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posted on August 4th, 2004 at 10:23 AM
Update....
OK, its update time.....
.... and I have something interesting to report....
[size=6]IT RUNS!!! [/size]
...finally! I'll fill you in on the finer points in a moment but first to answer some questions....
Quote:
... and if the temp sensor made a difference or not.
I havn't fitted the temp sender yet, the wiring fo rthe temp sender is just tied up in the loom so that it doesn't get caught in any moving parts -
I will look at fitting the sender today although I won't necessarily be able to mount it where it will eventually reside in my 1835, but as long as
it is connected....
Quote:
Another question - does your 1835 have a hot cam in it or not ?
My 1835 will have an Engle 110 in it, however the engine that is currently fitted (and running!) the EFI is only a standard 1600, so only a standard
cam.
...Now on to the startup issues. You might remember before that I felt that I had a vacuum leak, so I checked the manifold for leaks and re-sealed
them....well, when I tried to start it again after this had been done, I still had a problem with what sounded like a vac leak. Whilst fiddling with
the fuel map in an effort fo get it to start I did get it to start and run for around 3-5 seconds. Whilst it was running I noticed that the engine
had quite a loud knock (but as this was a pre-thrashed engine on loan from my brother and as with all his engines it had had a very hard life I
wasn't too surprised), but the engine was still only running (or attempting to run) on two cylinders. Completely frustrated, I decided to begin
testing the mechanical devices to ensure that I wasn't having tuning problems because something wasn't working so I borrowed a fuel pressure gauge
from my brothers workshop to test the fuel pressure...
To my disgust I discovered that the so-called high pressure pump that I had been sold wouldn't even move the needle on the gauge, so I had no fuel
pressure...I then tried a flow test to see if any fuel was comming out at all - there was but still no pressure - I think that I was sold a low
pressure pump:bounce - on the positive side - it is really quiet when it is running, so I may replace my current noisy low press. pump with this one
in the future...
I managed to find a Kombi EFI pump (in unknown condition) in amongst a pile of EFI stuff that my brother has collected so I fitted this in place of
the other "high pressure" pump. By this stage my brother had finished work and had come over to see how things were going... he watched the
pressure gauge whilst I opperated the ignition. It took a couple of goes to ge the pump to prime, however once it primed the pressure shot up (the
needle was on its second pass around the gauge when I turned the ignition off!) Yikes!
We decided to make an attempt at starting the engine with this pump, even though my brother felt that it had almost twice the pressure that the
manuals said that it should have (although they do give the figures at an idle so....)
when we turned the engine over it made an attempt to run but stalled, however, before I could make another attempt to start it, my brother asked it I
could crank the engine without the ignition/fuel as he felt that the compression was not right. We removed the ignition and fuel pump fuses and
cranked it over, when I looked at my brother he had a concerned look on his face and was shaking his head... apparently the last thing he had done to
this engine before removing it from the last car it was fitted to, was a compression test and he reckoned that it had really even compression on all
cylinders, which it obviously did not have now.
He knocked the tappet cover off the 1 and 2 side and turned the engine over by hand... the No 1 intake valve was stuck open! A couple of careful
blows with a hammer failed to improve the situation, so we removed the manifold end casting for a better look down the intake port - the valve seat
had fallen out! I am told (by my Brother) that he has never seen a valve seat come out of an intake valve in a 1600 (type IV's - happens all the
time, but never a 1600). A couple of phone calls later and Tim (aka mud bashing) was on his way over with a spare twin port head that he had laying
around.
In just on 2 hours (which included a stop for dinner!) we had another head on the engine, had checked the compression and were preparing for another
attempt...
The first couple of attempts resulted in exactly the same result as before - a short burst then stall...
My brother wanted to know what would happen if I tried to start it on the Camira calibration, so I loaded the factory cal for the Camira and pushed
the start button... it backfired through the intake - more fuel was the cry, so I increased the fuel flow on the lower end of the fuel map (or so I
thought) - still the same result.
After a couple of attempts, it was discovered that if my brother 'choked' the air intake by placing his fingers over the top of it, the engine would
run for longer - needed more fuel, partucularly at idle - I adjusted the deceleration enrichment (upwards quite dramatically - from 0.8% to 25%!) and
this allowed the engine to come to a very rough by still running, idle
Whilst holding the throttle slightly open, I made some changes to the fuel map to see what the end result was going to be - the engine was still
backfiring, and by this stage we knew that it was running way too lean as the exhaust pipes were starting to glow! I continued to push the
fuel values up toward the rich end of the scale (or so I thought at the time) but things were getting worse. Now completely confused I went back
though the map and reduced all the figures dramatically - the effect was immediate! The engine began to rev more freely and the backfiring
dissapeared, we just thought that we had things under control when the engine flaked out.
Turns out that (we think) that we had run out of fuel - the Kombi pump was quite noisy (like it had air in it) and after a couple of key turns it went
quite (and you could hear air being pumped back into the main fuel tank).
As the engine was so hot (from running too lean) that we couldn't get anywhere near it so we took some time to reflect on what had just happened -
this is when we worked out the the closer you get to 100% on the fuel map the less fuel you are using - its a volumetric efficiency map, the less
fuel, the more efficient the engine is running, so I had been attempting to start and run it at almost full lean! No wonder it would backfire and
carry-on when I tried to start it!
My plans for today include replacing an old piece of fuel hose (that had come from the Camira), that has begun to split from the extra fuel pressure
that the Kombi pump supplies, to track down a fuel pump from a Camira or VL Commodore to replace the Kombi pump, then check the ignition timing,
before doing another run with the computer set to self-tune. Hopefully, by this afternoon I will have the engine running smoothly and starting every
time. I will also be fitting the engine temp sensor, as the ECU threw an error after the engine had been running for about 5 minuites, telling me
that it couldn't find the temp sender.
So there it is - sorry about the length of this post, however after 9 months of planning it looks like it has finally paid off. I can't wait to see
how well the auto-tune function works - Ill let you know later today.
C'ya,
R
:thumb
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posted on August 4th, 2004 at 01:03 PM
What more can be said but
Cooooooooolllll !!!!! :bounce
......random gibberish for today.......
KruizinKombi
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posted on August 4th, 2004 at 01:56 PM
Sounds promising....
Kruizin Kol
Doug Sweetman
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posted on August 4th, 2004 at 03:44 PM
Fantastic !!!! (in the end that is). What are the chances of being given the wrong fuel pump and having the test engine drop a valve seat !!!!! Sounds
like you had outsmarted yourself looking for the high tech problems, when it was a mechanical problem in the end. I'd have words with your brother
for giving you a bung test engine !!
Sounds like it is really going ahead in leaps and bounds now though - must have been very sweet to see the thing running and idling.
How hard is the Kalmaker software to use ?
Keep at it - it sounds like the hard work is out of the way now, and its just the final hurdle to get over before you are there - the magical land of
EFI !
tassupervee
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posted on August 4th, 2004 at 06:47 PM
"Extra fuel pressure the kombi pump provides"
WTF?????
It makes no difference what pump you have as the fuel pressure is set by the fuel pressure regulator, not the pump.
Ratty, I gotta ask, evidently your fuel pressure regulator is not working, plumbed incorrectly or, dont you actually have one there???
Fuel pressure for an atmo system should be somewhere around 40 mebbe 50 PSI...... which will vary according to manifold pressure
What type of pressure regulator are you running and what connection do you have to sense manifold pressure?
One of the dramas I have with my wifes ET turbo when I first set it up was the connections to the FPR were incorrect, leading to sky high fuel
pressure.
Running the pumps on their own internal (safety) bypass will result in the pumps failing in quite short time as they are a positive displacement type.
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
ratty 63
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posted on August 5th, 2004 at 11:44 AM
tassupervee, I agree with what you have said above - I am still having issues with the engine stalling just after initial start up, watching the
output from the O2 sensor shows a rich fuel mix initially (the engine runs smoothly and revs higher than what the idle speed is set to - then the O2
graph takes a dive and goes (very) lean, causing the engine to run rough and stall. This is happening at almost every rev range (throttle open or at
an idle). I feel that I am loosing fuel pressure after the initial start-up, quite probably due to a faulty FPR.... but before I spend any more
money on parts, I want to make sure that I have set-up the software side of things correctly (and my Brother has taken the pressure gauge back to work
with him so I can't check the Fuel pressure easily ).
Doug, the Kalmaker software is, well, lets say, not the easiest thing to just pick up and understand. That is to say that you have to have an
understanding of EFI and engine tuning before you can get it to do what you want it to do - that said, once you have read the CD based manuals, and
had a play with the system, it all makes sense. The biggest issue is the fact that there is over 200 groups of variables, some of which contain
entire maps for fuel or spark or.... - so as you could imagine, just remembering where everything is can be the hardest part. Have a look at their
web site - it gives a basic run down of what it is like to use. It is obvoiusly very powerful, but as with most powerful software, it can be quite
tricky to come to grips with. The best part is that you have no real boundaries in relation to your settings - the only boundaries are what your
equipment (mechanical) can handle - so you can make it do anything you like - I noticed that it is actually possible to make the engine accelerate
once you have taken your foot off the accellerator if you play with the figures! Not recommended, but possible, so if you can do this, imagine what
else you could do! I am still learing what all the settings do, but at least I can save the Calibrations that work to a file and when I stuff things
up - I can then re-load the working cals and start again, rather than having to try to remember what I had changed.
OK, I'm off to see what I can learn today!
R
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posted on August 5th, 2004 at 01:04 PM
I was gunna say what tassupervee said. You can use any EFI pump, the regulator will regulate it to the correct pressure.
be careful with the oxygen sensor too, it won't like practically drowning in fuel from an excessively rich mixture.
you want to check for sticking or leaking injectors too. especially if your running with a faulty regulator. When you prime it before starting it
might be spraying fuel constantly into the engine, so when you start it, it starts rich and then leans out as it burns out the excessive fuel in the
manifold / engine.
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posted on August 5th, 2004 at 01:19 PM
Really cool Rob
Sounds like all your hard work is going to pay off
Marc
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tassupervee
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posted on August 5th, 2004 at 05:47 PM
keep at it dude.
im sure its a "cant see the wood for the trees" kind of thing......
You will never regret going down the road you are going when you end up with a setup that will start and run happily hot cold or indifferent and will
blow the doors off any carby setup you can name.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
1303Steve
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posted on August 5th, 2004 at 09:25 PM
Hi
Another sweet thing about EFI is that you can make breaks in traffic that you wouldnt dare with dual webbers for fear of them farting and you getting
cleaned up.
1302Steve
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posted on August 6th, 2004 at 12:04 PM
hear hear ! thats my pet hate with the Kadron + 009 combo, esp. in winter.
Doug Sweetman
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posted on August 10th, 2004 at 10:05 AM
R must be properly stuck in his garage, scratching his head over all the vague EFI problems.......
Either that or hooting around the streets in his EFI bug....
in other words........
BUMP
Baja Wes
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posted on August 10th, 2004 at 10:19 AM
I am closing this half of this post, as it is sick. please continure the thread here;
posted on August 4th, 2004 at 10:23 AM
[/size]
).
