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 mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:37 PM |
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Hotdog008 - EJ20T Manx
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:38 PM |
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Hotdog008 - EJ20T Manx
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:39 PM |
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:40 PM |
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:41 PM |
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Ill let him explain these pics!!!!!!
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:41 PM |
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but before it broke...............
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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mattie182
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:42 PM |
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Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
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11CAB
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
If ya got it....Baja it
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| posted on February 8th, 2006 at 06:49 PM |
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There's got to be some serious questions asked about these after-market hubs...... I know I won't be using them...two broken clean off in two months
:cry
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab
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MikeM
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 09:50 AM |
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Illegally modified (welded) or cheap Brazilian type 3 hubs are the problem.
I think mine will be fine. 
[ Edited on 09 February 2006 by MikeM ]
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helterskelter400
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 01:09 PM |
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yep, after world war 3 all that will remain are those hubs. top work.
(custom made or off the shelf?)
:thumb
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11CAB
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 05:27 PM |
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Thats an impressive looking hub Mike, where did you get them from? And how much if you dont mind me asking?
Graham
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab
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mackaymanx
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 10:23 PM |
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How do you centre the disc on the hub. It should be from the centre as with the original Ford setup, or have you machined the inside of the disc to
centre on the outside of the hub.
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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MikeM
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 10:36 PM |
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The Hubs were bought VForce on advice I recieved from COR.
To center the disc on the hub, the hub is machined to fit inside the disc.
[ Edited on 09 February 2006 by MikeM ]
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plough
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 10:37 PM |
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I'm not sure of the origin of the hubs on Andy's Manx. They came with a conversion Kit he bought from COR about 5 years ago. Originally they had 5
stud Ford PCD but have been redrilled for 6 stud Land Cruiser.It would be interesting if they were from the same manufacturer as the one that broke at
Stockton recently.I'm no metallurgist but the place where it broke, near the inner flange, looked pretty pourous to me.Luckily no injuries or major
damage resulted. Andy has promised the replacements will be much stronger. It was a pity it happened on his first major excursion, prior to that
incident it performed flawlessly.
Glenn
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MikeM
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 10:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by plough
They came with a conversion Kit he bought from COR about 5 years ago.
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COR changed ownership about 2 years ago. The previous owner was a bit hit and miss with quality towards the end of his ownership.
COR now stock and sell hubs like mine (see picture above) The hubs HotDog has fitted appear to be sherman hubs that may have been on-sold by COR.
And who redrilled the hubs to be 6 stud? If HotDog did that, then he may have created the weekspot himself. Welded or redrilled hubs are illegal.
[ Edited on 09 February 2006 by MikeM ]
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plough
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| posted on February 9th, 2006 at 11:06 PM |
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My intent was not to cast aspersions on the current owners of COR, that was why I specified the time frame of when the Kit was originally bought. I
was simply stating the facts as known to me and pointing out that this incident has happened twice in recent times. I have seen where the "other "
one broke via a photo on the Buggy adventures site and Andrew's broke in a similar fashion. I am not aware who drilled his hubs for the Land cruiser
PCD. It is a larger PCD than the Ford one and there were no cracks evident (to the naked eye). It did not break anywhere near either PCD but on the
"inner shoulder" for want of a better description. The flange seems to have sheared off from the splined section.
Glenn
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pete wood
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| posted on February 10th, 2006 at 07:47 AM |
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If they were Sherman hubs, I'm sure John Sherman would want to know about the weakness in the casting. You should call him if you find out they are.
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mackaymanx
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| posted on February 11th, 2006 at 12:24 PM |
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There's a better photo of the damage here
http://buggyadventures.com.au/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=367&hi...
Could this have come about from too small a radius being left after machining, it seems to me that the crack may have originated there on the hub.
I'm a Machinist by trade and have seen shafts fail because of that very same problem.
[ Edited on 11-2-2006 by mackaymanx ]
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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Brad
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| posted on February 11th, 2006 at 10:42 PM |
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mmmm
| Quote: | Originally
posted by plough
They came with a conversion Kit he bought from COR about 5 years ago. Originally they had 5 stud Ford PCD but have been redrilled for 6 stud Land
Cruiser.
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If the hubs came from Custom Offroad and have failed as result of a manufacture he should send them back for an exchange set.
If the hubs have been drilled, welded or machined and this has caused them to fail then that is not the fault hubs.
I am very keen to see the hubs in the flesh so if someone can pass on his phone number I would like to give him a call.
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hotdog008
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| posted on February 12th, 2006 at 01:16 PM |
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g`day everyone
i `m pretty sure it`s not my fault from drilling out the hubs to 6 stud
it`s more the centre of the hub that tore out
i would not excpect an exchange as i have modified the hubs that i bought
i have standard 4 stud hubs and they look stronger(more webbing on the inside and thicker guts section)
i will mod these to make stronger and i`m confident of a fix
luckily for me my brother is a machinest too
a pretty easy fix and i`m still having fun
i`m always up for a buggy chat
mob. 0409612582 during day mon- fri
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Baja Wes
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| posted on February 13th, 2006 at 08:48 AM |
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I checked out the pic at buggyadventures.
The lumpy surface is called brittle fracture. It has nothing to do with porosity of the casting. All it means is something have the hub a rather
larger hit and it broke clean off. The is virtually no signs of beachmarking (where a fatigue crack grows in a slow ductile manner, before it finally
fails in one single brittle break). When that means is there probably wasn't much of a crack to find before it went anyway.
The photo isn't the best, but they may be some beachmarks on the outboard edge near the axle nut. For it to do this you either would have needed to
slide into something sideways, or be runng really negative offset rims.
Better pics would help.
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plough
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| posted on February 13th, 2006 at 09:25 PM |
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Wes,
The photo you referred to is not from Andy's Manx, I think it is of the Buggy which broke at Stockton recently. The breaks, however, are remarkably
similar. Andy did slide into a small earth embankment (about a metre high). The wheel assembly came off immediately after the impact. There were
gourge marks on the road which continued till the vehicle stopped.
Glenn
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Baja Wes
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| posted on February 14th, 2006 at 08:10 AM |
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I realised it was the stockton incident due to the sand in the photo.
My point is someone should be looking a little closer at these failures for the safety of everyone else running similar set-ups.
These incidents are part of the reason why the mod rules don't allow a change in track or big changing in tyre diameter, because both mods result in
a significantly bigger load on the parts and more chance of failure.
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hotdog008
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| posted on February 14th, 2006 at 05:49 PM |
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my guess is power plays a big part to
a vw motor mightn`t have the power to screw the centre out of the hub when we add heavy 4wd tryes and rims
we put ej motors and v6 motors in then add big wheels with lots of grip and wieght and something gives(i thought it would be the g-box)
we just have to make sure we beef up each link in the chain
i also still think sum aftermarket hubs arn`t as strong as standard .someone somewhere said standard ones have proven themselfs in off road racing
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plough
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| posted on February 14th, 2006 at 09:47 PM |
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Following on from what Wes has said the next obvious step is for "someone " to take "ownership" of trying to resolve the problem. Given that the
two failures are similar it would be prudent if the original manufacturer or each of these hubs could be identiied. It may be that they both came from
the same manufacturer.
Anyone with the appropriate resources willing to undertake this task?
Glenn
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VDUBXTC
A.k.a.: Jace
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| posted on February 15th, 2006 at 01:35 AM |
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Andrew (Rat Bug) had driven around on the beach for around 40 mins to an hr on relativly flat surface when his just snapped.
looks like the 2 that have snapped of recent have both been running the subi engines.
the extra weight and power have anything to do with it?
Hey Rat Bug. Have you still got the old hub?
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Baja Wes
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| posted on February 15th, 2006 at 08:42 AM |
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if the owners of the broken parts want to send them down to custom offroad, then Brad and I can have a good close look and I can give my professional
opinion of what looks like happened.
I doubt the power had any real effect, the stresses due to the torsion in the hub (from power) are very low. Power will break a gearbox or snap and
axle long before it tried to shear a hub off.
The weight could have some effect, as that's the main load. With a neutral offset rim all the weight of the vehicle goes through the web of the hub.
With big negative or positive offset rims, the weight is to the side of the web, which cause bending stresses in the hub. Hitting anthing sideways
will cause even bigger bending stresses and would be the highest load.
However the suby motors aren't that heavy. The weight on the hubs in a suby powered buggy will still be less than a stock engined baja I'd think. I
just think most people running these hubs in a rear disc brake set-up are doing so because they have gone to a suby conversion.
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ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
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| posted on February 17th, 2006 at 08:29 PM |
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Hey guys, Yeah mine was the one that broke at stockton.
Did a few jumps over dunes, all was good, then went for a leisurely cruise a few km's down the beach and it broke on the way back, on a dead flat
stretch going 40km/h, the least place you'd expect it to finally fail.
I'm running 6.5" wide rims, offset can't quite remember but similar to vw.
I got the old hub somewhere, i'll dig it out and take some closeup pics if you want.
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subibaja
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| posted on February 17th, 2006 at 11:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by plough
Following on from what Wes has said the next obvious step is for "someone " to take "ownership" of trying to resolve the problem. Given that the
two failures are similar it would be prudent if the original manufacturer or each of these hubs could be identiied. It may be that they both came from
the same manufacturer.
Anyone with the appropriate resources willing to undertake this task?
Glenn
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as i see it the manurfacturer can not be held to blame as it is not being used in the way it was intended.
in a standard irs beetle , on the road , with 165r15 tyres on it and a 1600 twin port up its bum
terry
anyone who says it's bad to put subaru motors in vw's.....
hasnt got a clue about smoooooooooth
terry
brisbane
0403252522
you know who i am
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VDUBXTC
A.k.a.: Jace
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| posted on February 18th, 2006 at 03:13 AM |
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Na terry is right.
You can't blame the makers of the product because they are as terry says, not made for this type of use.
But if the problem is made know to the people who produce these hubs, then they may be able to put a warning on them saying not suitable for offroad
use.
this would stop or reduce any further accidents from happening.
and people wasting their $$$$$
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