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Author: Subject:  Unleaded petrol - can you use it? but cannot buy it?
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posted on March 15th, 2006 at 07:44 PM
Unleaded petrol - can you use it? but cannot buy it?


Hello everyone, a good suggestion was made by Bizarre to post some links that address the issue of unleaded fuel as it is asked so frequently. So here are a few that will help get the research started - if those links don't provide the necessary information, then ask away for advice.

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=48881#pid455653 

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=45673&page=1#pid429652 

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=44441&page=1#pid414133 

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=42331&page=1#pid392804 

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=41417&page=1#pid381606 

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=40811&page=1#pid374886 




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posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 10:52 AM



Basically unleaded will be fine, but is a lower octane rating then leaded so it may knock. If it does then you need to use premium unleaded.

A more informative read than the above threads can be found here;
http://www.vw-resource.com/leaded.html




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posted on August 23rd, 2006 at 11:24 AM



Good idea Das



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posted on June 4th, 2008 at 12:49 AM



So do any of you use unleaded in your dubs at all?
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posted on June 4th, 2008 at 07:29 AM



yep use it all the time in my 1916 with injection



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posted on June 4th, 2008 at 07:35 AM



Every one does,
you can't buy leaded fuel
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posted on June 4th, 2008 at 10:44 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by Natwest
So do any of you use unleaded in your dubs at all?


well, there's nothing else these days..!

I usually use PULP in mine - standard and hottie engines




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posted on June 4th, 2008 at 10:52 AM



I use 95 ULP as 91 is recommended for vw engines

and normal ULP can be from 87-91 approx
from memory

I have used normal unleaded at times without any problems
- caltex or shell

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posted on August 17th, 2008 at 08:18 PM



PULP will be fine for most apps but I have found 98 is better in my cars... I do a lot of commuting and long distance driving and it does get hot here....

And all my engines are modified....




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posted on October 11th, 2008 at 09:55 PM



98 is good for the older cars, and is closest to the original octane rating of leaded fuel.

Shell Mobil or BP personally. Not a fan of Caltex
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posted on October 30th, 2008 at 11:10 PM



Mine runs on an oily rag:lol::lol::lol:
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posted on March 14th, 2009 at 10:52 PM



Iv'e got a friend who used unleaded in her engine and it blew the engine! after she put a new engine in she was told to only put premium unleaded in the car otherwise unleaded petrol will burn the engine to bits!



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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 06:16 PM



So PULP is still ok to use even if you don't have your engine upgraded to run unleaded? You don't need to add lead replacement?

I was told by a trusted VW mechanic that these things are good to have... CLICK HERE

Does anyone on here have one of these installed. If so then what's it like? If not then why not?
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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 06:28 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by beetleboy88
Iv'e got a friend who used unleaded in her engine and it blew the engine! after she put a new engine in she was told to only put premium unleaded in the car otherwise unleaded petrol will burn the engine to bits!


Yes, because she didnt add valvesaver/lead additive.. and burnt the valves resulting in bad things happening. Thats what you get for not thinking about when a car was made and taking proper care of it.
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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 06:40 PM



I use BP unleaded 95 with the Flashlube Valve Saver


http://www.flashlube.com/en/valvesaverfluid/index.html

I think the BP Ultimate unleaded 98 might cause air cooled cars to run hotter due to the higher octane rating,




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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 07:30 PM



I am not sure whether a few stations or distributors are cheating and putting the ethanol blend in the unleaded tank,but on a couple of occasions recently I have come across VW's which have suddenly swollen the fuel hoses and fuel pump started leaking.i personally prefer Shell 95 or 98 and Flashlube. The higher octane rating theoretically should not cause overheating,in previous years we always used super and occasionally tossed a gallon of Methyl Benzine for a bit more go with no detrimental effects.
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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 07:34 PM



i run BP 98 with flash lube.. works sweet as



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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 07:51 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by deshI think the BP Ultimate unleaded 98 might cause air cooled cars to run hotter due to the higher octane rating,



Errrmmm.... No.

Put the highest octane that you can get in... I have only run PULP and now 98 in my VW's since it first came on the market....

A little known fact...

All VW head built since the mid 70's have been built at the factory using quality valves, hardened seats and silicone bronze guides perfect for the use of unleaded fuels... This came about because the US made the move to replace Leaded fuels around this time... California was the first state to do so.... Almost over night Leaded fuel was band from sale in So-Cal and Nor-Cal followed not long after. Naturally the aftermarket at the time was a little slow on the uptake, but they paid the price for their tardiness!

In Australia the factory followed suit as the heads and relevant components came from Germany... Any head rebuilt outside of the factory could have the incorrect valves, seats and guides installed, but it is unlikely given that fact that the ability, tooling and components to rebuild heads were developed by Joe Vittone at European Motor Products Inc in the late 50's... And upgraded in the 70's to suit the modern fuels being developed at the time.




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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 07:54 PM



Thanks humpty for the clarification re 98 octane fuel, that's the great thing about these forums, you always learn something new everyday.



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posted on March 30th, 2009 at 08:24 PM



Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...
But be warned... Not all 98RON fuel is the same.... I'm testing E10 at the moment and the results look pretty good... Cooler running, better mileage, cleaner emissions.... But the real test will be when I pull the heads and observe the condition of the topend....




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posted on August 28th, 2009 at 11:15 PM



Guys take a look at Redline oils lead substitute at redlineoil.com.au
can get it from Coventrys and Auto1
works a treat as does the fuel system cleaner
used it on my buggy for years
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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 12:50 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by humpty
Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...



no no!
As octane gets greater, the Hotter in fact it actually runs.

the burn is slower, and more 'heat' energy is released. if the octane is high enough, the burning fuel would actually still be in the burning process whilst passing through the exhaust valve and manifold, resulting in burnt valves and a dramatic increase in engine bay temperature.

{NOTE: this is not a back fire as the 'ignition' for this burning mixture took place in the combustion chamber, however is finishing up in the exhaust manifold)

(practically the complete opposite of detonation/pinging from 'too low' octane which obviously you don't want from too low octane otherwise it ain't half obvious that internal pressures are going to go off the charts).

I speak from a VERY nasty experience after running a combo of 98 octane and 4 point nulon racing octane booster. (yes stupid but it was an experience to get the most hp by advancing the ignition as much as possible with the higher octane to increase the ability to advance the timing without any pinging). mind you that was ONE VERY nasty cruise. overheating is never fun.

People have established that unleaded fuel is vw friendly. if it pings at 91 octane, check that timing is not too advanced and properly timed. if it is, then go 95 octane. but there is no need to jump to 98 if 95 isn't pinging. It will run hotter with no hp benefits, unless you advance the ignition timing by feel to keep the 'mixture burn' in that combustion chamber.

and you would probably squeeze a couple more hp by advancing so as the higher octane contains the greater energy. I doubt 98 would cause any damage though, but let it be out there that it will definitely not run cooler with a higher octane.

It may or may not pose any damaging threats, but if 95 works, why risk unless certain?




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info.gif posted on August 29th, 2009 at 01:33 AM



Yes,
I had a local with a new harley looking japanese bike..

He said the chromed exhausts went blue when he used PULP..

actually, the past two weeks i've been running My beetle with normal ULP for the first time...

engine seems to be going better??
smoother????

I've still got My 009 distributor at 32 degrees BTDC..

always starts first go every time...

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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 09:56 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by bajachris88
Quote:
Originally posted by humpty
Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...



no no!
As octane gets greater, the Hotter in fact it actually runs.

the burn is slower, and more 'heat' energy is released. if the octane is high enough, the burning fuel would actually still be in the burning process whilst passing through the exhaust valve and manifold, resulting in burnt valves and a dramatic increase in engine bay temperature.

{NOTE: this is not a back fire as the 'ignition' for this burning mixture took place in the combustion chamber, however is finishing up in the exhaust manifold)

(practically the complete opposite of detonation/pinging from 'too low' octane which obviously you don't want from too low octane otherwise it ain't half obvious that internal pressures are going to go off the charts).

I speak from a VERY nasty experience after running a combo of 98 octane and 4 point nulon racing octane booster. (yes stupid but it was an experience to get the most hp by advancing the ignition as much as possible with the higher octane to increase the ability to advance the timing without any pinging). mind you that was ONE VERY nasty cruise. overheating is never fun.

People have established that unleaded fuel is vw friendly. if it pings at 91 octane, check that timing is not too advanced and properly timed. if it is, then go 95 octane. but there is no need to jump to 98 if 95 isn't pinging. It will run hotter with no hp benefits, unless you advance the ignition timing by feel to keep the 'mixture burn' in that combustion chamber.

and you would probably squeeze a couple more hp by advancing so as the higher octane contains the greater energy. I doubt 98 would cause any damage though, but let it be out there that it will definitely not run cooler with a higher octane.

It may or may not pose any damaging threats, but if 95 works, why risk unless certain?


what a load of rubbish.

your engine ran hot cause you advanced it, not due to the 98 octane.

And Lee, the max advance for the 009 should be set at 29.5 Deg not 32 Deg.




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 10:31 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by colonel mustard
Quote:
Originally posted by beetleboy88
Iv'e got a friend who used unleaded in her engine and it blew the engine! after she put a new engine in she was told to only put premium unleaded in the car otherwise unleaded petrol will burn the engine to bits!


Yes, because she didnt add valvesaver/lead additive.. and burnt the valves resulting in bad things happening. Thats what you get for not thinking about when a car was made and taking proper care of it.


more rubbish! I have never added valve saver you don't need to waste your money
(maybe it comes in a shiny bottle)




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 10:42 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by Craig Torrens


what a load of rubbish.

your engine ran hot cause you advanced it, not due to the 98 octane.

And Lee, the max advance for the 009 should be set at 29.5 Deg not 32 Deg.


I believe it and still stand by it, google it and see.
how scientifically would it run cooler?
if i have 2 kg of tnt blowing up in my engine (more energy) than 1 kg, it would run cooler?

high octane cars don't run cooler.




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 12:05 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by bajachris88
Quote:
Originally posted by Craig Torrens


what a load of rubbish.

your engine ran hot cause you advanced it, not due to the 98 octane.

And Lee, the max advance for the 009 should be set at 29.5 Deg not 32 Deg.


I believe it and still stand by it, google it and see.
how scientifically would it run cooler?
if i have 2 kg of tnt blowing up in my engine (more energy) than 1 kg, it would run cooler?

high octane cars don't run cooler.


You believe what Wiki and Google say?.... Don't you know that there are loads of nutbags on the www saying what ever they feel is correct without any knowledge at all?.... Kinda like what's happening here!!! :lol: But the concept is pretty simple really.... Higher Octane Fuel produces a cleaner more efficient burn than lower octane.... It's not hotter, it's more efficient... Get it?...

So logic would suggest that if the burn is poorer and less efficient, the gasses are slower moving and are potentially denser than a high octane burn. If this is the case, then it stands to reason that the heat generated will stay in the chamber longer, producing the pinging phenomenon, compounding the problem further by burning valves, pounding seats and general misbehavior...




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 12:31 PM



well it was my personal experience.

I agree it runs more efficient and burns slower, even acts richer, not questioning that, but if u have it burn that slow that it is still burning while passing through the exhaust valve and the manifold, things are gonna get hot as the manifold gets hot and heats up the air more than usual, as what happened with the 102 octane.

engine bay temperature increases, therefore intake air temperature increases, rada rada. then the whole general temperature increases, let alone the worry of burnt valves

get me jist?




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 12:58 PM



take a look at this
http://www.geocities.com/vwresource/octane.html 

it might help.

from my experiance with air cooled engines tuning is what controls temp and you must tune to suit the fuel you using.




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 01:47 PM



You don't need additive in >68 beetles. Countries like America had unleaded fuel long before Aus got it. So VW changed it to suit.



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27.0.00120497SELECT name, template FROM ubb_templates WHERE name IN ('functions_bbcode', 'functions_bbcodeinsert', 'functions_smilieinsert_smilie', 'functions_smilieinsert', 'viewtopic_reply', 'viewtopic_quickreply', 'viewtopic', 'viewtopic_invalid', 'viewtopic_modoptions', 'viewtopic_newpoll', 'viewtopic_newtopic', 'viewtopic_poll_options_view', 'viewtopic_poll_options', 'viewtopic_poll_submitbutton', 'viewtopic_poll', 'viewtopic_post', 'viewtopic_post_email', 'viewtopic_post_site', 'viewtopic_post_icq', 'viewtopic_post_aim', 'viewtopic_post_msn', 'viewtopic_post_yahoo', 'viewtopic_post_search', 'viewtopic_post_profile', 'viewtopic_post_pm', 'viewtopic_post_ip', 'viewtopic_post_repquote', 'viewtopic_post_report', 'viewtopic_post_edit', 'viewtopic_post_delete', 'viewtopic_post_attachmentimage', 'viewtopic_post_attachment', 'viewtopic_post_attach_noborder', 'viewtopic_post_attimg_noborder', 'viewtopic_post_sig', 'viewtopic_post_nosig', 'viewtopic_printable', 'viewtopic_printable_row', 'viewtopic_multipage', 'viewtopic_post_attachment_none', 'viewforum_rules', 'viewtopic_post_blog', 'viewtopic_post_rpg', 'viewforum_mpn_info', 'viewtopic_next_prev_links', 'viewtopic_captcha', 'css', 'error', 'footer', 'footer_querynum', 'footer_load', 'footer_phpsql', 'footer_totaltime', 'header', 'message', 'meta_tags', 'shadow', 'shadow2')
28.0.00032997SELECT t.tid, t.fid, t.subject, t.views, t.replies, t.closed, t.topped, l.uid as lp_uid, l.username as lp_user, l.dateline as lp_dateline, l.pid as lp_pid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid WHERE t.tid = '49875'
29.0.00021505SELECT * FROM ubb_forums WHERE fid='57' AND status='on'
30.0.00015903SELECT code, url FROM ubb_smilies WHERE type = 'smiley'
31.0.00009012SELECT find, replace1 FROM ubb_words
32.0.00018811SELECT id, title, posts, stars, allowavatars, avatarrank FROM ubb_ranks
33.0.00027204UPDATE ubb_threads SET views = views+1 WHERE tid = '49875' LIMIT 1
34.0.00057888SELECT COUNT(pid) FROM ubb_posts WHERE tid = '49875'
35.0.01194310SELECT t.tid as t_tid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_threads o ON o.tid = 49875 LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts x ON x.tid = o.tid WHERE l.dateline < x.dateline AND t.fid = '57' ORDER BY l.dateline DESC LIMIT 1
36.0.01133084SELECT t.tid as t_tid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_threads o ON o.tid = 49875 LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts x ON x.tid = o.tid WHERE l.dateline > x.dateline AND t.fid = '57' ORDER BY l.dateline ASC LIMIT 1
37.0.00030112SELECT vote_id FROM ubb_vote_desc WHERE topic_id = '49875'
38.0.00047207SELECT pid FROM ubb_posts WHERE tid = '49875' ORDER BY pid LIMIT 0, 30
39.0.00036597SELECT * FROM ubb_attachments WHERE pid IN('464460', '525748', '525754', '649988', '650014', '650016', '650051', '650053', '664438', '674322', '677509', '700864', '703870', '703874', '703878', '703901', '703902', '703908', '703910', '703934', '732226', '732237', '732241', '732280', '732287', '732289', '732303', '732306', '732310', '732315')
40.0.00161791SELECT p.*, m.*,w.time FROM ubb_posts p LEFT JOIN ubb_members m ON m.username = p.author LEFT JOIN ubb_whosonline w ON p.author = w.username WHERE p.fid = '57' AND p.tid = '49875' ORDER BY p.pid ASC LIMIT 0, 30