| [ Total Views: 664 | Total Replies: 24 | Thread Id: 39345 ] |
|
|
 Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 12:29 PM |
|
|
Ethanol??
What is your opinion on ethanol??
Was driving alond Victoria Road heading east up the hill towards Top Ryde and there is a servo on the left hand side that sells 100% ethanol.
I will say - i would like to think it is better. It would support our cane industry??
Anyone run it??
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
 1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 12:57 PM |
|
|
Nice on the rocks with a twist
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 12:59 PM |
|
|
can you sniff ethanol???
Seeing as it is out of sugar - is it as bitter as petrol???
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 913
Threads: 141
Registered: February 13th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Canberra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: warm & fuzzy
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 01:08 PM |
|
|
It would be better for the environment to use a renewable fuel, HOWEVER...
Ethanol can corrode some materials in your:
* Fuel tanks
* Fuel lines/hoses
* Injector seals
* Delivery pipes
* Fuel pump and regulator
Vapour pressure of ethanol is greater therefore probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.
Ethanol can cause the engine to run lean.
Vapour pressure of ethanol is greater and leads to increased evaporative emissions.
All this was found easily on Google... I'm sure there's more!
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 01:16 PM |
|
|
nice bug Purplr 
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 913
Threads: 141
Registered: February 13th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Canberra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: warm & fuzzy
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 03:28 PM |
|
|
Thanks! I got it on Saturday from another guy on this forum 
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
|
|
|
kombikim
A.k.a.: Kim
Custom Title Time!
disfunctionally capable
Posts: 1521
Threads: 84
Registered: December 18th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Concord West
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: always bleary
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:00 PM |
|
|
I reckon you should give that ethanol a go in all your vehicles Barry, & let us know the results
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54  |
|
|
 barls
A.k.a.: Mr indestructible
Super Administrator
Causer of Chaos and Mayhem
Posts: 9470
Threads: 296
Registered: June 22nd, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: cruising in denistone east
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: indestructible? and listening to the voices
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:06 PM |
|
|
id stay away from it as it burns hotter and with a lower octane rating, they put this in most of the cheap imported fuel.
|
|
|
kombikim
A.k.a.: Kim
Custom Title Time!
disfunctionally capable
Posts: 1521
Threads: 84
Registered: December 18th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Concord West
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: always bleary
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:08 PM |
|
|
yep, are you sure it was not supposed to say 100% ethanol
free ?
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54 |
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:10 PM |
|
|
Nope Kim - it says 100% Ethanol
Have a look - its not far from you. On Vic Rd on RHS going to West Ryde
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:11 PM |
|
|
Can we try it in the blue bus??
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
kombikim
A.k.a.: Kim
Custom Title Time!
disfunctionally capable
Posts: 1521
Threads: 84
Registered: December 18th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Concord West
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: always bleary
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:11 PM |
|
|
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54 |
|
|
Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 913
Threads: 141
Registered: February 13th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Canberra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: warm & fuzzy
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:25 PM |
|
|
I wouldn't put it in any car of mine!
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
|
|
|
Doug Sweetman
Veteran Volks Folk
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Posts: 2128
Threads: 58
Registered: September 23rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth, W.A
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: sweeeeet 
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:31 PM |
|
|
Just drive up to Mackay in QLD, pull up to a BP station and try a tank of the E10 Ultimate / Ethanol (10%) mix that is being trialled up there in a
commercial trial.
IIRC, BP are seriously looking into making it a permanent fixture in the QLD fuel market (as they have cheap access to the raw feedstock required for
economical ethanol production via the sugar cane industry), so hopefully its here to stay.
Like Purple Martin said, you need to be very careful with the mixture of petrol / ethanol in engines that are designed for gasoline only, as you run
into seal swelling issues and they will run lean too (ie in fuel injected cars that think they are burning a higher calorific value, denser fuel like
petrol).
If you engineered the fuel storage and delivery system in the vehicle in question to be able to cope with the differences in fuels (ie changed all the
seals to alcohol friendly ones, and upgraded the injectors and tuned engine management / rejetted carbies to handle the increased flow required (just
like methanol) then there should be no reason why you couldnt use pure ethanol ? Not sure what compression you would be able to run though.....
Additionally, the mexcans have run Gasahol (a 50 / 50 petrol / ethanol mix I believe) for many a year.....
|
|
|
Chewy
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 889
Threads: 75
Registered: July 18th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Geelong, Vic
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Buggered
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 04:39 PM |
|
|
One for you, one for me, one for you, one for me.. lol
Be a lot of DUIs around
.
|
|
|
bus914
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1230
Threads: 233
Registered: August 29th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Central Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Could be worse
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 07:27 PM |
|
|
i saw it too, i wouldn't use it for the rust problems. but i wonder what octane rating they give it.
|
|
|
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 07:30 PM |
|
|
You stole my idea chewy. I was gonna say that
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
|
|
tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
Custom Title Time!
That really hurts doesnt it!
Posts: 1171
Threads: 25
Registered: September 21st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Huon Valley SouthernTasmania
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: Moody!
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 09:42 PM |
|
|
Men, there are a few ides here that are a bit wide of the mark.
Cutting petrol with ethanol has been going on commercially for years.
Its usually around 10%.
There are quite a few enterprising dudes that actually bother to still up this stuff at home and re-jet their engines to suit.
With no other modifications to an engine apart from re-jetting, running alky can yield around 5 to 8% power increase but roughly double the fuel
consumption.
Adding ethanol/alchohol/methanol RAISES the octane rating of petrol.
Loosely speaking:
petrol correct air/fuel ratio is around 14:1
Alcohol correct mixture is around 7:1
Alcohols are hydroscopic and therefore take up water in SOLUTION so its NOT undesireable to have it in there.
An old trick to control condensation in fuel tanks is to regularly pour in a litre or 2 of metho every now and then.
The low percentages of alcohol does lean the mixture to a degree but the increased octane rating compensates for this.
Things tend to go wrong using percentages above around 15% requiring re-jetting.
There are No dramas with rubber seals and gaskets in the low percentages used in alchohol cut fuel.
Diesel fuel is also cut with alchohol and termed Diesohol.
This has been trialed in truck and bus fleets around the country for many years with no ill effects.
Pour it in your tank and run away with it. You will not notice any difference in a low compression dak dak.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
|
|
|
ClassicVW(pacific)
Banned
Posts: 1627
Threads: 141
Registered: July 23rd, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 10:18 PM |
|
|
#! Message No Longer Available !#
|
|
|
tangblog
Learner Dubber
Posts: 11
Threads: 3
Registered: April 19th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 20th, 2005 at 09:24 PM |
|
|
Hi Purple Did all you guys Know that the humble bug in brazil runs on Ethanol. thats why in the late 80's the cylinder heads coming out of Brazil had
really high compression heads. but back in those days we had real petrol which could cope with the high compression. years ago there was a bogas
petrol station at raymond terrace and they cut there fuel with 20 to 30 % ethanol and my bug ran like the wind all the way to byron untill the gas ran
low.
The whole Ethanol Debate is a farce all petrol stations have a small percentage of water in there tanks which gets through to your gas tank thats why
they rust out.Where as ethanol can in high concentration can absorb some water and there for take the water out of your tank.Just like adding metho to
your tank.
Also in some states in the US have petrol that is cut with 50% ethanol and they have no problems. The story goes that the fedral gov wanted to do the
same in Australia but the oil companys started the ethanol smear campain and it looks like they have got most people hoodwinked about ethanol I say
bring it on first thing tomorrow i"ll go and fill up with ethanol.
Also the ethanol burn is cooler due to the formation of h20 in the combustion process, great for an air cooled car
|
|
|
tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
Custom Title Time!
That really hurts doesnt it!
Posts: 1171
Threads: 25
Registered: September 21st, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Huon Valley SouthernTasmania
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: Moody!
|
| posted on May 21st, 2005 at 09:27 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by tangblog
.... all petrol stations have a small percentage of water in there tanks which gets through to your gas tank thats why they rust out.
.......Also the ethanol burn is cooler due to the formation of h20 in the combustion process, great for an air cooled car
|
Running cooler by forming H20 in the combustion process eh? Ill bet that water has a big effect at combustion temps exceeding 1500Deg F!!
The coolness you are alluding to is associated with the inlet gas charge. I cant be bothered with a detailed explaination but to demonstrate this,
smear your hands with metho. What do you feel? Rather cold isnt it?
Decrease inlet gas temp and increased air density is the result. Put very simply, more air. add more fuel and get a bigger bang.
Running 50/50 alky/petrol is quite feasible but totally impractical as the rejetting required to run the car on this jungle juice renders the car
close to useless on straight petrol. Verrrrryy loosely speaking, you will need to increase the FLOW of your carb jets in the order of 50% to maintain
useful fuel/air ratios.
The upshot of this is pretty much 50% worse fuel economy.
This would be fine and dandy if every suburb had an outlet with 50/50 gasohol but this is not the case.
Furthermore, there is insufficient infrastructure to produce commerciall quantities of alky at a reasonable price hence the lack of outlets.
There are also adverse emission issues with alky. Its not as clean as the tree huggers would have you believe.
The water in service station tanks is largely a result of condensation and the same is true in your fuel tank.
Water is ever present in all fuel storage tanks and water is actually used as a seperator between different petroleum products being transported in
the same bulk pipeline.
After a bulk delivery, the water is drained off from the large depot storage tanks and the fuel is always taken off at a higher level than the water
level.
Water levels in depot and servo tanks are monitored on a regular basis.
Usually you may get some water during or immediately after a road delivery to a servo where the fuel has been stirred up. Fuel is fed to the tanks
from the road tanker via a standpipe and outlet near the bottom of the storage tanks, this is to minimise static charge buildup but also results in
the fuel being stirred up from the bottom.
So if a tanker is dropping fuel while you are filling up then this will most likely be the time you may get water.
Excessive water buildup and rusting in car tanks is largely the result of condensation buildup. Made worse by some dudes insistance on running the
tank at or near empty all the time.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
 posted on May 22nd, 2005 at 02:49 AM |
|
|
I love to read all these stories about Ethanol**
I used BOGAS which has Methanol in it , ]about 10% or lower I believe I read somewhere....] for a number of years in My Mitsubishi Magna and
Lancers.....
I only switched as I get 4 cents off at Caltex/Woolworths stations...
Its Law in the US to use ethanol with Gasoline, to help the Sugar Cane farmers.... The same should be done Here...
We have a service station in Scone that has a sign up saying
NO Ethanol.....
Lee
http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
Judsons4eva
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 270
Threads: 24
Registered: October 30th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on May 25th, 2005 at 09:42 PM |
|
|
Hey Guys. The Commonwealth Department of Environemnt funded a trial cost $4mill looking at the impacts of 20% ethanol in petrol on old and new cars.
This trial showed that in old cars they run leaner (hotter) and there were problems with corrosion and rubber parts going soft. In new cars over
80,000 kms some emissions blew out and valve recession increased and piston deposits inceased. On the basis of this trial it is illegal to use more
than 10% ethanol or E10. E10 is safe in most new cars but not always safe in old cars. Some European manufactuers advise againts E10 in new cars. It
has a cleaning effect and when put in fuel tanks that are dirty it tends to free up all the deposits and therefore clog the filters etc. It shouldn't
have any real bad effects on a Vw engine, it improves octane. Factory rubber parts should be OK but fuel lines and pump diaphrams of dobious origin
may go slightly soft over time. Fortunately Brazillian bit should be fine because they are tolerant to E22.
550 Porsche Spyder
56 Oval mit Judson
96 Porsche 993 C2
|
|
|
General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
Custom Title Time!
Use your head, don't abuse it!
Posts: 1036
Threads: 107
Registered: June 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Peaceful Finley, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Not too bad. Thanks for asking!
|
| posted on May 29th, 2005 at 12:19 AM |
|
|
I always found that ethanol doped fuel caused havoc with my cars. Mostly due to overheating. This is with 2 aircooleds and a ZL fairlane (ULP EFI).
Never really understood what ethanol did. Oddly enough I switched to PULP for everything.
Then I put in additives.
Just before my van's motor went again, straight after the topend rebuild, I opted for ULP instead (which had ethanol) as the repairs hurt my hip
pocket. 30km later dead van. Still dead too. This time around I am never using ULP.
It was a QLD summer so the heat coupled with the high compression of brand spanking rings, and high compression pistons (didn't know that at the
time). So it wasn't 100% the fuels fault. But the extra heat didn't help.
With a rejet etc, I wouldn't mind running ethanol doped fuel, but my van ran too hot anyway.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on May 29th, 2005 at 12:23 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
Nope Kim - it says 100% Ethanol
Have a look - its not far from you. On Vic Rd on RHS going to West Ryde
|
No way... car won't run. Someone has made an error with signage... 10% is an acceptable mix in petrol with no bad side effects
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
