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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 03:07 PM |
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EJ22 has cooked, but will rebuild
Unfortunatley the heater bypass hose near the thermostatblew, and we lost the water and cooling to the engine, and not continually looking at the temp
guage, it was not noticed that the guage was on 80 degrees, which is unusual on a 37 degree day. So we pull over and the motor smelt very hot, and the
timing covers were melting. The radiator was cold, as there was no water left at all.
On pulling the engine out and stripping down, the burnt oil smell was pretty rancid. The wiring and injectors are fine. I already had a pair of new
heads. The engine builder has checked the engine case for heat damage, warping etc. and it is good. The engine was second hand when I put it in, so
who knows how many k's it has done. There was a lot of old age wear in the bores and bearings. The engine builder is going to go 0.5 over on the
pistons rebore. and 0.25 over on the crank main and big end. Then a dynamic balance to keep it smooth.
So with a new rebuild on the long motor and new timing kit and new water pump, It should last quite a few years. I will be replacing all water hoses
also. I am also going to fit a low coolant idiot light.
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barls
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 03:35 PM |
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Bugger that suxs pete.
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 Joel
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 04:03 PM |
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What have you got for a temp gauge?
I've got one that starts flashing red if it gets to whatever temp you set the warning at.
It also has a beeping warning too but the flashing red is hard enough to miss on its own.
What temp does it normally sit on?
if the themostat is working right it should get to 80c in about 5 mins and stay there without dropping any lower, the fans turn on at 95c.
The stock 'stats are 82c or 78c for cars with A/C.
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helbus
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 04:19 PM |
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It has always sat between 85-90. On hot days it can climb to 100 with fans coming on at 95. The thermostat is currently 82.
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helbus
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 04:43 PM |
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I have had people say "just get another s/h motor" They can be a bit hit and miss. The first one I bought lasted a year and the small end bearings
in the conrods started to let go. This current motor has done pretty good and we had done about 50,000k's on it. However the overheating was not the
only problem, the motor was worn out. Could have been 300K km when we got it?
This way I get a known product. I can keep it clean an maintained from day 1.
I will also be putting in a clutch and get the gearbox bearing noise fixed. New driveshaft boots.
Seeing as the only maintenance in the last 8 years has been a starter motor and front ball joints. This is the love the bus deserves.
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1303Steve
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 06:19 PM |
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Hi
Thats bad luck, but let us know the cost for the rebuild, I wonder how that compares with doing a rebuild on a VW motor.
Running cool as in no water for the gauge sender to sense is a problem with many cars. It requires a constant watch to see whats happening.
Steve
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hulbyw
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| posted on February 8th, 2014 at 07:45 PM |
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On my previous 4by, I fitted an Engine Saver low water alarm. It's the sort of thing you need when you go into very remote areas of the outback.
Worked extremely well, however it does a self check at startup which means the alarm sounds for a second or two. Bit annoying, but worth it for the
peace of mind. PHAT BUG has a whole Suby for sale in Vic for $650 in the classifieds on here.
Cheers.......Wayne
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vlad01
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| posted on February 9th, 2014 at 07:52 AM |
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that sucks. That engine is completely toast, everything will be warped and not worth fixing. Because you lost the water the temp sensor would more or
less just be measuring air inside the passage and not reflecting the actual temps seen. The internal temps could of reached well over 200c or more.
I wonder if one can get new crate engines?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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helbus
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| posted on February 9th, 2014 at 05:05 PM |
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The engine is not toast, as confirmed by the engine machinist. The bores are not warped or out of round, and the block is not soft, it passed a test
they do on alloy. I couldn't imagine 200c destroying the main block of an engine.
As I already had two new heads, I have that part covered. I have access to good pricing on good quality parts, and we assemble engines where I work,
so the engine machining is something I have confidence in.
I will have a final build cost, however I believe it will be lower than retail.
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Joel
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| posted on February 9th, 2014 at 08:34 PM |
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That was pretty much the situation I was in.
Had Reco heads already from my original EJ22 so we just did a full reco of the EJ25 and put the heads on it.
Using all geniune parts it came to a bit under $2k and be good for over 300,000kms.
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vlad01
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| posted on February 10th, 2014 at 02:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
The engine is not toast, as confirmed by the engine machinist. The bores are not warped or out of round, and the block is not soft, it passed a test
they do on alloy. I couldn't imagine 200c destroying the main block of an engine.
As I already had two new heads, I have that part covered. I have access to good pricing on good quality parts, and we assemble engines where I work,
so the engine machining is something I have confidence in.
I will have a final build cost, however I believe it will be lower than retail.
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Wow that is lucky.
I know when my fan stopped in my daily and got to 140ºc~, it locked the engine to a dead stop. The pistons swelled and seized in the bores.
After it cooled down it was good to go again, although it has done damage as it rattles a bit and lost some power since then, also leaking coolant and
oil as everything over expanded. its done over 25-30K since lol.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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helbus
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| posted on February 10th, 2014 at 07:01 PM |
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Also will be fitting new timing kit, new water pump, new plugs, leads, thermostat, heater hoses, oil and filter.
Any suggestions of other items?
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ian.mezz
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| posted on February 10th, 2014 at 07:23 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
What have you got for a temp gauge?
I've got one that starts flashing red if it gets to whatever temp you set the warning at.
It also has a beeping warning too but the flashing red is hard enough to miss on its own.
What temp does it normally sit on?
if the themostat is working right it should get to 80c in about 5 mins and stay there without dropping any lower, the fans turn on at 95c.
The stock 'stats are 82c or 78c for cars with A/C.
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Ha Joel what the name of the guy with the lowered rat bug that moved to QLD ?? He worked at Subaru and could get new long motors cheap .David ?????
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ian.mezz
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| posted on February 10th, 2014 at 07:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ian.mezz
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
What have you got for a temp gauge?
I've got one that starts flashing red if it gets to whatever temp you set the warning at.
It also has a beeping warning too but the flashing red is hard enough to miss on its own.
What temp does it normally sit on?
if the themostat is working right it should get to 80c in about 5 mins and stay there without dropping any lower, the fans turn on at 95c.
The stock 'stats are 82c or 78c for cars with A/C.
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Ha Joel what the name of the guy with the lowered rat bug that moved to QLD ?? He worked at Subaru and could get new long motors cheap .David ?????
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calcool 
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vlad01
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| posted on February 10th, 2014 at 08:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Also will be fitting new timing kit, new water pump, new plugs, leads, thermostat, heater hoses, oil and filter.
Any suggestions of other items?
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are doing all the gaskets and main seals?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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helbus
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| posted on February 10th, 2014 at 09:11 PM |
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Full new Japan made gasket, seal and O ring kit being used. New ARP USA made head stud kit also being used.
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vduboy
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| posted on February 11th, 2014 at 10:39 AM |
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I always fit a new oil pump to my rebuilds at work, (motorbikes) for a little extra piece of mind. I agree with rebuild what you have though, at least
you know what you are ending up with, always weary of second hand parts.. and I work at a wreckers!!
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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vlad01
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| posted on February 11th, 2014 at 01:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Full new Japan made gasket, seal and O ring kit being used. New ARP USA made head stud kit also being used.
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Always a good time to go MLS gaskets.
I have done a number of MLS conversions on problematic 4L ford engines and the MLS gaskets are the best! They outlast the engine.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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helbus
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| posted on March 2nd, 2014 at 10:24 PM |
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I have got the engine back from machining.
I got the following done
Case checked for overheating softness
Cases cleaned
Main bores 0.5 oversize to suit new 0.5 pistons
Case faces machined flat
case bolted together with torque plates and line bored
case dissassembled, main bearings fitted
Crank bored 0.25 over on main and big ends
crank fitted and case bolted together to check crank clearances
head faces machined flat
Crank dynamically balanced
Conrods weighted
Flywheel and clutch assy dynamically balanced as an assembly
Stock engine however built to high tolerences. 0.0025mm is the tolerence
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Joel
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 09:00 AM |
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And now good for another 300,000+kms
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modulus
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 09:38 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Stock engine however built to high tolerences. 0.0025mm is the tolerence
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Crikey. That's 1/10 of 1/1000 of an inch. Is that possible?
In any case, it should run as smoothly as silk, especially with the flywheel/cluth assembly balanced.
hth
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helbus
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 04:32 PM |
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Gearbox rebuild with new main bearings (FAG genuine), new sychro on 3rd, quiet 4th gearset and thrust plate modification. This is becoming an
expensive excercise, however seing as all I have spent on the bus in the last 8 years is a new starter motor and two front ball joints, it is not too
bad.
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vduboy
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 04:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Gearbox rebuild with new main bearings (FAG genuine), new sychro on 3rd, quiet 4th gearset and thrust plate modification. This is becoming an
expensive excercise, however seing as all I have spent on the bus in the last 8 years is a new starter motor and two front ball joints, it is not too
bad.
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Its only money mate, might as well enjoy it!
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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helbus
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 05:21 PM |
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Trouble is the money has to come from somewhere.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 05:52 PM |
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Maybe too late but Rod Penrose was/is selling a "new" 1800 gear box at the moment
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=104272
Too late for a 5 speed subaru box conversion?
Futue te ipsum!!!
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helbus
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 05:54 PM |
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Mine is a 2 litre box. I would prefer it over the 1800 box.
5 speed conversion would add another 5 grand to the cost, not something I can justify at this stage.
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vduboy
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| posted on March 3rd, 2014 at 06:41 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Trouble is the money has to come from somewhere.
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I know what you mean, I'm in the middle of selling my soul on eBay... I'll let you know if I get a good price! At least you know after all the
saving it'll go for another 300k with a little care. Good luck with it all.
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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vlad01
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| posted on March 6th, 2014 at 12:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Trouble is the money has to come from somewhere.
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hmmm, all too familiar with that one.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Subarugears
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| posted on March 6th, 2014 at 06:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Mine is a 2 litre box. I would prefer it over the 1800 box.
5 speed conversion would add another 5 grand to the cost, not something I can justify at this stage.
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It would add only $3,500 to the cost....
Dunno if that would have put it closer to the mark for you though. Rebuilding motors ain't cheap 
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helbus
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| posted on April 5th, 2014 at 08:40 PM |
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Motor is nearly assembled. Just waiting for a timing cover that goes behind the cam gear on the drivers side. The Subaru service center has given me
the wrong one two times, even though I gave them the part number the second time.
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