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 76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 07:51 PM |
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Engine gettin harder to start
Just after a couple of runs in the bus (i dont drive it often.. its mine and i only got L's) Its starting to get harder and harder to start. It used
to start without the starter motor reving for a while, now it takes bout 2 seconds of reving then it just start. and thats with gas. What can be
causing this?? I dont think its a battery issue but i will try charging it tonite and seeing if that makes a difference.
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
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| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 07:54 PM |
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M8
Iffen your only winding a infrequently run engine over for about 2 seconds before it fires then Id say cewl, running well enough!
I would suggest you go over the ignition system thoroughly and ensure all the settings are correct, plugs and points are in good condition and
soforth.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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Robo
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on July 21st, 2005 at 08:15 PM |
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Yeah a new set of points in mine makes heaps of difference.
Rob...
Boxer Power
Member of DMLRK.....Die Mittler Lebuns Resto Komeradschaft
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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Use your head, don't abuse it!
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| posted on July 22nd, 2005 at 12:17 PM |
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Nothing at all wrong with 2 secs. But if you reckon that you need to give it some throttle, that is a problem. The engine should start with no
throttle, apart from the pre-start stab for the autochoke.
This may sound stupid, but check your vacuum lines. My van was hard to start for ages until I discovered the brake booster vacuum L pieces had
stretched. A couple of hose clamps later a big improvement was felt.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 22nd, 2005 at 06:50 PM |
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Its not reaaally bad, but it seems to be getting worse. It still starts really quick but takes a while to get upto fast idle rpm (like 2sec's)
instead of instantly.
I have noticed i have 3 oil leaks now :-(!!!! They are drippers, just leaking a bit... will try and sort them out. Also fixed up the fuel evapouration
system...
Im not sure how to replace the points etc, but will look into it... We didnt really touch the distributor except sand the point (???) and reset the
gap when we did the rebuild. Thanx for the quick replies... any other ideas?
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
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| posted on July 23rd, 2005 at 01:15 PM |
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The nafarious practise of sanding points and rotor buttons and picking out the white gunge that collects on the dizzy cap contact areas is a prime
cause of misfifing and hard starting. It is a practise that goes waaay back to the dark, old days when points and stuff were far less affordable and
available than they are now and the practise is simply tight arsed penny pinching these days.
Putting sandpaper between the points and scrubibing usually results in the contact faces not contacting evenly, further causing dramas. The initial
result usually feels Ok but due to reduced contact face area, arcing and crud buildup un the point faces occurrs very quickly and sanding the points
becomes necessary more and more often.
The same is true of filing points with a "points file" with a rough hand.
Sanding the top of the rotor button where it contacts that little carbon pin in the dizzy cap is another old furphy that usually results in dirt and
grunge as well as condensation collecting in the scratches. This results in conductive paths along which the spark can travel resulting in crossfiring
and misfiring. Prolonged running under these conditions forms tiny carbon "tracks" in the scratches that often conduct spark energy in plenty of
directions other than where you want it to go.
Couple this with the decreased spark energy from crappy worn down points and increased air gaps to the dizzy contact points due to picking and
scratching out of the white grunge that forms on the contacts and undue filing of the metal end of the rotor button ends up with a very shitty running
engine that is usually difficult to start, especially when cold and damp and runs particularly shitty when cold.
Moral of the story is to never pinch pennies with ancient points/coil systems by sanding points, dizzy caps and rotor buttons.
It is acceptable to carefully scrape the accumulated grunge off the point faces if missfiring is actually occurring with something like a gem blade or
very careful scraping with a points file, JUST enough to remove the crap but not enough to re-shape the point faces. If the point faces are really
burnt and deformed, chuck them away and replace them with new items and replace the points capacitor (condenser) as well. They are not expensive.
Always ensure you are using a 12V coil in a 12V application and same for 6V blah blah. If you are using a GT40R coil then always use a ballast
resisitor with it or rapid point burning will occur.
NEVER pick out the white gunge that forms in the dizzy cap contact faces, grit you teeth and leave it there. Dont make the job of the spark more
difficult than it already is forcing it to go somwehere else. Down the coil output tower and across to the electrical terminals is a common one and
can be seen at night quite easily!
NEVER EVER sand the top of the rotor button where the carbon pin contacts it nor file the metal contact end. Just wipe off the carbon dust with a
clean rag.
High plug wire resistance is another gremlin that often appears with very old supressed plug wires so if you use them and are chasing hard starting
and miss-firing, NEVER discount the leads just becaue ther "look alright". The carbon impregnated cores of the suppressed leads can break due to
rough handling and constant flexing over a long time, often right near the plug connection due to rough handling when pulling off the plugs and
sparking occurs in there and slowly but surely, the core erodes away and the leads end up with enough internal resistance to cause missfiring. This
will often never show up with a simple multimeter resistance test and is why the engine tuners use an ocilliscope to look at the individual plug wire
voltages.
The Kettering ignition system (points/coil) was very modern about 80 years ago or so and in peak condition, works adequately, but requires regular
routine maintenance to get the best out of and in a VW, this is often overlooked.
VW's with their very low compression ratios and pitiful specific power ouputs are quite tolerant of shit ignition systems, hence the reluctance of
most apart from the Hi-Po engine and race guys to regularly do careful maintenance or just fit something "modern" (electronic)
The old adage is very relevant in kraut ignitions, "if in doub-chuck it out"
Happy ignitioning men.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 23rd, 2005 at 03:00 PM |
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thanx for that, very helpful!
| Quote: |
ends up with a very shitty running engine that is usually difficult to start, especially when cold and damp and runs particularly shitty when cold.
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sounds familiar. But i was thinking it was more a tuning the carbs problem? Anyways, will look into some new parts!!
thanx again, im sure im not the only one who will benefit from that!
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
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| posted on July 23rd, 2005 at 03:33 PM |
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A lot of time can be spent chasing "carb tuning" when often its the poor old ignition system simply not keeping up.
Good luck with it tho M8
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 23rd, 2005 at 05:05 PM |
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Yea, it seems to run fine besides being a little harder to start and and cutting out when i come to a stop (use the engine to brake and then push the
clutch in and the revs just slowly go down till the engine stops. Sometimes im quick enough to tap the gas and it fixes stops it from cutting out.
Guess i will get the ignition sorted then the carbs. Thanx again
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tassupervee
A.k.a.: Knob Jockey
Custom Title Time!
That really hurts doesnt it!
Posts: 1171
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| posted on July 24th, 2005 at 01:30 PM |
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Good moove M8, best of luck with it.
l8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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