| [ Total Views: 1198 | Total Replies: 15 | Thread Id: 2768 ] |
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 david
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| posted on January 2nd, 2003 at 06:54 PM |
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air bag suspension
i am doing '60 11 window bus and will be lowering it ,i am not sure which way to go ,drop spindles and dropping the rear with stock brakes
about $450 bay window front end with irs rear and 4 wheel discs around $5,000 ,i have just seen a twin cab on e-bay that has air bag suspension on
it has any one in oz done this or is it to expensive
dave:o:o
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 kombi_kid
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| posted on January 2nd, 2003 at 07:26 PM |
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i asked this question on the shoptalkforums and i got a lad that specialiazes in this stuff but never got a reply!
i spose it would take a fair bit of modification and cost
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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VWFOOL
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| posted on January 2nd, 2003 at 07:44 PM |
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"bay window front end with irs rear and 4 wheel discs around $5,000 ,"
i looked into this and found that you will be looking at about a similar price just for air bags alone.
my fuiend went with the other choice and his ride sits nice and low, but, depends on wat ur after...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One man's junk...
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david
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| posted on January 2nd, 2003 at 08:14 PM |
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low is the go
i want to go low ,does your friend go on the forum i would like to chat to some one who has this done ,to check on ride comfort etc ,did he go custom
bugs and buses or indian automotive, any one wish to comment on either place via u2u if good or bad experience
dave:o:o
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Dasdubber
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| posted on January 2nd, 2003 at 09:51 PM |
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I made some preliminary enquiries about airbag suspension for my 64 splittie project - check out http://www.burnincustoms.com for some details (not vw related) - they are based on the gold coast here in QLD. It does
work out to be quite exy. Still haven't decided for sure but most likely will just go the simpler cheaper route of IRS rear and adjustable front
beam.
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humpty
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| posted on January 3rd, 2003 at 01:11 AM |
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IRS, Ball joint beam & air springs...The only way to fly!
I've done all your research for you...Check out my web site...On the links & downloads page....There is a couple of companys there that do
"Air Bag/Spring" kits for VWS. As for how you sould do the suspension...5K is little high...I have just put an adjustable bay frontend into
a splitty for about 600 bucks (new BJ's, Indian adjusters)....If you use indians IRS kit, I reckon you could do the rear for about 2K...My
brother did his for a few hundred and a little home cooked engineering....Also see that car on my website look for "choppas toys" in the
members pages!
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kombi_kid
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| posted on January 3rd, 2003 at 07:16 AM |
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or if its hydrolics ya after try:
http://www.maxhydraulics.com
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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Mr Bubble Head
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| posted on January 3rd, 2003 at 06:36 PM |
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bags or beams
If I was you I would go for the bay window set up as at least your staying near the original vw set up with out going for an all out custom set up
This should make future problems far easier to fix
Also air bag suspension makes for even worse handling which is the last thing you need in a split. At least the bay window set up should improve
handling a little more.
I'm not knocking air bags as I have spoken to the girl who along with her dad set up max hydrolics in england and its quite an impressive system
and very simple to fit yourself. On a plus side you have the luxury of adjustable rider hight from your seat which is cool in its self.
its upto you.......
nick
recycle, restore, enjoy
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kombi_kid
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| posted on January 4th, 2003 at 07:04 AM |
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how do the air bag systems work????? is it just the same as busses? in the shockies?
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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humpty
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| posted on January 6th, 2003 at 10:52 PM |
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How do they work?????
Ok ...Here goes....
Firstly...The are could air springs...NOT air bags....Air Bags is a slang term that was coined in the early days when they were first developed here
in Australia for Trucks......The US used the idea on luxury cars and RVs and the tecjhnology has move throught the market place into other vehicle
types....history lesson over!
How they work.
The Air Spring normally replaces the Coil spring in a conventional car, used in conjuntion with a shock absorber.....on a VDUB, it's a little
different... Usually the "Spring" runs along side the shock, mounted on custom brackets. On the front, the front Adjuster (AVIS, SWAYAWAY)
is usually left loose. As the Air Spring relaces the need for the torsion leave system. I am unsure how legal & how safe this set-up is!!! On the
rear, the, torsion bars are removed entirely on the spring plate grommets are replaced with Nollathane type grommets or the spring plate/torsion bar
is replaced altogether with a custom trailing arm hinged with rose joints...Kinda like a 4 bar set-up on a hot rod (Note: the custom trailing arm
set-up will only safely work with an IRS rear end!).
Hows that?
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kombi_kid
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 07:07 AM |
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sorry to be a pain but whats the diferance between hydraulics and air bag suspension?
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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Unity-28
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 03:09 PM |
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Hydros work with Hydrolic fluid, where as bags work with air! Air bags are compressor filled and hydros pumps! The ride on hydros is really stiff,
alot stiffer than just a lowered car! Are bags are very smooth! Someone said earlier in this subject that it will make handling worse, but in fact it
will make it alot better! Call BurninKustoms in QLD (THEY ARE UNITY MEMBERS AS WELL) Ask for Reece, he will help you out! You could also make a kit
of your own, but I have no idea how for a type2! Im putting bags in my bug, which will lift the front 5in, and the back 7! Just remember that either
hydros or bags will raise your car not Lower it, so before they are inflated, the car must sit at its lowest point!!!
Cheers! Nectar!
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Unity-28
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 03:14 PM |
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PS Use Air Bags not Cylinders, as cylinders are almost as stiff as hydros! ThEY DO MAKE LONG AND THIN VERSIONS OF AIRBAGS!!!! There Is also a mob in
Melbourne called Fabricate This, they are in Montrose, they might be able to help.
Email me if you need to contact them!!!
Cheers! N!
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 03:34 PM |
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I don't mind either system, and I see no reason why either system would adversely effect handling. Austin 1800's use
'hydroelastic' suspension which worked incredibly well - they weren't called 'land crabs' for nothing (nearly impossible to
tip over!). Citroen use pnuematic suspension for many years with great success. Sure, with either system, critics will talk about blown bags, etc. but
what else do you expect with a 30 year old car running its original bags?
My only criticism of both systems as a retro-fit is cost. I think aftermarket systems are excessively overpriced.
Kruizin Kol
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Unity-28
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 03:46 PM |
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Hey KK, Both Systens are good, but It depends what you want to do with it! If you are going to drive it often, go with bags, if not so often go with
cylinders, and if only to show, so you can hop and jump it go hydros! I was going to hydro my bug, but you need to reinforce the body, usually with a
heap of fibreglass, with then make a huge weight difference!!! Do you come to Melbourne often??? If yes, you should go and see the boys at Fabricate
This!!!
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 03:56 PM |
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I'm interested in getting from A to B. 
I don't believe that cylinders are good for anything other that gimmicks, except perhaps front-end loaders, cranes, etc.
Yes I'm in Melbourne fairly often, but it doesn't interest me enough to go out of my way, sorry.
Kruizin Kol
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kombi_kid
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| posted on January 7th, 2003 at 07:29 PM |
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hey
thanks guys!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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amazer
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| posted on January 8th, 2003 at 07:14 PM |
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Citroens actually used hydraulics. I worked on a production car pit crew for the bathurst 12 hr years ago. Citroen was pretty good. got 8th outright
and first in class in '92 ahead of a falcon XR8 and commodore SS . Pretty good for a 1.9 litre car normally aspirated. These were citroen
BX's 16 valves. Exhaust manifold was awesome. 8 little pipes coming out of the head. Like a miniature set of extractors for a straight 8.
Anyway back to the suspension. It was hydraulic. Same system ran the power steering and suspension and brakes! You could vary the height with 3
different settings with a lever between the front seats. They had a little round accumulator on top of each wheel about the size of a softball. Its a
really neat system as it also works as the sway bar. And if that wasnt enough it had height correctors. So if you were towing the back would pump up
and keep the car level.
The guy I was working for (peter mcleod, won 1987 bathurst 1000 with brock in a VL) was a citroen dealer. I really got to like citroen cars after
that. The 2CV is very simple and volkswagen like in concept and the DS although ugly is interesting too. I was even considering trying to put a type 4
in the front of one!
The team also ran a twin turbo RX7 but couldnt get speed out of it sadly enough. Other mazda teams blew us away.
[Edited on 8-1-2003 by amazer]
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Dasdubber
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| posted on January 8th, 2003 at 09:05 PM |
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I read that a big criticism of air bag/spring suspension for veedubs is that the upper shock mount/bracket where the air bag/spring mounts to often is
not designed to handle the entire load of the suspension (especially if the torsion bars/leaves are removed totally or the adjuster in the front beam
is left loose).
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Unity-28
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| posted on January 9th, 2003 at 01:38 PM |
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best thing to do is to leave all the suspension as it is (except lower it all the way down, tighten itas you normally would, and use the bags as your
suspension!!! Another thing you might consider in a bug, at the front instead of using regular torian bars, and swap bays, run a sway bar through the
beam, thus having more roon to go lower! hehehe
Cheers! N!
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