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 General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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 posted on August 24th, 2005 at 12:02 PM |
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Fixed! I can get an ignition spark. Just not when I should!
This may sound stupid, but it appears the van has lost its ignition spark now.
No matter what I do I can't get the engine to catch. Even in its weakened state it'd always start burning pretty much immediately.
Last week I pulled out the distributor to check the point gap. It's easier after all. Since then it's not working.
the dizzy shaft is engaged properly. The timing is correct. All other devices feeding from the coil are still working.
The only part of the electrics I touched was the condenser lead. Ie unplugged it to remove the dizzy.
When I did the static timing to check the timing was still good, the lamp turned on an off just as it should. There is one difference though. I used
to hear a healthy little 'click' come from the distributor cap, which I always remove to do static timing. I'm not getting that anymore.
I'm only one person so I can't crank and plug in a test sparky either. What can i do to test my problem further.
The coil is a GT40 that would have only had 100 hours operation absolute max.nn[ Edited on 27-8-2005 by General_Failure ]nn[ Edited on 28-8-2005 byGeneral_Failure ]
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 12:36 PM |
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OK - if the click is gone then you aint getting spark - you NEED click.!!
Did you put the condenser coil back on the negative??
It the power wire still connected to the positive??
Are your points opening and closing???
Futue te ipsum!!!
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 03:52 PM |
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The condenser is indeed on the -ve. Connection seems to be good too.
The power wire is still on +ve.
The points are opening and closing. Static timing with a lamp still functions. Ie light goes on and off when i rotate the distributor.
Everything appears to still be in the correct places. Current is definitely flowing because the carb solenoids and the fuel pump all connect to the
coil +ve and they still work fine.
on the -ve we have the lead that feeds back into the loom, the tacho and the condenser.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 04:44 PM |
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Rotor pushed on all the way?
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 05:11 PM |
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yep. double checked the rotor.
I just got back from the shops and had to deal with a minor disaster. I had the battery in the van, connected and charging with the battery charger.
The battery overflowed! There was a nice big puddle on the ground. I gave everything a good wash off.
Anyway, Something I noticed. When I crank the car the tacho doesn't register any revs.
This has got me stumped. I think tonight I'll pull out the distributor again and give it a good lookover.
edit:
I forgot to say this. When I pulled out the distributor to check the points, they were spot on so they didn't need any adjusting.
I put a new dab of grease on too.nn[ Edited on 24-8-2005 by General_Failure ]
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Old Dubber
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 05:53 PM |
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| Quote: |
I put a new dab of grease on too.nn
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on what?
Turn engine over till points are closed.
Turn ignition on
With a piece of plastic (or something that will not conduct) prise open the points.
Do you get a spark at the points?
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 06:28 PM |
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I put the grease on the...uhh... the fibre thing that rubs on the distributor cam. I can't believe I forgot its name. I guess I should check if any
of it has found its way into the points. Doubtful but possible.
I just want to make sure I'm clear on what you are saying. Do I look for a spark at the points upon opening them?
If I get a spark, is it good or bad? I would have thought bad but I'm not 100% sure.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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pod
A.k.a.: paul mrvw061
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 06:40 PM |
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sounds like your tacho wiring coud be shorting out and earthing out your dizzy,you can check for spark at the points with a normal screw driver as
when you try and pry the points apart they should spark
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 24th, 2005 at 08:45 PM |
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I'll try unplugging the tacho too.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 09:34 AM |
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I'd say you've got a short between the coil and the side of the points connected to the coil. The same thing happened to me and I eventually
discovered the insulation on the wire from the points had worn through and was shorting to the side of the distributor.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 11:21 AM |
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I disconnected the tacho for the test. I did the points separation thing. Big sparks each time I separated. What does that mean?
Oh, and the points are still opening just fine.
Could it be the coil? 
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 12:05 PM |
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The coil produces the high voltage needed to make a spark. You just said the points have good spark, so presumably the coil is OK.
I remember that rotors have a resistor sealed inside in between the centre and the end of the arm... dunno if these resistors can fail?
I think you need to get a multimeter to test connectivity in every part of the entire system... but I'm guessing it'll be nearer the plug end of the
system than the battery end, because you are getting spark at the points.
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 04:20 PM |
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ohhh, i see. I always thought the points were 12v not HT.
Usually when I have the distributor cap off and I'm doing the timing, the spark is strong enough to arc out from the rotor button to one of the spark
plugs.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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pod
A.k.a.: paul mrvw061
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 07:32 PM |
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maybe the condenser has gone west as you will get spark from the coil but not to the plugs
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Old Dubber
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 08:03 PM |
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| Quote: |
Big sparks each time I separated. What does that mean?
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That's good, means you are getting current through the points.
Sometimes new points have grease on the "points" and do not conduct current. And that's why I asked where you put the grease!!!
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I remember that rotors have a resistor sealed inside in between the centre and the end of the arm... dunno if these resistors can fail?
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Yes, check these pics http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/vwdcqimages/insideaignitionbits/insideaignitionbits.html#layer28
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Usually when I have the distributor cap off and I'm doing the timing, the spark is strong enough to arc out from the rotor button to one of the spark
plugs.
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WOW, the spark jumps over a foot????????
explain further?
I agree with "Purple Martin" start checking -
the rotor
plug wires
wires plugged into cap
wires plugged into plug connectors
plug connectors
plugs
or maybe the battery voltage is now down enough not to give you enough good spark?
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BiX
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 09:13 PM |
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Also try pulling a plug out and earth the surround to the engine block, (hold the lead well away form teh plug) and turn the engine over and you
should get spark.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 25th, 2005 at 10:34 PM |
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I meant the spark would jump from the rotor button to one of the spark plug electrodes in the cap.
Multimeter time, eh?
The plug leads couldn't have suddenly all failed at the same time. The coil lead on the other hand...
All the physical connections are fine. I've triple checked everything is secure.
I have a spare coil, and condenser (whole dizzy actually) so I'll have to try that.
The theory of the voltage being too low interests me. I swapped out my rotten old battery with another one. It's even worse. Refuses to charge to
full voltage. Taking that one back in the next couple of days. Even with the old battery though it was still sparking okay.
I've got the 'new' battery on the charge again. I'll see how it's feeling tomorrow.
I'll check everything in the new day. Too dark out and I doubt i'll be allowed out. had enough trouble getting to use the PC.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 26th, 2005 at 01:11 PM |
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A little update:
The rotor has continuity, so it's not that.
Swapped in my old coil. Tried to start. Didn't seem to make any difference.
Pulled out the distributor again. There is a small dent in the condenser. I'll try swapping that too. It seems most likely.
edit:
I just put in the old distributor to do a quick test. The results were pretty much the same. Although all I did was crank. The stupid battery gave out
again, so I couldn't do much more.nn[ Edited on 27-8-2005 by General_Failure ]
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 27th, 2005 at 05:44 PM |
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Now there's an ignition spark. Just not when I want
I had another crack at it today.
I did a static timing. Left the engine where it was.
I pulled out sparky lead #1, because the engine was poised to fire on 1. I shoved a sparky in the end and earthed it and proceeded to turn the engine
back and forth over where #1 ignition should be happening. Nothing. No spark. And yet the points still spark healthily.
Here's the killer. I disconnected the carb solenoids etc while I was testing. One of the leads drifted onto the coil -ve. Hey presto, the test plug
sparked!
I repeated this heaps of times. A spark every time. And yet I get no spark by normal means. This is with 2 different distributors too. Weird.
Any ideas?
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Old Dubber
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| posted on August 27th, 2005 at 06:57 PM |
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Something is shorting out the coil.
Check your getting 12 volts to the Positive + side of the coil,
even when your turning the starter.
Take any other wires from this terminal.
Negitive - side of coil to distributer.
Take any other wires from this terminal.
What happens now?
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Bizarre
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| posted on August 27th, 2005 at 07:17 PM |
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sometimes the wire coming out of the condenser peels its insulation and shorts out at the bottom??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 28th, 2005 at 01:15 AM |
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Everything except +, HT and the condenser were disconnected for the test. It was one of the solenoid wires that drifted onto the - of the coil.
Interesting theory with the condenser. But It's the same problem with two different distributor assemblies including the condenser.
If the test light works, ie goes on and off when it should that means the system should be working properly, right? It's light on for points open and
light off for points closed isn't it?
I'll have another play in the new day and see what transpires. Thanks for your help so far everyone.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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last celtic warrior
A.k.a.: Steve Barnes
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| posted on August 28th, 2005 at 01:49 PM |
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Umm... What sort of grease did you use?
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on August 28th, 2005 at 11:08 PM |
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I fixed it.
Today I did the static timing again. for some reason the rotor was about 45 degrees off from where it should have been on the cap. Weird.
Pulled everything out again. Swapped over the condensers with some difficulty and put the new distributor back in. Re-did the timing again. Hey
presto, a spark!
During the process I discovered the connector in the old distributor for the condenser had come adrift. it would have been intermittently shorting
between ground and the points due to its position.
I'm assuming the condenser on the new distributor was dead. So mystery solved.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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pod
A.k.a.: paul mrvw061
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| posted on August 28th, 2005 at 11:53 PM |
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good to see :thumb had a condensor go in a mates car whilst about 30ks from home and at night and trying to get somewhere to leave the car overnight
and get picked up to get back home ,was fun i can tell you
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