| [ Total Views: 2566 | Total Replies: 26 | Thread Id: 113172 ] |
|
|
 noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 6th, 2018 at 03:42 PM |
|
|
Disc Brake Conversion help in Sydney
Hi, Is there anyone of you VW gurus, in Sydney (inner west area) willing to have a look at the disc brakes on my 1965 Beetle. They have been converted
and using the Rod Penrose conversion kit with new MC and most of the lines replaced as well as new rear drum cylinders and brake fluid reservoir but
the pedal still goes flat to the floor even after multiple bleedings. The brakes work when the pedal is flat to the floor but I just can;t get it to
be where it should be.
Any assistance or advice would be greatly received.
Cheers in advance
Nick
|
|
|
 vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 6th, 2018 at 04:50 PM |
|
|
Has the push rod free play rod been adjusted correctly
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on April 7th, 2018 at 09:34 AM |
|
|
Power bleed the system, It will fix the problem if everything else is alright.
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 8th, 2018 at 07:11 AM |
|
|
Rod Penrose conversion kit with new MC
What size is the bore of the MC and what size are the pistons in calipers
this is Front discs only the rears are still drums ???
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 11:10 AM |
|
|
The Rod Penrose kit is this one http://rodpenroseracing.com.au/vw-5-x-205-kits/1453-wide-5-5-x-205-front-disc...
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
The set-up is disc brakes set up front and original drums on back. I have replaced the cylinders in the back drums and also the brake fluid reservoir
and all the lines to all brakes except the MC to rear brake area lines. (the lines to the rear brakes from where the original lines come out of the
body have been replaced.)
Do you think it is the push rod due to the bore size difference?
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 11:13 AM |
|
|
The master cylinder that is included in this kit is the Bus master. This has a 22mm bore apparently. The stock Bug master, up until 1964 had a 19mm
bore and for 65-66 it had a 17mm bore. I am assuming mine is the 17mm as it is a 1965 1300.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 12:39 PM |
|
|
Power bleed the system
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 01:36 PM |
|
|
Hi, I have already power bled the system and the brake was still pretty much hitting the floor before the calipers stopped the discs and drums
rotating.
|
|
|
silver
Veteran Volks Folk
Dangerous when poked
Posts: 2169
Threads: 162
Registered: December 8th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: In 2 Minds
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 06:16 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vw54
Has the push rod free play rod been adjusted correctly
|
check the push rod length!
Keeping it real !
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 06:42 PM |
|
|
OK so its 22mm MC which should be good for discs 3mm over stock size 68 and on
check the pushrod free play and make sure it fits the piston correctly
Did you replace all the rubber flex hoses ??
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 07:19 PM |
|
|
If there is an issue with the front calipers retracting you can fit residual check valves in the lines.
|
|
|
curvedscreen
Learner Dubber
Posts: 11
Threads: 1
Registered: January 26th, 2014
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 9th, 2018 at 07:51 PM |
|
|
A couple of other things you might want to try Nick is that the bleeder nipples are at the top of the calipers and maybe isolate the front and rear
brakes by gently clamping the rubber lines and see what happens
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 10th, 2018 at 12:51 PM |
|
|
Thanks guys.. I replaced all the hoses to all 4 wheels and the front metal lines as well as the reservoir to MC hose.
I will check the push rod as I get the feeling it is too small at the moment but have never adjusted or replaced one before.
All 4 wheels lock up when brake is flat to the floor I just can't get the brake to work like normal with an inch or so free play before brakes take
hold.
I'll try again when I can.
Thanks again for the tips.
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 10th, 2018 at 06:24 PM |
|
|
The push rod when you press on the brake pedal should have about 20 to 25 mm of free play
You will feel it hitting the piston by hand use a 13mm spanner and some multi grips to adjust
make sure carpet and mats are out of the way
|
|
|
hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
23 Windows of Awesome
48's and straight cuts
Posts: 5079
Threads: 116
Registered: April 17th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Nambucca Valley NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: Couldn't care less
|
| posted on April 11th, 2018 at 06:04 AM |
|
|
Adjusted the rear shoes up?
|
|
|
Menangler
A.k.a.: Dave Becker
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1991
Threads: 309
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: South Coast NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 11th, 2018 at 01:35 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by curvedscreen
A couple of other things you might want to try Nick is that the bleeder nipples are at the top of the calipers and maybe isolate the front and rear
brakes by gently clamping the rubber lines and see what happens
|
Good advice, easily over looked,
I have had to take calipers off and bleed them with the bleed nipples pointing up, as when bolted to the mounts they were not quiet at the top and air
was getting trapped making the pedal spongy, if you do this pack the pads out the same thickness as the disc or you'll pop out a piston.
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.
 |
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 12th, 2018 at 01:33 PM |
|
|
Thanks to you all for your advice. This will be my weekend project so if there is anything else I should look at in addition to the above please add
it to the list:
The drum shoes have been adjusted as they should so the drum turns by hand when the pedal is not depressed but I can feel the resistance of the shoe
on the inner drum.
I will look at the pushrod scenario first and then go from there.
I have 3 weeks before the pink slip becomes a required blue slip instead so I am keen to get this finished.
Thanks again
|
|
|
cnfabo
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1353
Threads: 140
Registered: April 15th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 12th, 2018 at 04:12 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by noblenick
Thanks to you all for your advice. This will be my weekend project so if there is anything else I should look at in addition to the above please add
it to the list:
The drum shoes have been adjusted as they should so the drum turns by hand when the pedal is not depressed but I can feel the resistance of the shoe
on the inner drum.
I will look at the pushrod scenario first and then go from there.
I have 3 weeks before the pink slip becomes a required blue slip instead so I am keen to get this finished.
Thanks again
|
I haven't read the whole thread but make sure handbrake cables are adjusted enough too... I had a problem bleeding brakes once, me and my mates were
scratching each other's heads.. Turns out cables could have been tightened up some more....
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 14th, 2018 at 04:38 PM |
|
|
Hi all,
So I made progress with the brake push rod by adjusting it however it needed adjusting almost all the way to able to have the brake pedal work as it
should.
This left it looking quite precarious so I backed it off a little and then started the bleeding scenario again.
I power bled the system all but the new passenger front disc brake bled nicely. This one seems to go on for ages and still has some bubbles in the
line.
The pedal now travels almost to the floor again.
The handbrake is nicely adjusted.
The car stops nicely but the pedal is almost to the floor with the push rod pretty much maxed out.
Can you buy longer push rod anywhere as this is a 22mm bore Master cylinder and the pedal and push rod are originals from a 17mm bore MC?
If anyone is in Sydney area and fancies having a crack at this for some $ or beers let me know as I think I am close.
Cheers
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 14th, 2018 at 07:22 PM |
|
|
You could get some 8mm Booker rod from Bunnings to make a new rod or you could cut down a 8mm bolt and fit inside the piston and have the original
rod sit on top of it it carnt fall out will act like a spacer
however something isn't right the original should still fit and be long enough
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8621
Threads: 556
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on April 17th, 2018 at 06:59 PM |
|
|
If your push rod is too short move your pedals closer to the bulkhead, they are adjustable
back off the handbrake and only adjust it after the rear shoes are adjusted properly
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 22nd, 2018 at 03:12 PM |
|
|
So have you found the problem Let us know what happened
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on April 26th, 2018 at 05:55 PM |
|
|
Did you solve the problem
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8621
Threads: 556
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on April 27th, 2018 at 04:56 PM |
|
|
are they VW calipers? What size pistons do they use? Ive rub 4 spot Porsche brakes all round with a stock 19 mm MC
|
|
|
noblenick
Casual Dubber
Posts: 28
Threads: 6
Registered: August 9th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Inner West Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 30th, 2018 at 10:48 AM |
|
|
Hi Guys,
I haven't completed the task yet but will let you know when I have as you have all been very helpful.
Cheers
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on May 9th, 2018 at 08:17 PM |
|
|
Any luck with the Brakes
|
|
|
