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 wacked1
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| posted on April 19th, 2004 at 09:43 AM |
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SC14 super charger queries???
I’m looking at an SC14 super charger it comes off a 1G GZE Toyota engine, the shop selling it say “it can probably work on nearly any car”. Does
anyone know if this can be run on a carbied engine or only on an EFI engine? I can purchase it any day for $250, then get it adapted to fit the
engine. Seems like a cheap alternative to turbo charging. It came off the 2.? L 6 cylinder engine. Don’t worry about engine size all I want to know
is can it be run with a carbie. I spoke to Mike of CBB and they are running a different type of supercharger their’s is the 4AGZE and will only run
on EFI engines.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
wacked1
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Cam
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| posted on April 19th, 2004 at 11:19 PM |
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I've heard of some people running a toyota supercharger on type IV motors. I think there are a couple of people on this forum running this set-up. I
posted a supercharger querie in the tech section awhile back and got heaps of replies. That would probably your best shot at getting a definate
answer.
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OvalGlen
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| posted on April 23rd, 2004 at 09:37 PM |
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you can run just about any combination in my oppinion,
but what would work well is another thing.
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Are the coatings on the rotors not fuel proof?
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The tolerances on a blower set up for Air pumping
only would be different to one designed for pumping air/fuel mixture.
Find out what was used on the original car set up (most likely
EFI) and this would be good guide for its intended use.
I would try using carb on your Nominated blower and maybe it would lose
a little efficiency but I would still do it.
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I thought you had a V8 ?
I dont think those Toyota blowers would give enough boost
for a V8, although I now know that Two Blowers would probably
work OK. (Mike made "mucho Boost")
[Edited on 23-4-2004 by OvalGlen]
Regards,Glenn>
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2443TT
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| posted on April 25th, 2004 at 07:13 PM |
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In theory you could use blow thru supercharging and either the 1GZgte or 4agze superchargers.
Basically it would work very simular to turbo blow thru carbs.
After thinking about this a bit, it sounds like a pretty interesting concept and would be quite a fun challange to work out, as boost right off idle
would make a bug quite awesome to drive, instead of turbo's which are laggy in comparison.
If I were to attempt it, i'd do the following:
1. You would have to modify the carbs to be boost sensative, which is pretty easy to acomplish. I'd use a new 40 IDF weber. It would jet like a
naturally aspirated engine at the low RPM end, and rich up high. Something like 55/145/160.
2. Upgrade the fuel system with an EFI rated pressure pump and malpassi rising rate fuel pressure regulator, to keep fuel pressure 3psi above boost.
3. Get a turbo blow off valve and fit it between the carb and the supercharger, conecting the vacuum line to the intake manifold. This would be
critical, otherwise the pressure produced when the supercharger is producing boost would blow apart the carb (massive pressure spike), when the
throttle is closed after reving the engine. It would sound real cool too!
4. Retard the timing obviously, but consider getting an MSD 6BTM so you can program in the amount of boost retard you want under certain boost
conditions, as well as have a rev limiter.
5. Water injection. Water would be injected after the supercharger into the air stream. You would use boost pressure from the intake manifold to
equalize the pressure in the water tank, and then have a small electric pump operated by a pressure switch at say 5-6 psi.
Well thats my 2 cents worth...
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wacked1
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| posted on April 25th, 2004 at 10:01 PM |
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yes i do run a V8 and i was thinking of running 2 of them.
thanks guys for the comments keep the comming.
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OvalGlen
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| posted on April 26th, 2004 at 11:20 PM |
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iswinkels - I like the ideas.
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Ahh , two of them, I was talking to Mike about this.
I liked the idea of feeding one straight into the next.
Comments Please.
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I too am needing more boost for an up and coming project,
These 2 L blowers are so cheap - it makes this sort of
extra complication , still quite tempting.
I mean a single blower is better but at the moment Very Expensive.
Regards,Glenn>
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2443TT
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| posted on May 3rd, 2004 at 08:32 PM |
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Just curious, but how much boost do you want to run? I have no idea what the toyota superchargers are capable of handling (pressure wise, before
distruction).
The concern here is will you destroy the unit by overspeeding it, or having too much pressure inside it. How close to the line can and will you
run?
Considering boost is speed related with superchargers there are two factors you will want to consider. What was the maximum safe boost used by
"tuners" on the factory engines and at what redline. This will give you and idea as to the opperational limits of the supercharger, and allow you to
calculate the maximum CFM of the unit.
Then based on your engine your going to supercharge in comparison to the toyota's 2 litres, work out your maximum possible boost. Ie: 15lb on a 2 lt
will equal 7.5lb on a 4 lit. Simple hey, or run two superchargers to maintain 15lb.
One thing that I know for sure is that an air pump is an air pump, whether it be a turbo or supercharger. With all air pumps there is a point where
efficency declines, and the result is almost always turned into heated air, and/or as I imagine with a supercharger, a boost drop off at high RPM due
to inadequite airflow.
About the concept of feeding one supercharger to the next (twincharging), well it sounds great in theory, but keep in mind that the both units have to
be able to flow enough CFM of air for the engine your putting it on, otherwise... inefficencies... boost fall off... heat.... etc, except twice as bad
as they are setup sequentially!
I have seen twin chargine on buses and marine disel engines before, but never heard of it on a petrol engine before. Keep in mind that these engines
are all purpose built, and the turbo's and superchargers were designed to meet the airflow requirements for that engine exactly, and your doing an
adaptation.
Just had another idea though... A friend of mine purchased a supercharger from a wrecker that came off one of those holden v6 supercharged engines for
a custom application. I think they are designed for nearly 4lt engines. if that isn't enough, get two of those! that will certinly give you the
airflow you need. They are pretty small too from memory.
Again another 2 cents worth of my opinion. I hope this helps.
Cheers,
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 28th, 2004 at 11:48 PM |
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yeah those Commodore units are great, that would be ideal for what I had in mind,
could you find out how much he paid.?
I believe they ask Heaps for them,
in the order of 2 000 Plus.
The Jap blowers are around the 400 ea.
Another issue is that they Really over run
those blowers on the V6's.
From memory I looked at the pulley size and thought that it was running more than Twice engine speed.
I am not too keen on Huge Blower revs -
not good for longetivity.
Regards,Glenn>
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2443TT
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| posted on May 30th, 2004 at 02:04 PM |
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I've got no idea what he paid sorry, and aren't in contact with him anymore. (his girlfriend doesn't like me) and he is ***** whipped!
About over running the superchargers on the v6's, surely holden would have thought of that. Cars these days are designed to run 100K+ on average.
The bigger concern about over running is the drop in efficency, resulting in heated air, reduced hp, and more chance for pinging.
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2443TT
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| posted on June 1st, 2004 at 09:01 AM |
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Have a look at these links
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2147/article.html
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2149/article.html
They also say you can get a brand new eaton v6 supercharger for about $1700, and seconhand ones for 1/2 to 2/3rds of that. It also mentions the drive
ratios and flow rate of the v6 eaton chargers.
Cheers,
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on June 1st, 2004 at 09:58 AM |
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Hmmm, I wish I could see the rest of the article without buying anything!!
Kruizin Kol
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Secoh
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| posted on June 5th, 2004 at 01:41 PM |
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last time I priced up the commodore eaton charger it was $1400 bare, which is damn good. that was a few years back though.
the SC12 and SC14 have a max rpm of 14,000 before they rapidly expire and cavitate. this is dependant on your pulley ratio and engine max rpm.
maximum boost will depend on size of motor its going on and rpm.
the toyota superchargers are not toleranced for fuel and will fail relatively rapidly when used in a draw-through setup.
If it aint broke,
Make it go faster!!  |
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