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 humpty
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| posted on January 31st, 2006 at 11:44 PM |
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TB placement suggestions WTD
Ok guys.....
Input is requested....
I have to assemble a budget EFI intake.... No big buck IDF style TB's here!
Looking for suitable alternatives for a forced feed 2276 TI based engine.
This engine will have CB CNC Wedge Port heads, TCS10 Cam, 82mm Crank, CB H Beams and the usual assortment of quality bits held together by an EMPI
Pentroof Ali Crankcase. it will be boosted by a T03 through a air-water intercooler.
Im open to suggestions, single TB with single plenum and home grown manifolds, dual TB's, quads, modded factory endcastings, modded IDF style
manifolds with a central TB.
Loads of different ideas.... What works, what does'nt, why?
What ever you guys think..... Lets find the right combination....
Chris F did well with his single bored out WBX TB years ago, Keith H did well with dual IDF style jobs... Both worked well, but are worlds appart in
cost and set-up.....
Whats the consensus... What set-up presents the best bang for bucks?
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humpty
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| posted on January 31st, 2006 at 11:49 PM |
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more ideas
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humpty
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| posted on January 31st, 2006 at 11:50 PM |
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One more
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 07:45 AM |
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Hi Humpty
I like Leighs setup, single throttle body on a WBX centre section with pipes running out to normal style IDF or IDA manifolds.
Steve
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humpty
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 12:38 PM |
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Yeah.... I've posted Leigh's set-up on Shoptalk.... I now it works well, but I never did like the look of it.... but thats just me being a pedantic
prick!
To tell you the truth, I was thinking of doing just the same thing and getting over my aesthetic prejudous'!
He's got this baby turbo'd right?
He's got the turbo/intercooler arrangement in front like Kieth did right?
How's he run the pressure tube?
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56astro
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 01:09 PM |
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These are Leigh's injector locations. They appear to sit atop IDF-style mainfolds.
You could easily fab something like what CE use, or Wayne Penrose. For turbo applications it seems to be common practice to place mini-plenums between
the TB and the ports.
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VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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humpty
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 01:28 PM |
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Yeah, Im leaning towards Little Leighs' set-up (R U out there Leigh?), but I would like to know where he ran the pressure tube to the intercooler?
Just doesn't seem like a lot of room around to the left there on his donk!
Those aliuminium injector boss' look interesting.... Did he make those or are they off something else?
Fuel rail is nice and simple and I like the manifold adapters.. Thats what I was leaning towards as I have the CNC match ported manifolds for my heads
ready to go.
Having a central plenum like that also will make it EZ to mount the IAT sensor.
And it all looks kinda factory too.... Ive been looking at a VT V6 Commy TB... It comes with the IAC and TPS built in I think.... And its cheap!
What size TB is that? Whats it off?
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 10:49 PM |
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Hi Humpty
In this picture you can see where the inlet pipes runs.
Steve
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humpty
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 11:06 PM |
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Cheers Steve.... Thats shows me a little more...
Ill have to send the boy an email..... not to mention Keith also....
Be good to catch up with them all....
I always said Id build one of these things one day.....
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 11:44 PM |
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Dude,
Just go to CB's webpage, and have a look on the price for their dual port end castings with injector mounts cast in. From memory they were something
like $70 US (heaps cheaper than gettting someone to weld them in to stock end castings). They are just standard size and shape dual port end castings,
so have plenty of meat for matchporting and what not.
Without a doubt, dead set the easiest way to put FI on a beetle short of the mexibeetle FI setup, which are rarer than rocking horse droppings in Oz.
You then only need to fab the center mount for whatever throttle body you choose to use (remember 3.8L V6 holden throttle bodies work with the Delco
system if u need a bigger one than the Camira came with).
FYI if u didnt already know, the sixth photo down fromt he top shows the 70's beetle fuel injection setup - from memory and the looks of the car,
those manifolds (essentially stock dual port castings with fuel injector bungs, and the center piece which doubles as alternator stand / plenum
chamber) and the turbo FI setup he had ran something like 10's or 11's ?
Good luck with it all.
Cheers,
Doug
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humpty
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| posted on February 2nd, 2006 at 01:50 AM |
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Hey Doug.... I have looked at the CB gear, but.... And this is a BIG but.... The CB end castings, like the factory ones, are very restrictive in the
siamese section. And it is very tight at that point which makes it tough to open them out. To make things worse, the port area at the head is very
small and there is not enough material there to open them out to match my heads, the single intake side of the port is only 31.5mm in dia (at the
largest point) and there is almost no material there to go larger. They would work fine on a smaller engine with small valves and basic head work. But
on an engine such as mine, they could cause a little too much restriction. I guess thats way most ppl with bigger engine tend to go for the IDF style
TB's!!!
Part of the reason Im leaning towards Leighs set-up is becasue I actually already have a lot of those parts! For me to fab the injector boss/adapter
would cost me very little. I have the plenum (thanks to Kurt), the IDF style manifolds (match ported) and I picked up a Falcon TB (IAC Stepper and TPS
in good order, thanks to Freo Wreckers) today for $50 bux. I have the injectors (44's I think) & clips, fuel rails and I think I even have suitable
tubing for the intake runners in stock.
The other part of the reason Im into this method is the attraction to separate intake runners. Following this method should produce smoother intake
flow, better throttle responce, less intake turbulance and a straighter airflow to the valve. I guess Im taking a leaf out over OEM EFI handbook!
Tomorrow I'll be pickin up the temp sensors and the Wideband O2....
But still my bits for the 2276 haven't turned up... Looks like I might give the old 1776 a freshen up and EFI that for now... I wanna get the Rag on
the road!!!
[ Edited on 1-2-2006 by humpty ]
[ Edited on 1-2-2006 by humpty ]
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on February 2nd, 2006 at 09:04 PM |
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Hi
Leigh bought his injector pockets from Injection Perfection I think. He went from quads to the single setup and only missed out on a small amount of
hp at high revs.
Steve
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humpty
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| posted on February 3rd, 2006 at 12:22 AM |
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Cheers Steve..... It is heartening to know that this set-up still produces the good in comparison to the Quads.... Plus it is a whole lot simpler
going this way....
And I have notcied you have been giving your grinder a workout of late!!!
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