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 Andy
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 10:07 AM |
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Type 1 motor oil leak 1600TP
Ok, I have Brazilian 1600 twin port motor with low miles I plan to put in my beetle. I have never had it running, but there is a bit of oil coming
from behind the flywheel. I decided to replace the flywheel seal and o'ring just to be safe.
The existing seal and o'ring look good as new with no oil around it. It appears the oil is weaping from the plug at the end of the cam shaft.
SO, is there anything I can do to stop the leak???? and no, I don't want to split the case to fix it!!
Andy :thumb
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 10:27 AM |
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Replace it with a jap motor?  You know you want to.
You could try screwing a big wood screw into the welsh plug, and then using that to yank the plug out. Then buy a new one, apply some gasket goo and
jam the new plug in there. Don't jam it too far or the camshaft will wear through it and you'll have another leak.
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Andy
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 11:32 AM |
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Jap crap, you make me laugh
I prefer to spend my week ends under the bonnet (boot lid?) of old Germans cars in an effort to keep them on the road :o
According to the manual, the original plug had a ridge in it and can only be assembled while the case is split. I assumed the Brazilian motors were
the same???
I was wondering more along the lines a sealant over the top that might help. I’d assume silicon will only stop it leaking for a very short time
before the leak returned.
Andy :thumb
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 Bizarre
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 11:53 AM |
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Andy
i think the question is WHY is it leaking there. Has the cam got plan and worn against it.
You could "try" and pop the old one out and get a new cam plug, glue it up and "whack" it back in the case.
You might risk damaging the case.
Real bugger - but the best way would be to split the case
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 12:12 PM |
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hmmm, a ridge hey? That would make sense, to stop the oil pressure shooting it out.
Yank the old one out, and if you have a fancy tap set, screw an allen head grub screw in there.
If the leak has oil pressure behind it then you probably won't be able to patch it with silicone very easily. Maybe some metal putty stuff if
your lucky.
Jab motor would be easier. You know you loved the joy ride in the Baja, and it makes you want the same trouble free smoothness
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Brad
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 12:21 PM |
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mmm
If it is leaking there then I bet your cam bearings are stuffed.
Just split it, do it right and enjoy the driving experience. or run it like it is and pull it apart in a few months for another new clutch plate.
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Andy
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 01:13 PM |
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Blue, I don't know the answer to that one. If the cam was pushing against it, I'd guess there would be some visible damage rather than a
slight weap. It's worth considering though.
As it's a very low mileage motor, I think I will be more inclined to leave it and see what happens rather than strip down an otherwise almost new
motor.
Wes, Thats what I thought, any sealant would eventually see pressure and leak anyway.
Your definitely right. I did LOVE the joy ride. One of my Best I must admit, and that includes a fang in a merc 450SL. I’m a little too lasy for a
project like that though, if I wanted jap crap, I’d just buy the jap car and be done with it :P
Thanks Brad, now your scaring me. Brazilian motors are meant to be good right? Your advice might be best, run it for a little while and then pull it
appart. If it is cam bearings I'm sure I will hear it once it is running. If the leak doesn't leave a mark on the garage floor, I'll
leave it alone.
I suppose I know what I wanted, there's no easy fix without damaging the case or splitting it.
:thumb
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Brad
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 01:22 PM |
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Well
Now I have scared you. Ask yourself why is it there ? Only a few options :
1 - Needed for casting the case
2- Needed to put some sort of guage thing in to set up the case.
3- Designed to leak and piss you off
4- Not importnat so glug it up and get out and drive.
Just mix up some magic compound and fill the hole. From memory it isn't there to do bugger all anyway. Probably been weeping since day dot.
Is it leaking or weeping ?
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 vw54
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 01:24 PM |
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As Brad said why is it leaking sounds like the thrust bearing on the cam shaft have gone.
The only way to fix properly is to rebuild.
You could try standing the engine on the pully end so all the oil drains away for a day or so the degrease the area,,, n ruff up with some emery paper
to allow so 5 minute araldite to bond correctly, wash down with prepsol to degrease
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 02:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Andy
Brazilian motors are meant to be good right?
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ummm, never bought a motor, but Brazilian parts are crap quality.
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Andy
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 04:08 PM |
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Hmmm.... Love the conflicting stories. Before I bought it the stories I heard were factory VW Brazilian was OK, it's the aftermarket stuff to
watch out for. Anyway, too late to worry about that I have the motor now 
Brad, my best guess on the reason for the hole is to bore the cam bearing seats, the plug is just to fill the hole left from machining. I guess the
plug will see full oil pressure though so does need to be secure.
As for whether it's leaking or weeping, all I know is the motor has been used and behind the flywheel and the sump has the typical oil stains
from a leaky flywheel seal but it seems to come from the cam plug, so not sure how bad it is. Like you said, probably been leaking from day one. I
suppose I assumed a new seal and problem solved, it’s never that simple though.
Thanks Dave, at the rate I do things if I go the re-build route it’ll still be in the garage in 5 years time :-). Might throw some araldite on,
can’t do any harm if it doesn’t work.
Andy :thumb
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vw54
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 05:29 PM |
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Ive done the araldite thing myself ... too get out of trouble for a while... but preperation is the key word in order for the glue to get a good bond
to the case and plug so it stops the leak. even some cause scratching around the plug and in the magnesium will aid the bonding
Give it a go its may save a engine pull for a few years... but i would still like to know why its leaking
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 07:14 PM |
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better than araldite
prob with araldite is it loses bond strength at fairly low temps. it rehardens after it cools, but by then it's already fallen off, or has let
oil come between it and the surface it was stuck to. one better: (almost gauranteed to work on the end of the cam plug bit) a product called
"knead it".get the steel one (not the multipurpose or aqua one. also a two part epoxy, but tougher, and more heat/oil resistant. you can get
it at any hardware store, or auto store. another one is called "quiksteel". it even resembles the colour of the case, and adheres to just
about anything. open the tube, take off the silver sticker, get your sharp stanley knife and cut off about 10mm. peel off the plastic outer, squish
the stuff around till it's a uniform colour (the black core mixes with the grey outer layer) and whack it in place. you have about five minutes
to mould it into something pretty and then it becomes unworkable without a file. i have emergency repaired an oily leaking alternator cover on a
motorcycle with it, and that was sticking to polished aluminium. bingo!
while it's still malleable, moosh a VW symbol into it
sets rock hard in half hour, pressure resistant in 6hrs.
ta daahhhh
also sticks pretty well to your fingers.
let sleeping dubs lie
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11CAB
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 07:25 PM |
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Wes, have you never had the flywheel off a type 1 motor?? The cam plug is about the size of a 10 cent piece.....excuse my ignorance, but I've
never seen an "allen key grub screw" that big.......
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 9th, 2003 at 11:28 PM |
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ah HAH
just take the one off your gearbox |
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Andy
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 12:27 AM |
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Hahaha,
11Cab, should have seen that one coming from Petr a mile off
Grub screws are available in a large range of sizes, metric imperial and taper big enough to do the job.
It wouls be a last resort to save a case for me though, not at this stage.
Peter,
Sounds like great stuff. Sounds like what I used to repair a porcelin sink once. Is it easy to remove if/when I need to split the case one day??
:thumb
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 01:11 AM |
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easy to remove... nope.
the porcelain repair stuff (if it's the one i think you're talking about) is more like white araldite. I'm using it to hold my fuel
pump inlet tube in place till i get a new one. so far it's done a few months no probs. when it comes time to split the case, you'd just get
a heavy duty (bastard cut) file and file it back til it's thin and give it a sharp crack. where it's thin it'll split a lot easier than
the case material, so no real problem. if you're worried about residual crud, get a cheap wood chisel and gently scrape it off. this stuff is
handy. you can even fabricate nuts out of it, as long as you don't over-torque them. another cool thing about it is it's supposed to
scavenge oil while it sets, so even oily substrates are no problem. like fingers. personally though, i'd degrease the bastard before sqwishing it
on.if it turns out the main seal is the culprit, whack in a sand seal. NO LEAKS. and next engine case you do, buy a crack tested seasoned genuine mag
alloy vw case, or one of those insano tough aluminium ones if weight is no concern.
some of the new brazilian/mexican cases experience some kind of deformation period, and can get realllly out of line after a few thousand ks.
or is that defamation period?
*pours vitriol on poor metallurgy*
that would be kinda like etching i spose..
*looks blank*
let sleeping dubs lie
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 08:29 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 11CAB
Wes, have you never had the flywheel off a type 1 motor?? The cam plug is about the size of a 10 cent piece.....excuse my ignorance, but I've
never seen an "allen key grub screw" that big.......
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I've had plenty of flywheels off. Allen head grub screws come in a ridiculous range of sizes as Andy said. I've personally seen lots of 50mm
versions. I've done repairs to 700 tonne industrial equipment so I guess size is a relative thing.
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 12:52 PM |
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well I'VE done repairs to six MILLION TONNE industrial equipment
let sleeping dubs lie
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 01:21 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard
well I'VE done repairs to six MILLION TONNE industrial equipment
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I was being serious. Mainly the design and overview of the repairs. 700tonne being the heaviest single piece of rotating equipment. Also worked on
1500tonne shiploaders and a stacker reclaimer in Hong Kong. But now we're off topic :puke
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Andy
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 01:53 PM |
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I can do an oil change on a VW, does that count for anything??
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 02:05 PM |
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mine's bigger than yours.
let sleeping dubs lie
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 02:32 PM |
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I saw yours at Valla. It's not that big :P
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helbus
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 02:38 PM |
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I hope it is oil leaks you are talking about now.
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11CAB
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 04:30 PM |
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My humble apologies, as i said, I've never seen a grub screw that big.......
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Baja Wes
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| posted on September 10th, 2003 at 05:18 PM |
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Although the pic quality is crap, this is my V6 engine with the flywheel removed. You can see it uses two quite large allen head grub screws to blank
off unwanted machining tunnels. They obviously didn't think using welsh plugs was such a good idea behind the flywheel.
As I said before though, you'd need some pretty good taps to be able to thread the case with the cam in place.
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 13th, 2003 at 03:12 PM |
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wes!
you promised you wouldn't tell!!
*feels cheap and used*
let sleeping dubs lie
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on September 13th, 2003 at 03:16 PM |
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o. and btw, i hope you got those blue things out of the way before you put the gearbox on. i have a mate who knows a mate who says he met someone who
shoehorned a V6 into a VW and finished up only to discover a strange noise coming from it whenever he drove.
upon pulling the engine out, sure enough long stringy bright blue stuff was caught all round the flywheel and clutch.
at least that's what i heard...
:o
let sleeping dubs lie
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Brad
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| posted on September 14th, 2003 at 10:42 AM |
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Wes Wes Wes !!
man I can't beleive you took a nice type 1 VW thread and had to swing it around off subject enough to post yet another picture of you damn V6 on
the net.
Just got to get use to the idea it will never be a buggy or get close to wooping one .. :kiss
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Andy
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| posted on September 14th, 2003 at 09:10 PM |
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NO!!!
I feel so small, my thread has been hijacked
:P :P :P :P
:kiss
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