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Author: Subject: Gene Berg trophy
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posted on September 24th, 2005 at 03:32 PM


Quote:
Quote:
quote]Originally posted by VWCOOL
Yes that's right.


Now that you've agreed, how many cars that won the GBT tophy in previous years, actually won it legitimately. That's what started off this debate in the first place.....

quote]Originally posted by VWCOOL
Hey, forget the 'how may owners out there blah blah' argument. Cops will laugh at you - and so will a magistrate


When was the last time you heard of a cop/magistrate asking what capacity your engine was?? seriously.......:rolleyes:

Cheersnn[ Edited on 24-9-2005 by Flintstones ]
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posted on September 24th, 2005 at 04:40 PM


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Flintstones
quote]Originally posted by VWCOOL
Yes that's right.


Now that you've agreed, how many cars that won the GBT tophy in previous years, actually won it legitimately.....

quote]Originally posted by VWCOOL
Hey, forget the 'how may owners out there blah blah' argument. Cops will laugh at you - and so will a magistrate


When was the last time you heard of a cop/magistrate asking what capacity your engine was?? seriously.......:rolleyes:

Cheers


"Blah blah blah"


EDIT: I'm pretty sure Leigh Harris has won the GB trophy in the past with his Turbo 59. It's enginered and legalnn[ Edited on 25-9-2005 by VWCOOL ]




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posted on September 25th, 2005 at 07:33 PM


Theres' two issues - road legal and racing legal. as has been pointed out racing rules are clear full stop that is, no interpretation is required. Road registered is not road registerable like event registration or rally rego. How many cars on race day are more than 100mm off the deck????? But thats the point its not racing in road trim. Now that would be funny, slow yes but funny. Anyrate I digress. It shits me that anyone with an original thought is branded a cheat, or worse illegally winning a trophy. Get over it, turn all that mental energy into coming up with a way to make more efficient power rather than bitchin. There's far too much tall poppy syndrome in motor sport - that shits me too, its supposed to be fun..........

It may be obvious but the guys that are out competing for the trophy all know what the rules are, everyone has studied the regs, everyone knows there are turbo cars, its not like its new technology. To change the rules simply because the vehicle you race may have insufficient technology to be competitive, is simply not a good enough arguement. The rules haven't changed any. The trophy is less about parity than consistancy, ingenuity and winning. Leave it as it is - it is up to everyone else to reach the benchmark not the other way round.




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posted on September 25th, 2005 at 09:49 PM


Well put Flashman.



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posted on September 26th, 2005 at 08:34 AM


There are all sorts of 'related' topics and points of view coming into this discussion - some good, some bad. I don't think any AVDubbers with any experience with the GB trophy has ever questioned the turbo cars - turbos have legitimately and rightfully won in the past, as have healthy NA cars. The issue, as I see it, is 'registration' and the associated legal obligations, not what sort of intake system the car has



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posted on September 26th, 2005 at 11:48 AM


That is true . But what capacity were the turbo cars in the past ?
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posted on September 26th, 2005 at 09:56 PM


Without getting into politics the issue here is not registration at all - it is simply whether or not race cars on race day comply with ADR's.

None do - I could go on for three days listing ADR's where race vehicles' simply do not comply - Ride height, Noise restrictions
and NON STANDARD EXHAUST to name a few. I have read and heard many arguements - the common bitch is getting around registration.


Boys you can't have your cake and eat it too - It is either all or nothing. Change is change, if you want to change it then get real about the rules. Everyone knows a dodgy machanic or engineer, I won't go there - but if the powers that be are seriously considering travelling down this road then maybe it is about time scrutineers look for roadworthy in these cars, rather than the plate on the front. Just a thought.

And while you are thinking about it, think about how many race cars would pass a pit inspection run by the RTA Rules.

It would certainly make for Australians Funniest Home Videos at scrutineering time.

My position though has not changed. registration = competitor full stop




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posted on September 26th, 2005 at 10:11 PM


The GB trophy is not about race cars. It is about street cars. Registered ones. And by inference, street-legal ones. Do you not realise this?! We are not talking about race cars!



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posted on September 27th, 2005 at 02:24 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by VWCOOL
The GB trophy is not about race cars. It is about street cars. Registered ones. And by inference, street-legal ones. Do you not realise this?! We are not talking about race cars!



Semantics, race cars and cars that race - Whats the difference, ones got a registration plate and one has not? What some people cant get their head around is the one with the plate is eligible. end of story.

See the irony - this simple fact is the whole driving force behind the discussion. Road Registered in some ppls view does not equate to street legal on race day. What's driving the divide is the mistaken belief that cars which appear not to be street legal on race day are illegitimate starters/winners for the trophy.

I agree that it is incongruent a road registered car on race day, which does not comply with ADR's and hence not technically street legal, is still recognised a competitor. BUT that ladies and gentlemen is the rules of the G/B Trophy, the race car only has to be registered.

registered = racingnn[ Edited on 27/9/2005 by flashman ]




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posted on September 27th, 2005 at 02:29 PM


A sticker and number plates does not mean a car is registered.

nn[ Edited on 27-9-2005 by VDubya ]
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posted on September 27th, 2005 at 05:10 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by flashman
Quote:
Originally posted by VWCOOL
The GB trophy is not about race cars. It is about street cars. Registered ones. And by inference, street-legal ones. Do you not realise this?! We are not talking about race cars!



Semantics, race cars and cars that race - Whats the difference, ones got a registration plate and one has not? What some people cant get their head around is the one with the plate is eligible. end of story.

See the irony - this simple fact is the whole driving force behind the discussion. Road Registered in some ppls view does not equate to street legal on race day. What's driving the divide is the mistaken belief that cars which appear not to be street legal on race day are illegitimate starters/winners for the trophy.

I agree that it is incongruent a road registered car on race day, which does not comply with ADR's and hence not technically street legal, is still recognised a competitor. BUT that ladies and gentlemen is the rules of the G/B Trophy, the race car only has to be registered.

registered = racingnn[ Edited on 27/9/2005 by flashman ]


But of it doesn't apply with ADRS etc it CAN'T be registered.... so therefore isn't eleigible for the GB trophy... but where does this all end?!!




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posted on September 27th, 2005 at 06:06 PM


Pre 72 cars dont have to comply with most of the adr's that are a pain in the ass to modifiers, mainly emmisions related ones.



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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 08:51 AM


What about asking main roads (RTA in NSW?) to come and act as a scruitneer?

Form my way of thinking, if it has been registered and the engine and chassis numbers match, it shuld be allowed to enter. It seems eitehr everything needs to be restricted (eg, must be 1600cc, with std heads,etc etc, formula V style) or it needs to be a very open set of rules. Trying to play the middle ground won't work.

The rules in the othere posts seem to be very open and thats the way it should be.




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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 09:44 AM


Its a pitty theres no Ombudsman to sort this out.

Maybe an outside party can creat the rules, maybe ANDRA

At the end of the day if you don't like somthing what do you do?

Karma will sort it out
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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 05:01 PM


or we could burn the damn thing and just go racing.



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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 05:51 PM


I vote to burn it......



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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 06:29 PM


Well get a lynch mob together and throw it in an incinerator!



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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 06:47 PM


cool, sell some tickets ............



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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 06:49 PM


Damn trophy....when is the meeting on?
Still need an answer on this question!
Is anyone in charge down there?




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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 07:01 PM


Lets make a prize for the next event, owner of the slowest vw gets to publicly destroy the trophy! I can see the arguments now..."But his car wasnt legal because he had a fat chick in it!"



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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 07:14 PM


or how about "there was no water in his windscreen washer bottle, his car's not legal "

Far to many chiefs and not enough indians .....................




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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 07:30 PM


I say burn the witch.........oh hang on I'm thinking of something else.....

http://www.shanmonster.com/witch/torture/pain3.jpg




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posted on September 28th, 2005 at 07:42 PM


Now were talkin! Seriously if you need a trophy to race for you shouldnt be racing!



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posted on September 29th, 2005 at 11:00 AM


There has to be something to aspire to . Think of the younger vw owners . They want to grow up and win the Gene berg trophy . I was seriously building an all out car just to win it , within the rules and without an engine size increase . Just a bit dissapointed and confused that I won it in the wifes car :crazy:
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posted on September 29th, 2005 at 12:46 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by flashman
My position though has not changed. registration = competitor full stop


Exactly. That's what the rules state.

Can't make it any simpler than that.




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posted on September 29th, 2005 at 04:52 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Bug_racer
There has to be something to aspire to . Think of the younger vw owners . They want to grow up and win the Gene berg trophy . I was seriously building an all out car just to win it , within the rules and without an engine size increase . Just a bit dissapointed and confused that I won it in the wifes car :crazy:


well that's what you get when ya wife's car is a porsche GT2 with a VW badge sticky taped on the bonnet! :P




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posted on October 4th, 2005 at 06:25 PM


Gene who?????
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posted on October 4th, 2005 at 07:10 PM


My wifes car a gt2 :P. I wish . Its just 4 cylinders and weighs over 1400kg ! and only 1.8 . Remember that . Factory turbo . I'll be running it again in the not too distant future . I just hope some more air cooled guys show up . The nats was a dissapointment . If this keeps up next year the aircooled cars will be outnumbered 2:1
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posted on October 5th, 2005 at 06:35 PM


Gee I can see this is still going no where.
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posted on October 18th, 2005 at 01:51 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by LOWBUG
Gee I can see this is still going no where.


Just like Berg Enterprises.
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