| [ Total Views: 1302 | Total Replies: 13 | Thread Id: 110298 ] |
|
|
 Syngear
Casual Dubber
Posts: 27
Threads: 12
Registered: December 6th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Manchester
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 20th, 2015 at 09:40 PM |
|
|
Syngear Classic Drive System
- low energy belt system
- less energy consumption than poly-v-belt
- crankshaft disc without groove made of cast nylon
- steel flange with oil centrifuge groove better than original type
- very good concentricity
- for temperature up to 120°C
- low heat conduction enables a low temperature operation of the belt
- easy removing of belt without tools in 3 seconds qualifies for 1/4 mile race
- good solution for aslant running belt
- video clip of operation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xQOkyuS5sY
- for typ 1 engines with DC and AC generators
- full set with steel flange, adaptors, cast nylon disc and belt for 95 AUD
- all parts made in Germany
- top seller in Germany
- we ship from our depot in Germany world wide
- price includes shipping as small parcel
- use shop http://www.syngear.co.uk
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on December 21st, 2015 at 12:00 PM |
|
|
So now you drive on the face of the belt reducing the contact area instead of its intended vee, would not be capable of transmitting the power, what
happens when the nylon reaches a temperature above 120 degrees C due to belt slip. I could possibly understand your logic if the material was
aluminium or steel, I am a machinist and have made many item for my for cars over the years and there is nothing wrong with the vee belt to start
with.
|
|
|
Newt
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 478
Threads: 82
Registered: March 1st, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Born 10 minutes late & never caught up.
|
| posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 11:10 AM |
|
|
Interestingly, they do do a steel belt option as well.
I ponder if that would give the required amount of belt slip?
Newt
It is as it is - If you didnt enjoy today, you've missed the opportunity.
|
|
|
Sunset Garage
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 213
Threads: 18
Registered: February 3rd, 2010
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 12:56 PM |
|
|
1. How do you adjust belt tension?
2. Do you still need to adjust belt tension with this system?
3. You design a completely new crank pulley for the new style belt and choose to simply adapt the V-Groove pulley? It may work, but looks a little
dubious & half hearted. If you made a matching Generator/Alternator pulley specifically for the belt it would look more resolved.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on December 22nd, 2015 at 02:58 PM |
|
|
Same as standard, it uses the same belt running on the inner flat surface.
|
|
|
Syngear
Casual Dubber
Posts: 27
Threads: 12
Registered: December 6th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Manchester
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 08:24 AM |
|
|
Dear Aircooled Community,
the Syngear Classic Drive System using a nylon disc without groove and a stock v-belt was found per accident.
Since 2009 we at Syngear Ltd. have been running tests with our VW beetle for qualifying a steel belt made of very thin strip steel members fixed by
arc shaped flat springs. The VW Beetle is just the demonstrator. The belt can be assembled by hand without any tooling. Because the belt members look
like razor blades we call the Drive System "Syngear Razor Blade Drive System". You will find a youtube video clip when entering this term.
The steel belt broke at least 1000 times. This is real life testing. For coming home we used a stock belt and put it on the two nylon discs. So we
learned that the material pair rubber-nylon shows some interesting results: there is enough friction also without groove and there is no debris. The
notched stock belt is running on the nylon surface like a runner wearing rubber shoes on a nylon street. What is also very funny is the fact that
within 3 seconds you can remove and install the belt (not during operation like in the famous youtube vidoe clip).
This configuration operates also like the steel belt with a very low energy consumption caused by deformation, which is much lower than caused by the
wide spread poly-v-belt. To our understanding the use of the notched v-belt will bring better operation performance (lower energy consumption by
deformation) than the poly-v-belt. Until now the automotve industry has not understood it. This is main stream behaviour.
The message is: the notched rubber belt running on a nylon surface without groove shows no debris, operates at very low temperatures (because of the
low heat conduction rate of nylon), needs less energy than any other known configuration and can be removed by hand within seconds.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 10:44 AM |
|
|
The use of the vee belt in this application is incorrect as it does not operate as designed, I cannot see how a vee belt running on its narrow flat
face can transmit the power, if it slips as it will with any form of horse power increase it will raise the temperature well above the safe operating
temperature of the nylon, as you stated at 120 degrees c, engine block temperature in Australia could easily reached this without much effort, add the
belt slip because of the design and you will deform the nylon, I have machined this form of nylon many time and it is not a problem to heat it in the
lathe and melt the material. I think I will stick with the standard notched vee belt running in top and bottom billet pulleys, as system that does the
job without any issues.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 978
Threads: 50
Registered: March 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Midwest, Westoz.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Old School Volksies!
|
| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 03:22 PM |
|
|
On the shady sheltered side of my front porch a few summers ago, it is not unusual at all..........
|
|
|
Syngear
Casual Dubber
Posts: 27
Threads: 12
Registered: December 6th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Manchester
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 07:18 PM |
|
|
Dear vwo60,
This summer we had in Germany also environmental temperatures above 40°C which resulted in engine case temperatures of above 100°C. For the belt
running on the nylon surface this was not a problem, because the contact temperature measured was just about 60°C because of the low heat
conductivity of nylon.
We tested the Syngear Drive System near Manchester at a 150 Horse Power Type 1 Engine. The problem was not the lower disc made of nylon, the problem
was the upper disc made of steel coated by a new zinc chromate layer. The tester was not patient enough to wait some seconds until this zinc chromate
layer was removed but drove the engine with full speed. The result was: the belt was burnt on its side walls. the nylon contact surface showed no
damage.
Nobody says the common system with grooved disc and v-belt is not working. The message is: this rendez-vous process between belt and groove causes
additional friction.
(The engine shown on your image looks very professiona!)
Aircooled greetings
Ludwig Dierl
Syngear Engineering
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 978
Threads: 50
Registered: March 17th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Midwest, Westoz.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Old School Volksies!
|
| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 10:23 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Syngear
This summer we had in Germany also environmental temperatures above 40°C which resulted in engine case temperatures of above 100°C.
|
Ouch! I bet that hurt!
Interesting info, thank you.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on December 28th, 2015 at 08:11 AM |
|
|
Minimum friction of the original system is not that much, the fan takes considerable power to drive and you are running the belt on the flat on the
inside , the belt in this case is being used for something it is no designed to do. good luck with the product but I do not think it is a long term
solution. This is what my experience tells me with 40 years in all types of power transmission in industry
|
|
|
karmann141
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 485
Threads: 48
Registered: August 27th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Carindale - Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on December 28th, 2015 at 09:29 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Syngear
Dear vwo60,
This summer we had in Germany also environmental...........
(The engine shown on your immage looks very professiona!)
Aircooled greetings
Ludwig Dierl
Syngear Engineering
|
The pictured engine is Vwo60 's 2.4L engine in his Karmann Ghia
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
|
|
|
Syngear
Casual Dubber
Posts: 27
Threads: 12
Registered: December 6th, 2015
Member Is Offline
Location: Manchester
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 28th, 2015 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
Dear vwo60,
your Karmann Ghia looks really great!
It is our basic principle at Syngear to offer products only if they had withstood an hard qualification process. We finished prototyping after 50,000
miles with extreme environmental conditions.
The belt and the disc showed no wear. For now about 50 systems are running in Europe with a total mileage of about 500,000 miles with no failures
reported.
Aircooled Greetings
Ludwig Dierl
Syngear Engineering
|
|
|
fish26
A.k.a.: benito
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 903
Threads: 38
Registered: July 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Ken awesome
|
| posted on December 28th, 2015 at 09:32 PM |
|
|
I would recommend a back to back dyno hp testing same engine, two different systems
bitten by the bug..........several times
|
|
|
