| [ Total Views: 2649 | Total Replies: 66 | Thread Id: 17378 ] |
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 bigbruvabob
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| posted on January 4th, 2004 at 05:45 PM |
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type iv for beetles
hi guys still searching for that best reliable bang for your buck motor and wonmdering what people out there think of type iv motors for beetles.
looking for really strong reliable motor options. all opinions welcome there is a huge amount of decisions to be made when looking for that motor
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 4th, 2004 at 08:22 PM |
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Pick up a 2lt Type4 from a wreck and fit a Sharpbuilt upright conversion and you will have a beast.Plenty of low end torque and with taller gearing a
good cruiser.
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Dasdubber
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| posted on January 4th, 2004 at 08:33 PM |
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I am currently building my project to take a mild type IV engine (with sharpbuilt upright kit).
I am looking forward to experiencing the difference between type I/type IV but can't report on anything yet apart from the cost.
Definitely more expensive to build (whether the longevity and reliability will counter this initial expense is unknown at this stage).
Factor in at least $600 for the upright kit, don't expect to get bearings of the size you need in a big hurry, and bear in mind that most parts
have been more expensive in general than type I (in my experience - obviously there are exceptions).
I don't regret going type IV (even though I am yet to drive it) - just wanted something different. Look at http://www.shoptalkforums.com in the type4rum for heaps of info (look through all
the old posts) - and a site from tuna (can't remember the address but should have links somewhere from shoptalkforums).
Hope that helps a bit.
Alan
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bigbruvabob
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| posted on January 4th, 2004 at 08:53 PM |
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type iv beetles
thanks guys found a good us site at the samba.com massive.com. it has a real cool fan systems dtm and do whole engine kits new (big big bucks 150hp).
not mech minded enough as yet to do myself (learning on rebuild of girlfriends 1600) so need to find reputable melb based builder if im going to go
type iv any ideas
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 4th, 2004 at 09:04 PM |
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I have gone the Type4 way as well and mine is a mild 2.7lt which I bought as a complete and running engine. I stripped it and had it o'hauled in
Adelaide and didn't think that it cost much more than a Type1 and had no trouble with getting parts. I had to get another case because it had
been butchered to have a 5th stud fitted and the new one didn't need machining or a crank grind,but had the heads cleaned up and all parts crack
tested and balanced which was the major cost. Had to have the case machined for the 103 barrels which was the same as opening up a type 1 case. If you
could pick up a running 2lt Type 4 and it didn't need a crank grind or case machining,you should be able to o'haul it with heads done up
cheaper than building up a 1915 type 1 with the big bore kit and some decent heads.Both would need a good set of dual carbs.And of course an upright
cooling kit for the Type 4,but on the above link to the Shoptalk Forum there is a link to a Cali conversion you can do yourself for a small cost. I
haven't driven mine as yet either,but have had it running and man does it roar.
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ratty 63
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 posted on January 5th, 2004 at 12:37 PM |
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Type IV engines
Hi all,
My Brother has been running an standard 1800cc type IV engine with an upright fan conversion in his daily driven '67 for around 2 years now. Has
given him very little trouble since the conversion was done. Masses of power althought it doesn't rev out as far as the 1641cc type I that it
replaced, it doesn't need to. Its capable of well over 140km/h fitted to a 1200 g/box - on its own or towing a fully loaded box trailer
(don't try this at home folks!!:o ). He has great fun blowing away early Commodores and the like when leaving the line - you should see their
faces (particularly when the realise that they have just been beaten by a bug towing a trailer with 12 sleepers in it!!).
The engine is fitted with twin Type IV carbs (yeah, I know that they say that it can't be done on an upright converted type IV - but it depends
on how hard you try!) and and external oil cooler with a thermo switch controlled fan. It is also fitted with modified type IV heater boxes (yep,
they say that this could not be done too...), which he has been too busy to connect to the car, but will not be hard to do so!
If you are interested I will take some pics for you and post them here or on my web site - just let me know.
Just as a matter of interest, he (my brother) has just finished a Porsche fan cooled type IV conversion on his '65 Baja - it is still being run
in at the moment, but is around a 2.1l with some internal 'go fast' parts. It has just done a week on Frazer Island, plodding around in the
sand, and he reports that about the only problem that he has is the T IV carbs (twin carbed again!) tend to flood easily when off road. He also
mentioned that it was running hotter that he would have liked, however he feels that it is probably due to the fact that the engine is still very
tight. (can take pics of this one too... just let me know..)
R
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Flintstones
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| posted on January 5th, 2004 at 09:14 PM |
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bigbruvabob,
I have been for a ride in a 2.8L with a wild cam, twin webers, and 4 into1 headers and man, has this thing got some torque!!! It's absolutely
neck-snapping!!
But it's timid enough for your grandma to drive. Best of both worlds if you ask me.
AS Ratty 63 said, his bro had a 1800 and still managed to whip butt with all that weight and is still reliable.
You can't get better than that.
Go the T4 I say
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 6th, 2004 at 04:42 PM |
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Yes please-all the pics you can-what sort of conversion did he use?The Sharpbuilt one keeps the Type4 cooler in the same place as the Type1,at the
back of the fan housing.
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 6th, 2004 at 04:51 PM |
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Running hot
Ratty 63-Just had another read of your post.Did your brother use the original Type4 under cylinder tinware.I had used it originally when I put mine
together and was surprised at the lack of air coming from under the cylinders when revving it up,and it smelt hot(was running on the stand)I came
across a thread on the Shoptalk Forum about this and found they use modified Type1 defectors.I have since changed mine and now there is a huge amount
of air coming from under the cylinders when revving it.Won't know true temps until fitted into car.
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BiX
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| posted on January 6th, 2004 at 04:58 PM |
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I run a mild 1776 motor in my L bug and a mate runs a 1800 in his L bug as well.
The 1776(w100 cam, extractors, twin 40mm dells) is faster than the kombi motor. The kombi motor has a bit more torque.
just have to compare the costs. Mine was about $3500-4000 compare that to a rebuilt kombi motor and conversion costs? |
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 vw54
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| posted on January 6th, 2004 at 05:41 PM |
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Dont forget if your rebuilding a Type 4 engine the big end and Main bearings are getting impossible to find in oversizes.
so before you get any machining done purchase your bearings first.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 6th, 2004 at 10:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by nbturbo
Had to have the case machined for the 103 barrels which was the same as opening up a type 1 case.
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The seating "lip" on a type 4 case for the barrels is about 6mm wide for a 2lt, what would this be if you bore it for larger barrels ?
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 12:09 PM |
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Measured my old case- Sealing seat varies between 3 and 4mm
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 01:34 PM |
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thanks
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ratty 63
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 02:50 PM |
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pics 'n' stuff
Hi all,
Just a quick one to let you know that I have just taken some pictures of my bro's engines. I will post them early tomorrow morning as I have to
go to work now (damn night shift:bounce ) and I don't have the time to compress them to the required level.
He mentioned all sorts of information that he felt that you might find helpful. I will write all that up when I post the pics.
Just a note on the type 1 vs type 4 cooling tin, he felt that the type 4 stuff (which he is using) is working OK and was a little doubtful as to how
well the type 1 stuff would work - have you got a link to that discussion on the Shoptalk forum? I will go and have a look and show the discussion to
my bro (see what he thinks). He suggested that you check that the fan you are using (er.. I assume that this is an upright conversion..?) is the
widest 1600 fan you can find - he tells me that many of the 1600s that he works on don't even have the correct fan fitted! He also mentioned
that you should check to ensure that the fan is spaced as far back in the fan housing as possible as the cooling air for the oil cooler is taken from
the back of the fan housing.
I have heaps of other info - I'll be back early tomorrow - must go now ...*click*
R
PS: he had just got back from the garden supplies, towing a trailer with 12 sleepers (he is terracing his yard - lives on the side of a cliff!) and
with 120kg of cement on the back seat. Tells me he is still having trouble with traction in 1st gear!!!:o
*click again!*
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 08:53 PM |
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It was a couple of months back-will have a search-in fact there has been a lot of posts on subject for the last 12 months.The bloke from Aircooled
Technology(J.Raby) has done a lot of cooling system testing and he discovered this while testing under load on his engine dyno.He hasn't got a
lot of time for my system-reckons they over cool.I have set my C.R. at 9.5 to 1 so it should make enough heat to need this.
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bigbruvabob
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 09:26 PM |
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type 4
hi guys ,currently in talks with a couple of builders to do my type 4 for me, am getting it pro built as i dont have the skills at the moment
(learning on a 1641 for my girlfriends roadster ,steep curve),but am definately going type 4 2.2 ltr with with all new bits except case, crank and
rods, going to breathe through 40 drla's and worked eliminator heads, mild cam,hydraulic lifters ( i think thats what the guy said otherwise you
have trouble with adjusting the tappets, does that sound right) with a porche style fan and probably a dtm shroud through jack raby although
volkspower do their own shrouds which apparently are very good but i haven't seen them yet. the porche fan and alternator are a major expense
about a grand. I am still waitng on final prices from three different buiders but i know its gunna cost me, but hey it wont be as much as a new rice
burnr. estimates put it at around the 130 hp mark, at least thats what i said i would like and they all said no worries. Once i decide on who builds
it i will post my parts list and the price so people can see whats what. nb onyours you run the porche style fan yeah, did you have to modify the
deck lid at all to fit in. mines going in a 64 on a76 irs pan and one of the people i spke to said it wouldn't fit without a propped lid, i have
one anyway so it doesnt matter that much i guess. Any way thanks for all the advice i sleep better now that i know my hard earned will get me
something tonka tough. :sandrine
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 10:29 PM |
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A 2.2 will cool well enough with an upright Type1 system.Sharpbuilt upright kits can use the Type4 oil cooler so it is a simple conversion.You can
also use modified Kombi heater boxes so can have heaters as well.From my research-stay away from hydro lifters and stay solid and valve adjustment is
no more difficult than a Type 1. If you go with the Porsche cooling-I have used a Sharpbuilt kit which needs the breather tower machined down which
will allow you to keep the engine cover closed.I have used a 73 engine cover to give more room for my exhaust system and to get more air into the
engine bay.I have made a new exhaust to have tailpipes coming from original openings
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 10:32 PM |
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Muffler
Another
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 10:44 PM |
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Another go
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 7th, 2004 at 10:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bigbruvabob
all new bits except case, crank and rods, going to breathe through 40 drla's and worked eliminator heads, mild tough. :sandrine
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Good luck in trying to get 130hp with 40 drla's and a mild cam :thumb someones giving you a bum steer.
Make sure who ever builds it will give you a full warranty, and talk to customers that have had their motors, otherwise you will not sleep because you
have blown your motor!
Tonka Tuff..................... only if its built properly !
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lugnuts
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 04:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bigbruvabob
hi guys ,currently in talks with a couple of builders to do my type 4 for me, am getting it pro built as i dont have the skills at the moment
(learning on a 1641 for my girlfriends roadster ,steep curve),but am definately going type 4 2.2 ltr with with all new bits except case, crank and
rods, going to breathe through 40 drla's and worked eliminator heads, mild cam,hydraulic lifters ( i think thats what the guy said otherwise you
have trouble with adjusting the tappets, does that sound right) with a porche style fan and probably a dtm shroud through jack raby although
volkspower do their own shrouds which apparently are very good but i haven't seen them yet. the porche fan and alternator are a major expense
about a grand. I am still waitng on final prices from three different buiders but i know its gunna cost me, but hey it wont be as much as a new rice
burnr. estimates put it at around the 130 hp mark, at least thats what i said i would like and they all said no worries. Once i decide on who builds
it i will post my parts list and the price so people can see whats what. nb onyours you run the porche style fan yeah, did you have to modify the
deck lid at all to fit in. mines going in a 64 on a76 irs pan and one of the people i spke to said it wouldn't fit without a propped lid, i have
one anyway so it doesnt matter that much i guess. Any way thanks for all the advice i sleep better now that i know my hard earned will get me
something tonka tough. :sandrine
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Hiya dude,im thinking yule need type4 heads as well,competition eliminaters are type 1,and a 2270 type 4 with 40dells and a mild
cam and hydraulic lifters wont get ya 130hp unless there American ponies,hang at STF type 4 forum for a cupla weeks,as Jake says ITS ALL IN THE
COMBO |
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ratty 63
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 posted on January 8th, 2004 at 01:33 PM |
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pics (finally)
Hi all,
Sorry its taken so long but I had a think about all the info that I had to post here and decided that it would be easier (and better for the forums
bandwidth) if I put it all on a web page and hosted it on my own site (bigger pics - can link to it from everywhere, etc.).
Go to: http://rosscosvwprojects.50megs.com/type%20IV%20engines.htm (sorry about the pop-ups - free hosting (has to be some
disadvantages!)
I had a quick read through the post that have been made since I was last on, the only thing that stood out was the comment about the hydralic
tappets...why steer clear of these? Self adjusting, quiet - what more could you want? My Bros Baja engine has hydralics in it (He is a VW mechanic
here on the Gold Coast).
I am going back to read the other posts now....
R
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ratty 63
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 01:43 PM |
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nbturbo,
Your engine looks great - nice and shiny (not like my Bros 'tractor' engine!). I notice you are using twin carbs - would be interested to
see if you engine enjoys the same benifits as my Bros engine from using a single air intake system.
My Brother said that all type IV engines run (and smell) hot when they are being run-in - the standard ones too, not just the converted ones.
Can't wait to see all these vehicle finished... keep us up to date with the progress ppl...
R
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 02:12 PM |
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Don't understand-single air intake system.?I am only using twin carbs until I can get my Fuel Injection up and running
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 02:31 PM |
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nb turbo,
Sorry, probably should have been a little clearer with my post - it is all explained on my web page but I will explain myself here again...
My Brother has found that using a single air filter with both carbs plumbed into it makes the engine run smoother and it even seems to generate a
little more power - it also helps to quiten the induction noise (the bigger filter element would do most of the 'quietening'. He's not sure why the engine runs better with this setup (he guesses it
is something to do with induction pulses, but...), however he does say that the difference is noticable.
I notice you are planning on going FI, I don't want to take over this thread but I am doing something similar, have you seen this thread: http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=15209 ? Would love your input or just a descrition of your
system...
R
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 02:43 PM |
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"Use a single air filter rather than two sepearte ones. The engines run better, give more grunt and are generally quieter through a single
filter. Dave used a modified L bug plastic filter box (and filter) to achieve this and it works well. - Just a note: in these pics the car is fitted
with dual pancake filters because the filter system that was originally built for this car is currently on his Baja until the fuel injection comes
along, so to stop the animals from making a home in the carbs whilst the filter is missing he has just put the pancakes back on. Also note that this
is why the coil is mounted in this position."
I have seen this before on the 2.8L Type 4 beast where the twin 48's were fed through a single air filter.
Really quietened it down. Relative though - still roared like a lion!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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bigbruvabob
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 04:51 PM |
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thanks guys
yep still looking and learning (lots to know) but not rushing in. Craig dont worry will definately talk to stan before finalising anything just
waiting for build details so that i know what im talking about a bit more.
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 05:12 PM |
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Ratty63
Have been watching that thread-a good read.I know nothing about the electronic side FI,am learning quickly though.I have a friend here who is a genius
with the stuff.He uses Delco on everything and can change things on the move with his laptop.He has done a lot of VW's over the years(b4 I got to
know him) and seems to get a buzz out of using Delco.He has just fitted a 3lt V6 turbo Nissan with auto into an older Nissan car and changed every
thing over to Delco and even fitted a crank angle sensor from a Commodore V6 and used the coil packs.He is now doing a 3lt Nissan straight 6,fitting a
2lt 4valve head with spacer and it is also Delco with CAS and coil packs.He reckons my system is a piece of cake.I am the hold up-trying to perfect a
manifold with single throttle body and mounting the injectors with no body alterations.
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bigbruvabob
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| posted on January 10th, 2004 at 05:21 PM |
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A guy i know
A mech mate of mine who owns a turbo rx3, (10 sec, 1/4 mile), said there is a set up going around that uses something like a weber body to house
individual injectors so your injectors would set up physically the same as if you had carbs on. I think he said that it used rochester injectors i
assume it is electronic and programmable. i will try to find out more. He is not really into dubs but does a lot of work on wild rotaries and
thought these might work
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