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 azz
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 03:08 PM |
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extra oil cooler
ok i have a 1976 2 ltr automatic kombi and i got a vdo temp gauge fitted (sensor is attached via a hole under engine-mechanic fitted this-maybe into
sump but im no mechanic) shortly after i bought it to keep an idea of whats going on-
its in very very good condition and the motor was rebuilt 3 years ago-compression isfine etc etc
anyway in summer; in brisbane, it runs at around 130-135 degrees at about 100kms/ hr
now the guy who installed it recommends an extra oil cooler be fitted to keep the engine in good condition and make it last longer
i normally slow down to keep it at 125 degrees
i have asked about 6 vw mechanics and its split 50-50
the ones who do install oil coolers say its a must the ones who dont say its a waste of time and money and that they are very prone to further oil
leaks
i know that autos always run hotter than manuals
any opinions on this
thanks
[Edited on 11-1-2003 by azz]
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azz
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 05:24 PM |
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anyone???
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kombiluva
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 05:43 PM |
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Oil coolers????
I have a 1978 Bus and I have an oil cooler fitted. My oil NEVER goes over 100 D/Cel.
Here is how I have it set up.
First there is one of those sandwhich blocks that goes between the oil filter and the engine block that routes oil to thre cooler as it gets hotter.
(I think it is off a WRX-the hotter the oil the more a valve opens in the block to directs oil to the cooler and back to the engine)
Then I have my oil cooler mounted under the body of my bus, the cooler is one that is made of aluminium and it is the one that is used on Morris
minors and Cooper "S" model cars. It is mounted forward of the gear box and to the left of the Centre line. It hangs down no more then the
lowest point of the gear box.
I have just returned from Brissie last weekend and all was fine....even on the return when we got stuck at Buladealah in 35 deg heat doing 10lkm/h for
17 klm.
I think the main reason this set up works so fine is that then engine still uses the engines oil cooler. In ref to it leaking I would have to say
that it DID up to about 4 weeks ago, then I got the guys (Shimo and Paul) at DUNHAM Motors to fix it. (Thanks heaps guys, it is running like a dream)
The leak consisted of a little oil residue around the adaptor plate and the like.
If you can afford the set up, I would recommend it!
Regards
Kombiluva
PS Adaptor plate costs about $250, oil cooler $200 and oil lines about $100 |
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amazer
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 06:19 PM |
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my temp problems are easy fixed. I dont have a gauge. Wouldnt have a clue what the temps are, but I suspect that occasionally its too high. But no
gauge = no probs! I once raced a BMW (i was a long way behind and he probably WASNT racing) the entire length of the F6, when I stopped at the end I
had no oil pressure cos oil was too hot. Havent had the oil light problem again so i'm not panicing.
If I did have a gauge I think I would want it to go to over 100 though. maybe cover up part of the cooler.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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silver
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 06:47 PM |
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cooler installed
I have an 14 row oil coller installed. It went in when I replaced the stock 1500 engine with 1916 thumper.it has never run hotter than 110( last
wednesday 40 degrees in syd )this has got to be good for my engine.a kind of insurance.it is not a cheap exercise though.
sturck 14 row cooler $260
berg oil pump cover pickup $160
enzed hoses $200
extra 2 litres oil $10
sitting on the side of the road with a blown mill
Pricey.
Keeping it real !
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azz
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 06:52 PM |
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i have been quoted around $750
is it worth it???
i think 99% of the kombis on the road dont have a oil temp gauge and are they all blowing up their engines???
my kombi runs beautifully now and i dont want to start problems by adding something thats not necessary
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11CAB
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 07:51 PM |
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I'm running a 2L engine in our Baja Bus and have an external cooler mounted under the body which runs off the sandwhich block mentioned above. It
doesn't hang any lower than the heater boxes and I've had no problems with clearance. I also have the air scoops on the side and the oil
temp used to sit around 125degrees at 100km/h. I've since had a look at the jetting in the carbs and found it was jetted for a 1700. I had 130
mains and 175 airs. I changed to 135 mains and 155 airs and we did the Beach trip to Double Island point and the temp never got above 100degrees
cruising at 100km/h or driving through the soft sand. On the way home we cruised at 110km/h and the temp reached 110degrees which is heaps better then
before. If I pushed it before you could watch the temp climb and even a fan on the cooler couldn't bring the temp down, now I don't even
have the fan fitted anymore and the temps are much more bearable.
Graham
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OvalGlen
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 10:14 PM |
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I have Kombi 78 Bay. 2L auto. carbs.
Dont have guage. On recent trip to Brissy
I was concerned about eng temp, kept checking but was not a problem. I did take it fairly easy (100 on flats and 110 down hills but let the poor thing
slow down up the hills). Now I did use PULP and made sure the advance was as much as safe. (retarded engines can get hotter).
Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 10:18 PM |
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so I probably wont be putting cooler on.
Regards,Glenn>
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on January 11th, 2003 at 11:32 PM |
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$750 for an oil cooler!!! :o:o:o .... It would want to come with a dry sump system!
Kruizin Kol
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azz
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 07:06 AM |
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well thats what i have been quoted to have it fitted from 2 places here in brisbane
1- custom off roads--stafford
2- manx buggies/vw centre-- coopers plains
maybe they were quoting 'worse case senario'
i will take the information you have given me and get back to them on what options i have
i am going to tenterfield next weekend so that should give me a fair indication of what my temps are doing on the longer drives
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kombiluva
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 08:59 AM |
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Worried about your OIL Temp?
If you are worried about your oil temp on your bus, why don't you replace your dip stick with a "BERG temp sender".
This little gizmo works by replacing your dip stick with a thermomoter. You hook it up to your oil pressure sender in your engine bay. When your oil
gets to HOT, your oil warning light on you dash will flicker.......time to slow down or if it comes on as a steady light, stop your engine.
It is calibrated to flicker on at 115 deg and come on at 125 deg......just before you do serious damage to the heads........
I believe they are worth about $60 and take about 5 minutes to fit yourself.
I think the above exercise would be a lot cheaper then fitting the oil cooler set ups as described above.
Cheers
Mick |
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azz
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 09:41 AM |
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kombiluva
i already have a temp gauge fitted so i know how hot its getting and i think it is too hot
i guess my main problem is working out WHO to believe-
1-the mechanics who say i MUST have an extra cooler fitted
2-the mechanics who say they are not neccessary and will only bring more trouble
* do you have one?
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kombiluva
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 posted on January 12th, 2003 at 09:50 AM |
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Oil cooling
Azz,
I have just emailed you in ref to the tent/annex!
in ref to your Q: Yes I have both an oil cooler as I described above and the berg dipstick gizmo!
Cheers
Mick |
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68AutoBug
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 posted on January 12th, 2003 at 03:54 PM |
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OIL COOLER - YES $750 - NO !!
$750 complete with colour TV & CD player.
I have sent You some info Azz.. I hope it helps. The reason that Mechanics tell You You don't need an external oil cooler is because they are
seeing You as an Engine rebuild customer....
Lee:o
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 03:59 PM |
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[size=4]OK. Forum Members with External Engine OIL COOLERS FITTED - . DO External Oil Coolers cause any EXTRA Engine Problems???? as Azz has beentold.... loose hose clamp?? If Quality Hose and fittings are used.. there should be NO problems... [/size]
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 04:06 PM |
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Still NOT convinced.... carry a couple of containers of Engine oil , 4 Good Quality Hose clamps ..& ..a hose joiner with barbs to suit the oil
hose You are using .... then if need be, disconnect the external oil cooler....
PS. I use 2 clamps on everything- if possible.[ from old rally days.]
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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amazer
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 04:08 PM |
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The cooler itself wont cause anything more than a possible leak as you say. Just so long as you arent overcooling the engine. If fitted with a
thermostat then you have no problems.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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amazer
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 04:09 PM |
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I mean a thermostat to control oil flow, not the stock thermostat controlling the flaps.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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azz
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 07:49 PM |
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lee i hope you are not implying i buy the stuff necessary and fit it myself!?!?!?
holy hell!!
i know nothing about this at all- im a nurse not a mechanic
in my case its best left up to the professionals
but thanks for the info you sent it was very good and i will chase up some leads tomorrow
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70AutoStik
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 08:25 PM |
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135C is a bit too high, even for a Kombi. I'm afraid I'm going to upset a few people, but I'm going to agree with Gene Berg on this
one - you need to find out what is causing your oil temp to rise that much.
As for the cost of a cooler - I don't think your mechanics are trying to rip you off. In fact, someone who quotes you a suspiciously low price
probably is. A corrrectly installed auxiliarey cooler needs to be included in the same circuit as the stock one, and needs to have a good fan
attached. Cheapy "full-flow" systems will not allow your oil (and engine) to reach it's correct operating temperature quickly enough
(or at all,)and have a tendancy to burst or develop leaky hoses, and those that sit over the engine's air intake will simply make the whole
engine run hotter!
As for your overheating problem; get someone knowledgeable to look over your engine. Common problems are clogged oil cooler (expensive to replace,
but usually just need a good clean,) general grime in the cooling system, defective thermostat (or jammed/bent flaps) and damage to the fan itself -
oh, yeah: don't forget a stuffed exhaust can overheat your motor, too.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on January 12th, 2003 at 09:47 PM |
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I have advised Azz to Use Steel braided Hydraulic Hose and fittings between the adaptor plate [with thermostat] and external oil cooler .... I used
to Make up hydraulic hose with fittings at My last job. I didn't have to do it... I rather enjoyed it.
All by hand too... no fancy machines.. and they were less than 1/2 the price of EnZed & Pertek.... and using top Quality reuseable fittings....
1450psi rating.
Never had One leak either....:o
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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azz
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| posted on January 13th, 2003 at 08:50 AM |
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thanks for everybodys help with this topic
i wish i had found this forum earlier
:kiss
im going to get this sorted asap
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Che Castro
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| posted on January 13th, 2003 at 09:05 AM |
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yeah i agree, try to find the cause of your problem before you start trying to cure the symptom. Is the engine caked in dirt and crap? give it a
tune up and see how it goes.
its better to use hoses with threaded fittings at the end as they wont burst so easily, use a lightweight oil to prevent blowing hoses at startup like
5-40w
Jon
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azz
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| posted on January 13th, 2003 at 10:21 AM |
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ive spoken with mick motors and they advise to
*leave it alone
*keep a well maintained motor
*good oil
*and most importantly drive at more appropriate time of the day- not 2pm when its 40 degrees
guess i will keep checking it out
i already keep my kombi well maintained
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azz
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| posted on January 13th, 2003 at 04:40 PM |
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sorry sleepe3
i think the mechanic meant not to go on a long trip at that time of day etc etc
he seemed pretty reasonable and sounded like he knew what he was talking about
thats my main concern- who do i believe??
i have the funds for an external oil cooler but some very experienced vw mechanics-including one of 30 years- has never installed one and his engines
dont have problems
everything in my engine is maintained by the best mechanics i can find- i never have any problems other than it runs hot
>125 degrees when i am pushing it at 100kms/hr
i have just started to use PULP and have just had a major service from Phoenix Engineering Services and i am going to drive from Brisbane to
Tenterfield this saturday
i will stay on 90-95 kms/hr and see how i go
thanks for everyones help
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amazer
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| posted on January 13th, 2003 at 07:48 PM |
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come on people! Steel braided hoses are an expensive overkill. Bursting hoses? How much oil pressure are your cars running! You'll probably blow
up the filter before a hose. Go buy some high temp oil hose and some hose clamps.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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Che Castro
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| posted on January 13th, 2003 at 08:18 PM |
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mine are rubber hoses but they have steel braiding underneath the outer rubber layer. They are 1/2" NPT threads i think, and they screw
straight into my full flow adaptor.
i've never had any blowouts or anything, it just seems easier to use threaded fittings rather than having slip ons with clamps and stuff. |
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azz
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| posted on January 14th, 2003 at 05:19 PM |
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Ben i have emailed you about getting in contact and getting a quote
thanks for your help everyone
im going to do more research and saving
:thumb
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bugmeister
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| posted on January 14th, 2003 at 07:58 PM |
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Anyone know where you can source a good quality oil cooler matrix that is at least 8x8 in OZ, so I can fit a Davies Craig thermofan. I've got the
Fabre Serck catalog, but it seems they don't carry the larger sizes I need.
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