| [ Total Views: 7223 | Total Replies: 50 | Thread Id: 106725 ] |
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 tweety
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| posted on July 29th, 2014 at 02:58 PM |
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Tweety's VW auto/Subaru EA81 conversion rebuild
It was 6 years ago I purchased my new Panther trike new. It had a 1916cc new engine and 40 year old VW full automatic.
For a few reasons I went EA81 Brumby engine. The engine got a supercharger ala Joels method of suck through SC12. Then EFI SPFI from USA (we didnt get
that here) then I retired and dont want to do any major work on him anymore just tinkering.
So out it came along with the 003 auto. I purchased another auto (you have to be quick!!). Then took it to an auto specialist for new seals, gaskets,
"O" rings and service. That cost me $418 and $450 for the auto. And apparently according to GV autos its in good nick.
The auto and diff were split to get to the "O" replaced there.
This is the unit painted and ready to put into the trike. I made up a meshring gear cover.
The following pic is of the new tranny diff where the axles bolt to. Note the bolt on flange. Then the next pic is of the older tranny (might be
younger but its the original one in the trike) and note how there is no flange at all. So there are differences.
Bit odd. I thought they were all the same. By the way the two small holes are for an electronic speedo sender. I made up a new one on the new
tranny.
This final pic is of the tranny and the EA81 manifolds. I am retaining the SPFI manifold (seen here painted on the left) which is 6mm bigger in overal
diameter compared to the original manifold.
When I first installed the EA81 I had a 32/36 Weber carbie. This was ok and achieved around 30-34mpg. But it was sluggish. I was constantly using
lots of throttle to get the second throat opening. The auto didnt help here. So this time I've purchased a Weber 38/38 synchronic carb new. Both
throats open at the same time. Some people swear by them others say they chew too much fuel. The bonus is that both weber carbs use the same mount
footprint. So if its a guzzler the swap will happen.
THE ENGINE
The boys at Ausubaru have been great. Experience means everything. The cam will be a 16/56 with .235" lift. A 20/60 cam is better for higher revs.
I'm after high torque at low revs. The EA81 - if you check the list of Jap engines you'll find the EA81 has the lowest max torque point at 2400 rpm.
It's still no powerhouse especially hooked to an auto. But it has great reputation for reliability and long life some up to 450,000 kms.
A slight increase in compression is desired- better for torque. Standard is 8.7:1. Upon taking the heads off both head gaskets had small leaks so it
was time anyway to rebuild. EA71 pistons from earlier Subies are several thou higher on the crown and will raise comp to 9.0:1. SPFI pistons higher
still raising it to 9.5:1. And EJ20 pistons have the same bore but superior oil rings etc. (That info is a bit over the top for me but I tried).
My builder is to suss out all options. SPFI pistons from USA only etc. He pointed out that with that desired cam you wouldnt want to raise the
compression too much. EA81 lovers know that the heads have very few options to improve performance. So a slight port and polish and 3 step valve
grind is all we can do. I've left it in his hands. With superior breathing, large carbie jetted right, good exhaust and an auto that operates as it
should Tweety will be ready for many warm weather rides.
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tweety
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| posted on July 29th, 2014 at 05:30 PM |
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BIG PROBLEM!!!
I just realised the Differential housings are different.
Below is the new diff without mounting holesfor the frame bolts.
Then there is the old diff housing with the mounts.
Then there is the frame mounts in this pic.
What this means is that both auto box/diff assemblies are going to have to be taken to the auto shop. Both diffs split from the auto and swapped so I
have the old diff and diff housing in the new auto. drat!!!!
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Subarugears
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| posted on July 29th, 2014 at 09:10 PM |
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Why didn't you fit the SPFI instead of the carb?
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tweety
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 04:55 PM |
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The SPFI system worked but had its issues. Everytime I tested a sensor (MAF,Throttle, temp) they were faulty or not working in range. So everytime I
had to send away to USA and some sensors are expensive even from their junkyards.
In short I feel, after having the SPFI system on for several months, the system needs soemone with more knowledge of electronics, has the energy and
youth to work on it and the patience.
I've recently retired. I am going back to what I know- simple mechanical solutions like carb. I buy new, carbie being the weber 38/38 was purchased
new. Stress elimination is what is the objective. Stress- the reaosn for retiring early. Less lifting of the body to fiddle. Tweety is to get more
body mods as time goes by, to make our already comfy and warm existance even more so. Not ruling out woodgrain side body designs...
The SPFI is ideal is anyone is wanting to buy it. Minus the intake manifold. I've been working on cars all my life, Lotus's, Zephyrs etc its time to
stop lifting the bonnet...err...body.
SPFI ssytem less manifold (available from USA) $250 + postage suits ea82/81 manuals, spares etc
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vlad01
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 06:40 PM |
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I can't see how you managed to have problems with EFI let alone "stress free" with weber progressive, they got to be rated as one of the the worst
carbys, and i completely agree on that as I had experience with weber progressive, piece of shite!
im my whole experience with EFI, which been a large portion of my life. Only had personally a MAT sensor open circuit did not effect the running just
a CEL, couple of O2 sensors die but they have a finite life span and an ECU playing subtle funny games, but with on board diagnostics it makes fault
finding a piece of cake.
On the other hand, only few cars I had with carby, all had problems and worst was Lada and Escort which were my experience with weber progressive.
Only way I could get those damn things to start in winter was warming the carby with a hair drier 
best carby i found actually were stromberg in terms of setting and mostly forgetting.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Joel
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 06:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I can't see how you managed to have problems with EFI
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If you follow Tonys thread over on Ausubaru the fuel injection system was just electrical problem after problem, the down side of working with a
system that age and one that is not common in Aus unfortunatley meant swapping parts was no easy task.
A shame because it had such potential.
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Subarugears
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 08:49 PM |
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Yep and that is a very very old EFI system and not all that sophisticated (especially in terms of today's units). Fair enough.
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vlad01
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 08:54 PM |
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age shouldn't be a problem. Most of the stuff i work with is still 80s /early 90s tech with modern touch where needed and I among others in our
group find this is a sweet spot for EFI tech because the simplest vs most flexible ratio is the highest not to mention highly documented so info and
expertise are plentiful.
But then again suby are one of those obscure things that have their info well hidden to general public.
I even have access to alfa romeo tunes but not suby ones. but who has an alfa?? Still though to redo a whole EFI system, including loom and sensors
and connectors is very straight forward and relatively in expensive if you do it your self.
anyway, that said I had a type 3 with Bosch d jet. its like it was abandon because no one could figure out what was wrong.
15 min I worked out the problem and ordered new pump. Some more minor issues more, missing pump relay and the dizzy was out by some 30-40º.
Bamm! 1st go it started, one of the most reliable systems I owned.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 09:39 PM |
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Thanks guys for your understanding.
At 30 yo these SPFI systems were one of the early birds. As Joel mentioned I had heaps of posts on Ausubaru detailing the issues. Has Ausubaru guys
attend and ride around in the pass seat with wires hanging out all over trying to locate issues.
As for age I took out a throttle sensor. The tiny disk the 3 small arms rest on was totally worn from how many spins in its 25-30 year life? I was
lucky to have one contact from Canada send me another that he knew he had to test prior to purchase as "they pack up easily". An MAF was not working
correctly - go to Rockauto and look up EA82 MAF SPFI...$400 USD !!. Temp sensor- a rare beast if you can find one. Luckily mine was fine as you can
easily test it. Injector- purchased one from a subie friend that imported the throttle body for his LPG brumby cheap...try buying one from US.
$500+.
Anyway you cant compare horses with donkeys. Cant compare an Alfa with a Subaru etc. The weber I have is 38/38 not progressive but synchronic. I had a
32/36 progressive myself before supercharging and it was sluggish and second hand. Never again. My 38/38 cost $450 new from Weber performance
Mordialloc. If I want a 32/36 then a similar amount is ok.
I've messed with going outside the square too many times. In fact going synchronic is outside the square enough. But to go to a different brand of
carbie to what 95% of subaru owners go to from the stock Hitacki is messing too much.
I'm nearly 60yo. Knees arent so good. Havent got a shaggers back, more like a Lotus back lol, they are low cars and spent a decade working on the
buggers.
The ea82 SPFI I fitted to my trike was originally a kit. There is nothing wrong with it but it's purpose was to near eliminate toying with the engine
to achieve reliable pleasure times. It didnt do that. Carbie, engine 6 wires for dizzy, alt and oil pressure and kickdown...now that's smiple! It
will be garaged of course. I dont think I'll have problems going this way but appreciate your views
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vlad01
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| posted on July 30th, 2014 at 09:50 PM |
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ouch! MAF!
I cringe when ever i look at MAF based systems. MAP is so much easier to work with, tune and reliable.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on July 31st, 2014 at 10:41 AM |
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Vlad01. I concur.
My original MAF was definately faulty. So I ordered another one from Rockauto- a leading parts supplier in USA. It was under Subaru EA82 SPFI and had
the correct part number - every number and letter.
In the meantime I sent the old one away for checking hoping I could, for a small sum get a spare out of it.
The Rockauto refurbished one arrived hence placed it in a box and waited for another injector to come as well.
A few weeks passed. I then put it all together and found that the openings to the Rockauto MAF were about 3mm larger in diameter, small enough not to
notice, large enough to cause a concern. It also had a meshed intake which one could mistake as being a progressive upgrade to the original.
I made enquireis with ASMB Subies forums and found that the MAF wasnt off a Subaru. So email Rockauto- "sorry, its over 30 days- no return
possible". Even though it was listed under Subaru ea82 when in fact it was off a Nissan "truck" believed to be known as a Pathfinder model here.
Total loss $450 AUS
Got my old one back- not fixable. Found another at a wreckers in US- $200 worked correctly. Compared the two. It was understandable why Rockauto got
them mixed up- all numbers matched exactly EXCEPT on the Nissan one there was a number 3 barely seen just inside the bakerlight cap. You wouldnt look
for it. But they sold me the wrong part listed under the wrong car and should have refunded/allowed return. I embarked on a mission for several months
slamming Rockauto every time there was a chance.
That's cars for you. I mean take for example Triumph Stags. There was one restored on TV the other night- top show. Their workshop had every
conceivable tool at their disposal. But do you think they had on that a/ would fit onto one particular head bolt slightly hidden under part of the
head shape? and B/ tough enough to get a proper grip on the head of the bolt to undo it? What was the engine designer thinking? Certainly not
thinking of the poor buggar undoing that bolt.
Lotus engines bothered me just as much. Other cars that have slight differences with each month/year. After 40 years working on vehicles trying to
get used engines to run correctly not knowing what the insides were like in condition etc its time for rest time. I'm burned out.
Today I'm taking my old auto trans/diff to the auto trans place that did the work on the other one. I know it works well except engine over revs in
first gear when full throttle, likely an adjustment issue. New gaskets and seals etc. Then I'll use that for the trike and ponder on the very good
transaxle I have serviced with new seals sitting there out of a type 3, the one without the mounting holes in the diff housing.
In the end you have to laugh. Get the tranny in half way towards its home in the trike and sat there staring at the diff housing wondering where the
mounting holes were. My initial thought was that part of the housing was unboltable surrounding the torque converter but closer look saw it was a work
of art- all one piece that should one day be in an auto museum lol. Laugh now- didnt laugh then.
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vlad01
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| posted on July 31st, 2014 at 11:36 AM |
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This gives me a good idea.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on July 31st, 2014 at 11:43 PM |
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Without good ideas we would be only with women.
Does anyone know the automatic diff ratios of the 411/312 final drive - tried the net- limited infon all sites. And I assuem the 003 trans in 411/412
and type 3 are the same????????????
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vlad01
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| posted on August 1st, 2014 at 10:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tweety
Without good ideas we would be only with women.
Does anyone know the automatic diff ratios of the 411/312 final drive - tried the net- limited infon all sites. And I assuem the 003 trans in 411/412
and type 3 are the same????????????
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hahaha 
I think type 4 diff were slightly lower ratio compared to type 3.
Was just looking into suby EFI systems a bit more, geez they are odd balls compared to most cars. what the hell is a JECS type connector? they some
come crazy injectors thats for sure.
Only connectors I know of is EV1, USCAR and odd ball Delphi type connector.
My idea is maybe I could provide suby conversion harnesses? show car quality ones of course.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ACE76
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| posted on August 1st, 2014 at 11:44 AM |
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Final Drive ratio for the type 3 auto. "003" model is approx. 3.67 (Exact ratio is 9:33 = 3.6666repeating).
Don't know what the "type 4" (i.e. in Aust., Kombi of that time: '69 to '74?) version is.
ACE 30 & ACE 40 oil: specially formulated for your Air Cooled Engine...
Delivery free Outer Eastern Melb. & Dandenong Ranges.
from$19 for 2.5L (spot-on for 1 fill, re-use bottle to measure), or $29 for 5L (2 fills)
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vlad01
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| posted on August 1st, 2014 at 02:14 PM |
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317203
that might help
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on August 3rd, 2014 at 12:22 AM |
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thanks for that link.
If thats true, that the type 4 sedan had 3.9:1 then a few trike owners woukld seek out the type 3 diff inards into the type 4 housing to drop the revs
at 100kph about 200rpm.
The auto with 295/50r15 tyres runs at 3200 rpm at 100kph. This is too high for a lightweight trike. Drop it by 200rpm then a further 150rpm with the
275/60r15 tyres and you have a decent drop in cruising revs.
For me its all too much trouble and money.
Besides being an older fart I dont go over 80kph....lol....and risk future fines according to some haha
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tweety
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| posted on August 17th, 2014 at 06:08 PM |
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original auto trans with new seals etc is in situ.
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tweety
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| posted on September 4th, 2014 at 09:45 PM |
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Bit of progress. A friend made up the adapter to go between the larger SPFI manifold and the 38/38 Weber synchromic carbie. The opening is more than
double that of the ea81 manifold.
Reconditioned engine is to come in about 2 weeks. It is being built for towing, high torque at low revs. And the third pic is the stock manifold
compared to the SPFI. 6mm bigger diameter
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vlad01
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| posted on September 6th, 2014 at 08:57 AM |
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nice work!
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on September 12th, 2014 at 08:35 PM |
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thanks Vlad01
the manifold and adapter is at the engine builders so he can mount them on the recoed engine. as you likely know when shaving heads the manifold bolt
holes might need to be ovalised a tad.
should have it back within a week. pics to come then
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tweety
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| posted on October 6th, 2014 at 09:57 PM |
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Ok some news. My EA81 is at the balancers getting its balance of course.
The block was a mystery. The engine builder found that on one side of the Subie block had 11 thou clearance from the top of the piston to the block
face and on the other side 30 thou. 19 thou difference.
So it's been milled. His calculation revealled 9.5:1 compression will come. Stock pistons oversize. torquey cam for low revs.
And some bling is here. there valve covers were stipped by me and sent off for copper then double chrome coating. At under $200 the pair - worth it
for a trike with an open engine.
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tweety
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| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 08:11 PM |
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Got my ea81 engine back. rebored now 1820cc. 9.5:1 CR, balanced, new torquey cam, new everything.
Now waiting for the intake manifold because the heads and block have been shaved therefore moving the intake mounting holes closer together. Another
engineer has the manifold now and he has to ream the holes 2.5mm each end towards the other end, allowing the manifold to line up the bolt holes.
Engine is in and ready now for the manifold. Porsche radiator to purchase after xmas. radiator size for the 911/996 "centre " radiator is
620x170x41mm 41mm in/out of the radiator means reducers needed to fit the 32mm hoses.
Getting there.
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vlad01
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| posted on November 3rd, 2014 at 11:29 PM |
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geez that engine sure came up clean!
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on November 5th, 2014 at 04:20 PM |
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Yes it did. it was washed and painted "clear" by the engine builder.
The engine is in now. Waiting on manifold.
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vlad01
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| posted on November 5th, 2014 at 05:29 PM |
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I bet it will go a whole lot better with even CRs all round and a better cam too.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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tweety
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| posted on November 6th, 2014 at 02:42 PM |
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Yes it should .
Seeing as its hooked up to a type 3 auto I prefer low down torque so the "punch" is at low revs. I had a weber 32/36 prgressive a few years ago and
was disappointed. I had to rev the engine too much to get that punch- the second throat to open.
I've put up with s/hand engine all my life- never got one fully recoed. I've had around 90 cars. Including 8 VW's. 2x types 3 (fastie and
squareback, beetle , Tiguan and Golf series one diesel and the trike was a 1916). Am 58yo. This engine will see me out. Hence doing it properly. The
SPFI might have been ok but was complex and the wiring and sensors were 30yo and costly to renew....to another s/hand piece which is a gamble. I'm
happy to go with the 38/38 weber synchromic, another boost at low revs. in fact that new carbie going on will b the magic in the new arrangment. But
it will need jetting.
Some say the 38/38 suitable for the Jeep/Holdens and Ford 6's is too big. But all the reading I've done say otherwise. I mean they use them in
Datsum 1200's. And owners swear by them.
In fact if I owned my old 1916 reckon one of them would suit??
In the meantime I'm wondering if the hole for my old O2 sensor (when I ahd SPFI ) on the exhaust could ouse anothe rO2 sensor and use it to guage
correct mixture for this engine. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
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vlad01
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| posted on November 7th, 2014 at 08:16 PM |
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Nothing beats have a properly rebuilt, blueprinted and configured engine for a older vehicle.
I haven't had any of my car's engine rebuilt but I have picked up some virtually new old ones and it gets me excited to hopefully get one built by
Duggan's balancing in Melbourne next year. A mild one but blueprinted and balanced to perfection!
Sometime you get lucky with an old car that had that wednesday built engine with perfect balance though. I recently picked up an old car like this and
its the smoothest thing i have ever driven, smoother than my old boss's passat, kluger and his new audi and the dozens of new hire cars I have driven
over the years. And its old and has an engine layout thats inherently out of balance.
anyway, yes you can fit a wideband and gauge to your exhaust bung and jet your carbs to get the right AFR. Cam and engine configuration will alter
your AFR.
I found with tuning EFI engines that even a simple sports exhaust and extractors on totally stock engine can make them breath 10-20% more and run very
lean as of result. Like 17-20:1 AFR lean!! So retuning is necessary and critical.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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powerband
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| posted on November 8th, 2014 at 10:01 AM |
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Tweety PM sent. Paul
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tweety
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 460
Threads: 68
Registered: February 26th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Strathbogie Vic
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
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| posted on November 18th, 2014 at 08:56 PM |
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I didnt get your PM paul.
Engien is installed and complete except for the Porsche radiator (911/996 Centre type 620mm x 170mm x 41mm) 3 x 6inch thermatic fans. All to be
purchased in February (or I dont get Chrissy pressies).
Here is one end of the ea82 SPFI manifold now reamed inward by 2.5mm (each end meaning 5mm total) to allow ofr the shaved block and heads.
oops
Do any of you guys have tips on first start up? Got some from the Ausubaru guys. This engine has been rebored, new cam, brand new oil pump, etc. So
I presume the oil pressure light going out would be the most important thing yes?
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