| [ Total Views: 1738 | Total Replies: 32 | Thread Id: 41247 ] |
| Pages: 1 2 |
|
|
 hydra
Learner Dubber
Posts: 12
Threads: 4
Registered: June 17th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Lebanon/Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 12:51 AM |
|
|
Stiffening chassis on a type I
I did a search both on here an on google, and didn't find much of use... I'd like to know how to stiffen an early Beetle chassis enough to cope with
320bhp. First off, and I know a lot of you won't like this at all, a roll cage is OUT OF THE QUESTION - period. I know that Kafer cup braces are used
on the rear frame horns, and that there's some sort of "chassis stiffener" that mounts between the torsion bar housing and the bulkhead, but I
couldn't find any info about it. I also figured that the convertible pan reinforcements might prove to be useful as well... Any other suggestions or
ideas?
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 09:08 AM |
|
|
What engine are you running?
And what will the car be used for?nn[ Edited on 3-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
Che Castro
Custom Title Time!
ankle straps
Posts: 1945
Threads: 79
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: (( }:-{D]
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 09:15 AM |
|
|
Seam welding might help. I found on my '58 that a lot of the factory spot welds had pulled from 40+ years of use. There were also a few tears in
the actual sheet metal around the rear parcel shelf. This is where a few of the spot welds had pulled. There is a lot of factory seam sealer over
them at the back though which is quite difficult to remove. I did a few stitches over the rows of spot welds all around the back. Also thinking of
doing a few around the front of the body too.
Jon
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 09:44 AM |
|
|
all i can think off are what you mentioned above.
build a really good brace in the back, that ties the horns, torsion bars, shock towers all together ( 5 pieces kafer cup?). seam weld, and vert
chassis.
what about a rear engine mount of some kind, that mounts onto the bumper brackets? or even a offroad style bash plate running from infront of the
torsion tubes, back to the bumper braket mounts an tie stuf into that?
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 10:19 AM |
|
|
Hi
Im interested in this subject as well. Im building a WRX powered 1303. Ive had a really good look over the Targa Tasmania & London to Sydney rally car
that was built at Vintage VW supplies in Sydney. One of the things I noticed and will use are radiused sections at the base of the A & B pillars just
like a cabrio. Something I have given some thought to is the rear seat support that runs between both B pillars, Im going to make this stronger and
have it going up each B pillar a bit and have it bolted to the middle of the pan. Im also going make a angle steel section that will fit under chassis
were the pan bolts on, then the usual cup braces at the rear and a strut brace at the front and seam welding the pan & body. Im still researching this
subject and would welcome others thoughts on this subject.
Steve
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 06:10 PM |
|
|
Depends on whether you mean 'chassis' or the car, hence my question re engine/car
Try stitch-welds (not seam!) the frame horns both sides, inner body shell (each factory seam from gutter to floor plus inside wheel wells) support
braces from body to frame horns etc etc. Also front shock towers, buggy support braces between beam and body, delete pan/body seal for stiffer
assembly and radius door corners.
I am considering converting my early shell to late-model 68-on door catches (cut and shut B pillar etc) to prevent them from flying open: testing my
new brakes, the shell flexes enough to allow them to pop open... which is kinda a mix of :thumb and 
Use a late body for serious performance. As well as better door catches, they are stiffer
nn[ Edited on 4-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
71superbug
Custom Title Time!
The Itch Itcher
Posts: 1184
Threads: 72
Registered: May 20th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Subified
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 11:11 PM |
|
|
i also am interested in these processes, do you have any pics of what you mean steve?
as we all know..pictures tell a thousand words
Anthony
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 11:40 PM |
|
|
Hi
Next time I go over to Vintage for an ale I will take my camera.
Steve
|
|
|
Chewy
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 889
Threads: 75
Registered: July 18th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Geelong, Vic
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Buggered
|
| posted on July 4th, 2005 at 11:40 PM |
|
|
Whats the difference between a stitch and seam weld?
.
|
|
|
hydra
Learner Dubber
Posts: 12
Threads: 4
Registered: June 17th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Lebanon/Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 5th, 2005 at 02:44 AM |
|
|
First off I will be running a custom supercharged EJ25 which as I said should be good for over 320bhp. The project is more of an
engineering/hotrodding showcase really, and will NOT see any track time, just the occasional prod of the right foot :P
The car (a 1955 Oval) is to be sandblasted, which should remove all the factory seam sealer and expose all the spot welds, so that shouldn't be too
hard...
BiX, could you please describe this bash plate you refer to in further detail, or better yet point me in the direction of pics? I know its a cliche,
but a picture is worth a thousand words!
Keep the good stuff coming guys! :thumb
|
|
|
Che Castro
Custom Title Time!
ankle straps
Posts: 1945
Threads: 79
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: (( }:-{D]
|
| posted on July 5th, 2005 at 09:05 AM |
|
|
The cabrio radiused braces sound like a good idea. Anyone ever tried putting the kabrio reinforcement rails on a normal sedan? Hey VWCOOL, does
deleting the body to pan gasket make a noticeable difference? did you just use some kind of silicon to seal it instead?
Jon
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 5th, 2005 at 09:21 AM |
|
|
It was just an idea i had, was just trying to think outside the sqaure.
basicaly like a hideaway buggy engine cage, which you could then tie engine mounts, forks and mabye a kafer cup style brace into.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on July 5th, 2005 at 10:57 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Chewy
Whats the difference between a stitch and seam weld?
|
Stitches don't crack all the way along thier length - a crack (if it happens) is restricted to just one 'stitch' and can't travel to the next one.
Much betterer...nn[ Edited on 5-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
Che Castro
Custom Title Time!
ankle straps
Posts: 1945
Threads: 79
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, Australia
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: (( }:-{D]
|
| posted on July 5th, 2005 at 12:50 PM |
|
|
seam welds are long continuous welds. stitch welds are when you do short seams that are spaced apart. Stitch welding is preferable when you don't
want to put as much heat (and distortion) into the workpiece.
Seam
_____________________________
Stitch
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Jon
|
|
|
hydra
Learner Dubber
Posts: 12
Threads: 4
Registered: June 17th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Lebanon/Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on July 9th, 2005 at 10:59 PM |
|
|
So guys... any pics or new ideas?
|
|
|
bigbaja
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 438
Threads: 23
Registered: February 22nd, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: sick of waiting
|
| posted on July 9th, 2005 at 11:29 PM |
|
|
what about a 2 inch body lift like in a baja it does do the job rather nicely
that way it stiffens up all the way to the front as well
[size=4] Terry - Custom Off RoadComponents[/size]
28 Hayward Street, Stafford QLD 4053
Ph: (07) 3356 4356 - Fax: (07) 3356 6765 |
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
 posted on July 10th, 2005 at 11:34 AM |
|
|
Hydra,what you are suggesting without a rollcage is never going to be as effective......I would be thinking with some sort of box section cage work at
rear engine area Joining the forks of chassis to stronger points of body bulkhead.....With front joining from beam down to tunnel of chassis back to
Door Pillars.You are right pictures tell you a thousand words.Think of a shape like the letter "X" this would be the bracing shape.....VWcool stitch
work is:thumb ups and maybe look at what 1303 is suggesting.JVLRacing
|
|
|
malcolm
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 812
Threads: 102
Registered: November 14th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: werribee south vic
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: where did he go!!!!!!
|
| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 03:40 AM |
|
|
have alook how porsche mount their motors and brace them remove the floor pans an use box steel on the outer where the bolts run through to the body
and have a full cage linking through the body to pan and have a intrusion bar to stiffen the door area and a box section where the door hinges are
.Also if you are running the 55 pan you wont pass the cc size to orignal weight of a oval @ 760 kgs ,my car is a 56 and I,m using a 74 pan to get pass
vic roads new reg when it takes affect .to many chassis modes and your car might have to be registered along the same lines as a kit car .Seam
welding isn,t safe or practical for street due to the fact if the car develops a tear it will run the lenght of the weld stitch is better and using a
late model engine orignal ecu must be used in vic and maybe other states as well and some engineers look for the map sensor coming out of the ecu box
which is a give away on after market ecus.Altonics have ecu boards that replace the orignal boards and maybe Richard Albort could provide an exsternal
map sensor all the best anyway.
|
|
|
Jeza
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 353
Threads: 23
Registered: January 9th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Spinning
|
| posted on July 19th, 2005 at 02:25 PM |
|
|
I'll bring this post back up to the top again as I've finally found the site where I saw some chassis bracing... It may help with ideas.
http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/
Good luck
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on July 19th, 2005 at 11:57 PM |
|
|
Hi
I like those floor pan stiffeners, does anyone know if 1 1/4 x 2 inch tube is avaible here? I prefer the CSP style Kafer cup brace. Im hoping to make
mine from VW tie rods, thats if I can get the correct ends in the metric thread.
Steve
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on July 20th, 2005 at 12:22 AM |
|
|
Hi
Just did a search 50.8 x 31.8 x 1.6 Edcon Steel have it listed.
Steve
|
|
|
jvl054
Wolfsburg Wizard
Posts: 403
Threads: 11
Registered: May 28th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: pure tubular adrenalin subiepower
|
| posted on July 20th, 2005 at 08:32 AM |
|
|
Hydra,Buy the latest hotvws mag 20/6/05. Inside there a race bug inside .....Christian Stelzer 2.6 drifter....he uses cross bracing tube for
stiffening of car.Great info check it out! basically what i said in my firt post.JVLRacing
|
|
|
Jeza
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 353
Threads: 23
Registered: January 9th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Spinning
|
| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 07:04 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by jvl054
Hydra,Buy the latest hotvws mag 20/6/05. Inside there a race bug inside .....Christian Stelzer 2.6 drifter....he uses cross bracing tube for
stiffening of car.Great info check it out! basically what i said in my firt post.JVLRacing
|
or check out the same car on the wesite
http://www.vw1303rs.de/
Nice car, and he's had it for ages and improved it as hes gone.
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 11:29 AM |
|
|
Hi
Sorry to dig up an old post, I found these photos on my camera of some A & B pillar strengthening on a friends bug.
Steve
|
|
|
VWCOOL
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 5158
Threads: 235
Registered: June 19th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: In the shed... Lake Macquarie NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: happy to help
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 04:05 PM |
|
|
Looks good.. but keep in mind this sort of strengthening is not allowed in some comp classes and MAY be frowned upon for engineering for street rego
purposes
Pay your debts, CxxT
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 04:15 PM |
|
|
Hi
I hadn't thought about it with rego in mind, its basically what's done on factory cabrios. My car would be considered a sport sedan by CAMS I
suppose anyway.
Steve
|
|
|
The Bigfella
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 284
Threads: 16
Registered: September 9th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Lotsa German cars, 1 Brit, 1 Rice
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 04:39 PM |
|
|
Hmm - did something similar on mine too - but not as nice as that.
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 05:23 PM |
|
|
Hi
They were made and installed by Kurt Martenson, he’s a renowned car restorer, street machine and hot rodder in the Gong. He painted VW54s Sea blue
sunroof bug and his orange smoothy, he also painted my old yellow bug, that's why they look so good.
Steve
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 07:02 PM |
|
|
ive seen a few hack job convertables done the same way
i cant see how theyd be a problem with rego
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8650
Threads: 564
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on March 4th, 2008 at 09:48 PM |
|
|
Hi
I suppose that they could impede entry and exit from the car, you wouldn't want to get your seat belt caught in them and try to close the door.
Steve
|
|
|
| Pages: 1 2 |
