, I believe so. If I remember correctly, it was all sort of one unit?
I will take photos of the failures tonight & upload them also.
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The 'one unit' bit here worries me, so you DEFINATELY had to press in the outer race???
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yer I use a hammer , if press not handy
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matberry
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| posted on August 27th, 2013 at 08:14 PM |
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Me too but I've heard of people not changing the puter race. That's what I was meaning, has the outer race been changed whilst fitting the new
bearings.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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vlad01
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| posted on August 27th, 2013 at 11:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Me too but I've heard of people not changing the puter race. That's what I was meaning, has the outer race been changed whilst fitting the new
bearings.
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its a must, some brands don't have the exact same angle of taper and will lead to premature failure when a non matching bearing and race are paired.
I would be inclined to say that might be the problem here.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Allbones
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| posted on August 28th, 2013 at 09:06 AM |
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I was incorrect, It is a bearing and cone configuration.
I've been speaking with a few people and I have a few ways to try and rectify the issue now, so thanks very much everyone for all your help. I will
advise how I go.
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STIDUB
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| posted on August 28th, 2013 at 11:21 AM |
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You have pm 
Oh who was it in queens park on Sunday around lunch time? 3 early looking beetles rolled by...
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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Allbones
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| posted on August 28th, 2013 at 11:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by STIDUB
You have pm
Oh who was it in queens park on Sunday around lunch time? 3 early looking beetles rolled by...
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They would have probably been "Stanley", his son & "Bob Down" if it was a beige bug, white 70's bug & late 50's grey bug. I was meant to
try and make it but couldnt on account of being un able to roll.
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Stanley
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| posted on August 28th, 2013 at 12:34 PM |
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It was probably Rob and his wife in the two "flash beetles' and Marcus in his sons blue beetle....i'd already left.
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STIDUB
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| posted on August 28th, 2013 at 12:47 PM |
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Made me miss having an old car to cruise in on weekends.
Wonder where the subie/rotor powered bus got to?
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STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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greedy53
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| posted on August 30th, 2013 at 11:45 PM |
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swap over the hubs and see what happens and make sure the inner cup is fitted right
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68AutoBug
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| posted on August 31st, 2013 at 05:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Allbones
The grease used was "Castrol HTB" and the bearing used was "SKF Brand - Item No.: 30304J2/Q"
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a 30304 is a metric tapered roller bearing and comes as a complete bearing Cup [outer] and cone [inner part- with rollers and cage]
these are not like LM11910- LM11911 Cup & cone.. [example only] which can be bought individually and some cones can be used with different cups..
LM11910-LM11912
but the metric bearings are a set,, 30304 cup & cone number..
that grease sounds like what I bought many years ago, but it was green [clay based grease] so, I still use it on My tappet cover gaskets.. lol ..
cheers
LEE
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ragged
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| posted on September 1st, 2013 at 12:34 AM |
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Which bearings are failing on the left side? Inner, outer or both?
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AA003
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| posted on September 1st, 2013 at 06:55 AM |
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Have you been driving in water?
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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Allbones
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| posted on September 2nd, 2013 at 09:20 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ragged
Which bearings are failing on the left side? Inner, outer or both?
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outer left side seems to be the only one failiing.
And I have only been in water when it rains haha.
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matberry
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| posted on September 2nd, 2013 at 11:59 AM |
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So explain how you're setting the thrust adjustment.
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ragged
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| posted on September 2nd, 2013 at 03:12 PM |
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Water is entering via the speedo cable at the back of the spindle. There is a rubber seal that slips over the speedo cable, and into the back of the
spindle, but with dropped spindles, there is an extra hole that needs to be sealed with silicon. Whilst your at it, smear a little silicon over the
cap where the cable and retaining clip are to ensure a good seal at that end too.
Water enters and contaminates the grease stopping it from doing its job.
Dave
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Allbones
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| posted on September 3rd, 2013 at 09:37 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ragged
Water is entering via the speedo cable at the back of the spindle. There is a rubber seal that slips over the speedo cable, and into the back of the
spindle, but with dropped spindles, there is an extra hole that needs to be sealed with silicon. Whilst your at it, smear a little silicon over the
cap where the cable and retaining clip are to ensure a good seal at that end too.
Water enters and contaminates the grease stopping it from doing its job.
Dave
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That would make sense given its the only variable really. I will try this when its replaced.
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