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posted on July 7th, 2005 at 10:46 PM
Body Question
I've had this welded, a new lower apron. The weld is great and clean. What is the process of turning high spot welds into flat metal again.
I think it is...
grinding down the high spots to the original body, then applying an etch primier, then bog coat, rub it back, spray putty, rub that back, hit it wil
paint and then rub it back, then a skim coat of offending areas.
Sorry if his is simplistic. I have read the 'tech articles', loved Mr Hellbus' Beetle one, but got a bit lost with some of the others...I'm a
newbie.
I am planning on starting with a 74 decklid. Its painted okay now, but I want to rub it back to metal, fix imperfections, paint it and then finally
airbrush it (that part I'm okay with).
Anyone out there got the time to give me a simple guide to the process. I'm working up the courage to do my Panel...figure I'd start simple. Spent
too much money getting the rust removed and new metal hand formed to stuff it up.
Been advised that 2pac paint is the go - not sure what that really means - I thought he was a rapper - someone else told me Acrylic - but Mr Hellbus
sort of said that being waterbased, it might not be the finish I might like. Basically I don't have an oven, but do have a factory unit, so an a
hobby painter....
Thanks
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helbus
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posted on July 8th, 2005 at 12:06 AM
You have pretty much got the cleaning down of the welds right. To get the welds nice and smooth a great product to use on the grinder is a 'flap
disc'. I would not expect a mega hardware store salesperson to know what one is, but simply it is like a grinding wheel, but with flaps of sandpaper
on it. Specifically designed for blending welds. Probably better to get from an industrial tool place like Brentools, Rotary Tools, Alltools,
Blackwoods etc.
Acrylic car paint is not water based. It is Acrylic laquer. Thinners based. 2 Pac is Urethane Enamel based and requires an activating agent to dry,
whereas the acrylic laquer dries by itself. The debate on which is better can go on forever.
Simply acrylic is cheaper, quicker air drying, less toxic, easier to apply, can be touched up easier. But is affected by solvents easier, can dull
quicker, needs more maintenance, more labour intensive to get a shinier finish
2 Pac is quicker oven drying, not affected by solvents easily, stays very shiny, little maintenance, quick for someone experienced to apply. But is
dearer, needs hardener to dry, needs oven to paint, is very toxic, harder to apply, needs more expensive equipment, harder to touch up.
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posted on July 8th, 2005 at 10:56 PM
oh crap, now I've opened up a gap in the ol' noggin that will need to be filled. Thanks for that.
Perhaps, one solution might be for me to grind down the welds, do the pre-paint work and aim to get a painter to do the 'top coat', not saving all
the money, but at least letting me get some experience in prep, which at least the painter can reject (if the painter is someone I know or trust),
else they take my money anyway.
So I bought a 74 decklid, figure I'd do the Pepsi challenge. Paint half in 2 pac and half in Ac. A bit of a self-test. I'm sure if I get it all
wrong it will get this out my system. I do some airbrush stuff, so figure it must be a similar method of application.
What would you recommend as a process. What first, next, etc.,
I've got no rust or dint's in the decklid, so lets assume I've used something like 3Ms strip and clean disc to get all the paid off, and it's all
metal. (if you have time, or haven't fallen asleep)!
Bloody learners.....
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posted on July 9th, 2005 at 12:04 PM
after you have clean and strip disked the panel, you my find imperfections, that old bog was hiding... if you havnt stripped it already that is...
then you need a 5mm orbital sander, and some P80, 120, 180, and 320 disks
work the panel with the 80, to remove the clean and strip disk scratches, and work your way down the grades to 320 - once at 320, your ready to
prime.. make sure u wear a dust mask, as sanding just plain metal often leaves you with a gross taste in your mouth, from breathing the metal in..
at the 320 starge i would prepsol the panel one rag wipe on, one rag wipe off.. then get 2 new rags and do it again.. if there is a lot of grey muck
on the rags after the second run, do it a third time
then apply etch primer.. Spies Hecker have a 1k etching product "4080" i think it is,or Glasurit have a 2 park, etch that is etch/activator.. not
hardener 1-2 coats of eityher of these, then your ready to "HS".. or "Hi-Fill"..
there are acrylic and 2pak primers.. and untill yesterday i had never used acrylic before.. i use Glasurit 2k "High Solid" primer, if there are no
repairs (no filler at all) then you'll only need 2 nice coats of HS, allow to dry overnight, with some warmth or bake in booth for 40mins-hour.. if
no repairs and only 2 coats of primer, then you can use a 3mm orbital sander with P500 disks to flatten everything, avoiding any edged.. then 6-800
wet to knock down the edges and round them all off.. then your ready for colour...
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posted on July 9th, 2005 at 02:47 PM
mmm, I don't have a booth, so guess I'm looking at Ac then. Thanks for the fantasic advice - think I'm gonna be hanging out in this corner of the
forum.
//I get the first step thanks to you guys now ... you say hadn't used ac primer before ... do you think it's okay - does it then mean I have to use
ac. top coats too?
//What about the guns. I've got a paint gun - standard looking thing, and a smaller touch up gun, but saw a spray putty gun - do I need to get that
too?
It all sounds great, don't mind the work ... but definately feel more confident. But that's just me, I hate not understanding the process, and not
being able to spot bs if it's handed out.
Sounds like with a lot of hard work and care, then it's not an impossible thing to do. Just try and get it checked - and I do know someone for that,
but don't wanna be a leech. Guess eveyone whos a painter aint short of mates.....
Thanks again. Look forward to your posts guys.
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posted on July 9th, 2005 at 02:57 PM
Here's my 2c:
Forget two-pack until/unless you are experienced and have a lot of dedicated equipment... Acrylic is good stuff and although it needs a little more
prep/work (even if you are a pro) it can still be made to look sensational!
Don't use abrasive to strip off old paint back to bare metal. It 'upsets' the surface of the steel and promotes rust. Use paint stripper instead.
Pay your debts, CxxT
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posted on July 9th, 2005 at 03:15 PM
in the prestiege panel shop i work at we strip with stripper, then clean and strip, then use abraisives the metal needs to be abraided for anything to
stick - cannot paint on a shiney surface. aslong as you clean with prepsol thorourly.dry off well, then etch prime you will not have rust issues.
im not sure if u can paint acrylic over 2pak primer.. as i'v only used acrylic once - and i used acrylic primer with it
but if u can, that would be the best! 2k primer is easy to apply, and easy to rub - and gives a good build with minimal fuss.. and i agree acrylic
would be the best for you to paint with as it is very easy to apply, hard to make a mess of, and it's satisfying rubbing the clear nice and flat, and
then buffing the shit out of it
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posted on July 13th, 2005 at 09:02 PM
Visited the local paint shop today, after spending the weeked watching hours of Custom Paint DVDs from the states.
Maan, it's a whole new world out there, all good though.
Picked up a good decklid to practice on, guy said 500ml or base coat, 500ml of primer will do ... gonna kick off in Acrylic, as I want to airbrush
with bases and 'candy'. He said to ...
1. Rub it with Prepsol
2. Rub back the old paint - which is good - with 80 upwards as you need.
3. Rub that with Prepsol
4. Paint it with a low pressure gun in primer in off white grey. Hit it twice
5. Leave it for 12 hours
6. Spray with darker colour as a reference for rubbing back.
7. Give that light Presol - get rid of the oils etc.,
8. Sand that back working 80 up to 1200 wet and dry
9. Light rub with Prepsol
10. Paint one coat with chosen base.
11. Wait 12 hours
12. Paint second coat (if needed) - then wait again
13. Rub back with 1200 wet and dry
14. Go mad with the airbrush
15. Rub that lightly with 1200 wet and dry
16. Cover with clear
17. Wait 24 hours
18. Cover again with clear.
19. Wait 24 hours
20. Buff the crap out of it.
Phew, 20 things to do....is that right? Please feel free to cut and paste and correct.
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posted on July 14th, 2005 at 10:12 PM
1. Rub it with Prepsol - why? your taking the top layer of paint off anyway
2. Rub back the old paint - which is good - with 80 upwards as you need. - 80 is for if u want to go back to bare metal - if the paint is good - not
scratched or chipped at all.. u can just rubn it with 800 wet, to flatten it all off, and matt it up and not even prime it - but u do wanna prime it,
so go 320dry, and prime straight onto that, try not to rub through if u can
3. Rub that with Prepsol - yep cos next your gonna apply paint make sure u dry the prepsol off really well with a dry rag - prepsol residue is as bad
as dirt.. and dont touch the panel with your hands if u can help it - the oilsin your hands can affect the finish..
4. Paint it with a low pressure gun in primer in off white grey. Hit it twice - if its acrylic primer, you put thin coats on, and build them up - i'd
go 6 coats of acrylic primer (speis hecker) go for 3, maybe 4 coats of primer if u have enough..
5. Leave it for 12 hours - nice safe time.. just leave it over night
6. Spray with darker colour as a reference for rubbing back. you just haze it - like in helbus' tutorial
7. Give that light Presol - get rid of oils etc.
8. Sand that back working 80 up to 1200 wet and dry just use 600 then 800 wet for a penel ready to apply base to using anything coarser will tear off
the primer, and leave scratches.. if u have a lot of primer on there, u can block it using 240 dry first, then re-guide coat it, for 6-800 make sure u
get all the 240 scratches out!
9. Light rub with Prepsol - yep, so ur ready for base, again keep your hands off the panel
10. Paint one coat with chosen base.
11. Wait 12 hours -WHAT? air it off till it loses it's gloss, and slap another coat on it - repeat untill u get complete coverage - and dont load it
up to cover in one coat - light coats dry a LOT quicker than one fat heavy coat
12. Paint second coat (if needed) - then wait again - forget 12
13. Rub back with 1200 wet and dry - acrylic loves water with its paper,so keep that paper nice and wet
14. Go mad with the airbrush - post some piccies for us
15. Rub that lightly with 1200 wet and dry i'd use 1500-2000 lightly {DRY - no water this time}
16. Cover with clear
17. Wait 24 hours - allow it to lose it's gloss not 24 hrs
18. Cover again with clear.
19. Wait 24 hours - allow it to lose it's gloss not 24 hrs, and repeat this process untill u have 5-6 coats on, you dont want to cat straight through
the clear and wreck your airbrushing
20. Buff the crap out of it sounds about right..
this is how i would handel it.. using the acrylic products that i have, and my experience in a few panel shops..others may say to do it differently..
there are many variations but this will get u a good result if the products u are using are anythiong like what i have used..
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posted on July 14th, 2005 at 10:14 PM
if you rub the old paint all the way back to metal, you'll need to etch prime.. just 320ing will key the panel up enough for primer - if the paint is
good, thats all you'll need.. if there anre some "iffy" patches, 240 to "feather" them out, and then go over with 320 - you dont want to apply
primer over scratches coarser than 320 and probably not finer than 400
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posted on July 14th, 2005 at 10:53 PM
thanks
Thanks Damien.
Just scored a 67 Panel, that's had the prep work done on the body and it's in high fill, so just needs a rub and top coat. Searching now for someone
to help out. Still gonna do my other - other panel myself I think, but need one sooner for a project, Going Dove Blue all over to make life simple.
Thanks for the input.nn[ Edited on 18-7-2005 by crewcabconnection ]
