| [ Total Views: 1462 | Total Replies: 26 | Thread Id: 111398 ] |
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 Todd68
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 04:56 PM |
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self centering
Need help with self centering on 1968 type1.
So far i have replaced tie rod ends, steering dampener, steering box and had a wheel alignment done at the shop. I did find online the specifications
for a 68 type1 toe in, camber and caster but they said they align it to 0 toe in for WA roads. After all this it still wont self center.
Does anyone have any suggestions i could try? Does anyone recommend a shop i could take it to, I live in Karratha WA.
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AA003
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 05:01 PM |
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Get a wheel alignment from someone that is not an idiot.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 06:03 PM |
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Hi
1968 1500 beetle specifications for front where alignment CAMBER ANGLE [to chassis number 115 979 202]
o
0 40' -+ 30'
CAMBER ANGLE [from chassis number 116 000 001]
o
0 30' -+20'
o o
caster angle 3 20' +- 1
TOE IN 18' TO 40' angular minutes = .047 with 15 inch tyres..
Naturally You won't get self centering with parallel steering.. and modern Wheel alignment machines show all aspects of the front end so anything
can be moved or aligned.... and there are NO special wheel alignment specifications for Western Australia...
I have heard many complaints about wheel alignments being done incorrectly and expensive tyres being badly worn prematurely....
I can remember being told many years ago that they adjusted the castor on My vehicle [non Vw] so it steers easier and self centers... etc..
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Todd68
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 06:42 PM |
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Thx AA003 and Lee
Good call I will ring another shop and see if they can do it.
Chassis number is 118710875 1600cc and 195/60/15 on the front
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vwo60
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 08:24 PM |
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Volkswagen made castor shims to reduce this effect, I run them on all my type one based vehicles, but if you increase the castor , you increase the
steering effort required at low speed. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VW-BEETLE-Aluminium-Caster-Shims-Pair-22-2815-/322...
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 09:09 PM |
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Get the car moving. It won't self centre if you are standing still. lol
From your ole' mate Jeff
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on August 7th, 2016 at 10:34 PM |
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Is there nothing You don't know Jeff???
I remember a true story about a little old lady back in the early 60's told the mechanic that Her Beetle didn't stay in the centre of the road when
She let go of the steering wheel...
The mechanic went out on a straight bit of road and the car drove perfectly at 30 MPH NO hands... The lady drove away in Her beetle and was soon back
complaining to the mechanic.... So He went out and tried it at 40MPH No hands... perfect...
So He told the lady that it was perfect at 40 MPH...
She said Yes it's OK at 40 MPH but when I'm going down a big hill near home and I'm doing 70MPH She said its all over the road NO Hands.....
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Todd68
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| posted on August 9th, 2016 at 06:54 PM |
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hi Guys
Car is booked in tomorrow and they will redo the wheel alignment. Will let you know if that fixes the problem.
Today i was talking to a guy who rebuilt an old ford model T hot rod, who had similar problem his solution was to loosen off the tie rod end nuts that
attach to the steering arm half a turn?? question is should those two tie rod end nuts be done up tight on my VW or be backed off, currently all my
tie rod ends are done up tight?
Todd
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 vw54
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| posted on August 9th, 2016 at 07:38 PM |
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All front end nuts / bolts to be done up tight unless you want to kill yourself
You should have 1 or 2 mm toe in so the car tracks I don't know why WA roads would be different to the rest of AUSSIE
Is the front end lowered or narrowed that will make a difference
Are the Ball joints good you need to load them up to see if good or bad all other bits replaced
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HappyDaze
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| posted on August 9th, 2016 at 07:53 PM |
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Dave, please correct your mistake of "1 or 2 degrees"...that would be about 5 to 10 mm.
We don't want anyone to kill themselves.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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AA003
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| posted on August 9th, 2016 at 09:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
Dave, please correct your mistake of "1 or 2 degrees"...that would be about 5 to 10 mm.
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But that's for NSW roads Greg.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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modnrod
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| posted on August 9th, 2016 at 09:22 PM |
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Most of our roads are straight, so you only need to turn every 1/2 hour anyway..........
I have always used about 1mm toe-in, a heap of caster, and 0.5deg LH neg camber with 0.25deg neg camber RH.
Surprisingly enough, that seems to work well enough for most of the cars I've driven, even those funny thingys with engines in the front.
Most of the old stuff I've had that doesn't self-centre usually involves a binding or sticky steering box that needs lube or adjustment, or lack of
lube in the joints.
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vw54
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| posted on August 10th, 2016 at 07:16 AM |
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yes I meant mm you need some toe in otherwise they wander
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Todd68
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| posted on August 15th, 2016 at 12:49 PM |
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well guys still no return to center, specs were not exact to how i asked but apparently they are within the limit.
total toe +1.6
half toe +1.6mm +0.1mm
Camber +00°50" -00°50"
Max diff +01°40"
Caster +02°40" +03°20"
Max diff -00°40"
King Pin Angle +23°20" +23°00"
suggestion from tyre shop was to remove steering dampener and try and eliminate that as possible problem, i have done this and still no return to
center.
Front end has NOT been lowered or altered 195/60/15 tyres on front with front jacked up it moves free left and right. Ball joints checked when
inspected and are ok steering box new, new tie rod ends and steering column was removed and checked its straight.
Any suggestions as what to check next before i decide to tow it 1700km's down to the city and get the Fremantle VW to try sort it out.
:/ suggestions please..
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Todd68
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| posted on August 15th, 2016 at 03:33 PM |
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Ive managed to find a mechanic in town who will have a look at it on monday, ill post any results.
Todd
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vw54
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| posted on August 15th, 2016 at 07:51 PM |
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is there any oil / molly grease in the steering box thick n gooie lubricant
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hulbyw
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| posted on August 15th, 2016 at 07:58 PM |
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Fairly wide front tyres. What width rims are you running and what is your front tyre pressure?
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Todd68
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| posted on August 16th, 2016 at 01:58 PM |
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vw54 the steering box is new so i have not pulled it apart to check. I have adjusted the top screw for the steering wheel play which is about an inch,
I have not tried to adjust the hex nut one at the front of the steering box as i don't have the tool to do it could this be the problem? I can get
mechanic to check Monday.
hulbyw rims are 5.5" tyre pressure is 32psi.
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vw54
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| posted on August 16th, 2016 at 05:27 PM |
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there is a filler plug on the top of the steering box undo and see if theres any oily / grease stuff inside
if not get some molly grease and a gearbox oil mix together to a slurry
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vduboy
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| posted on August 16th, 2016 at 07:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Todd68
vw54 the steering box is new so i have not pulled it apart to check. I have adjusted the top screw for the steering wheel play which is about an inch,
I have not tried to adjust the hex nut one at the front of the steering box as i don't have the tool to do it could this be the problem? I can get
mechanic to check Monday.
hulbyw rims are 5.5" tyre pressure is 32psi.
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That doesn't mean anything mate, I have had a few new ones from various places that I have had to fill up.
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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hulbyw
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| posted on August 17th, 2016 at 12:22 PM |
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I would have thought 32psi in the front of a Beetle to be a fair bit too much. Doubt it is the cause of the lack of self centreing though. There are
threads on here about tyre pressures and it is a bit like asking what engine oil to use. Everyone has their own opinion, and they are all right.
Changing pressures won't cost anything so perhaps try 26psi. It will at least make the ride more comfortable and also give you a longer contact patch
on the road, together with a change in steering "feel". If you don't like these changes just pump them up again.
Cheers
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 matberry
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| posted on August 17th, 2016 at 10:56 PM |
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front tyre pressure should be about 20 psi, factory recommendation 17-18psi
I bet yo have new ball joints fitted, many these days need to be fitted by someone VERY experienced to get the correct crush. Most these days are
produced with larger diameter to give a tight fit into the arm, but more often than not they are too tight which causes the balljoint to bind, too
much friction and it won't self centre, also the suspension will be noticeable stiffer. You can drop tie rod ends and determine which is the culprit,
sometimes they come good with some bumpy road work outs, but this is a hopeful remedy.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on August 18th, 2016 at 03:28 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Todd68
hi Guys
Car is booked in tomorrow and they will redo the wheel alignment. Will let you know if that fixes the problem.
Today i was talking to a guy who rebuilt an old ford model T hot rod, who had similar problem his solution was to loosen off the tie rod end nuts that
attach to the steering arm half a turn?? question is should those two tie rod end nuts be done up tight on my VW or be backed off, currently all my
tie rod ends are done up tight?
Todd
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New Tie Rod ends can be very tight and the rubber boots also playing a part in the stiffness. I believe the tie rod nuts should be tight otherwise
the tie rod end is turning inside the arm hole... NOT GOOD...
they should be done up so ONLY the tie rod moves as they were meant to.. You can try squiring some grease inside the narrow part of the boot so it
turns easily. I have some boots that stick to the metal and don't want to turn...
Tyre pressure in the front... 18psi makes the front wheels difficult to turn, 22-24 makes the front suspension harder, but makes the steering lighter
as the tyre tread raises above the road surface slightly.... 26-28 more so... very light steering... not much traction braking in the wet!!!
cheers
LEE
I keep getting the shudders every time I think a NON VW mechanic is touching YOUR BEETLE .... YIKES
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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grumble
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| posted on August 18th, 2016 at 07:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
front tyre pressure should be about 20 psi, factory recommendation 17-18psi
I bet yo have new ball joints fitted, many these days need to be fitted by someone VERY experienced to get the correct crush. Most these days are
produced with larger diameter to give a tight fit into the arm, but more often than not they are too tight which causes the balljoint to bind, too
much friction and it won't self centre, also the suspension will be noticeable stiffer. You can drop tie rod ends and determine which is the culprit,
sometimes they come good with some bumpy road work outs, but this is a hopeful remedy.
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i agree with Matt,I have been running 6" wheels on my 61 Ghia since 1967 with 20 front and 26 rear with no problems, you sid you have adjusted the
screw to give 1" free play. Was this adjusted with the wheels off the ground? Normal adjustment is gone with the wheels off the ground and the
steering wheel should be able to spin with 1 finger.
If this is all correct the vehicle should steer and track well. Another factor which will affect the self centreing is that the box was centred and
does not have incorrect length tie rods which has been known to happen,this puts the box off centre and if it is adjusted in this position the
steering will not self centre.
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Todd68
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| posted on August 23rd, 2016 at 06:19 PM |
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GOOD NEWS my vw passed inspection, i took it to a different workshop who also did inspections. They looked over the steering issue checking all the
usual faults and couldn't spot anything that would cause the problem, took it for a drive and the "old" fella said she's a great car mate drives
well done a great job on the restoration, parked it up and said he will pass it. he did give me the number for another wheel alignment place in town so i may go there at a later date.
I did reduce tyre pressures to 26psi, added some gearbox oil grease mixture to the steering box and sprayed more lubricant on all the moving parts.
Maybe being new with a bit more driving it will free up either way happy days
2 1/2 yrs rebuilding its all paid off, another beetle on the road cheers for all your suggestions a great site.
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vwo60
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| posted on August 23rd, 2016 at 07:15 PM |
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As I said previously , vw made the shims to increase the castor, this will help self centre the steering.
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Todd68
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| posted on August 26th, 2016 at 01:01 AM |
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Thx will look into that vwo60
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