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Author: Subject:  Unleaded petrol - can you use it? but cannot buy it?
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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 03:40 PM



Chris, how far advanced did you have your timing?

it had nothing to do with the fuel and everything to do with your advance.

ask drag racers why they dont run the same advance on their street cars that they do on their drag cars........cos they will go boom.

I run 98BP Ultimate in my baja. its the only fuel that i trust. Shell 98 runs like crap in my engine and ive been burnt by bad fuel from independents too many times.

i rarely run a valve lubricant. sometimes i do just for kicks. maybe every 8 or so tanks i put a little bottle of valve saver in.

i run my 009 statically timed to 7.5BTDC and i have no issues.




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posted on August 29th, 2009 at 04:15 PM



yep and a 009 has a 22 deg advance curve.......so 7.5 static plus 22 will give you 29.5deg max advance :tu:

If you think high octane fuels run hotter than low octane fuel in the same motor you're a goose:D




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posted on November 16th, 2009 at 09:11 AM



I only run 98 octane in my car as I know that they don't add additives like ethanol to it.
Ethanol will introduce too much water to the vehicles fuel system and engine causing problems with corrosion etc.
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posted on December 14th, 2009 at 04:12 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Anthiron

i run my 009 statically timed to 7.5BTDC and i have no issues.


009s need to be timed at maximum revs to get the correct timing... 30-32 degrees maximum revs...

I have been using SHELL 95 & 98 in My 1600 single port engine for the past few years [engine overhauled low kms]
and recently I filled up with normal ULP and My beetle has been going the best it ever has gone... I had installed new spark plugs and leads, dizzy cap and points.. tappets done.

I do have a new SVDA with Pertronix to fit soon..
[from air cooled.net in USA]

the timing has NOT been adjusted... apart from adjusting the points.. always checked with a timing light...

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posted on December 14th, 2009 at 04:18 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Gixer41960
I only run 98 octane in my car as I know that they don't add additives like ethanol to it.
Ethanol will introduce too much water to the vehicles fuel system and engine causing problems with corrosion etc.


Ethanol is ONLY in Petrol that IS labelled ETHANOL... E10 etc..

Not in any others... it cannot be added to ULP without being labelled...

I ran a magna for years with BOGAS petrol with Ethanol...
without any problems...

although I wouldn't use E10 in My beetle... or any of My cars now,,, not because of the rust?? issue...

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posted on December 22nd, 2009 at 07:11 PM



Water is attracted to ethanol, newer cars that run platic and rubber throughout everything don't have as much a problem but older cars that have metal fuel tanks and fuel lines etc will find problems with the extra water that is running through the car. I've heard that the eastern states plan to have ethanol mixed fuel only at the pumps in the near future and that includes higher mixes of e20 and up. The following quote is from - FCAI SUBMISSION TO THE VICTORIAN INQUIRY INTO MANDATING THE USE OF ETHANOL AND BIOFUELS IN VICTORIA
AUGUST 2007
"ETHANOL/PETROL BLENDS
EXISTING VEHICLE FLEET
MATERIAL COMPATIBILITY ISSUES
The use of E10 blended petrol is widely accepted in many modern makes of car. However, ethanol can cause early deterioration of components in fuel systems such as fuel tanks, fuel lines/hoses, injector seals, delivery pipes, fuel pump and regulators, particularly in older vehicles.
Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may also experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.
Some manufacturers advise not to use E10 with any model equipped with a carburettor because of material incompatibility.
Also this was taken from our RAA web site on E10 fuel.

Will Ethanol damage my vehicle or affect its performance?

Most metal components in fuel systems will corrode or rust in the presence of water. Ethanol increases petrol's ability to absorb water without separating and Ethanol blended petrol can therefore ‘hold’ more water and carry this through the engine. The greater the concentration of ethanol the greater the ability to ‘hold’ water.
Several studies have examined the effect of E10 on fuel tanks and fuel system components and have concluded that ethanol up to 10% does not increase corrosion in normal, everyday operation.
Ethanol blends may have a deteriorating effect on the rubber components of an engine. Other additives, such as benzene may also have an effect.
In older models, deposits in fuel tanks and fuel lines are occasionally loosened by E10, and the fuel filter may become plugged. This is remedied by a fuel filter change.
If very Ethanol rich fuel is used this may cause an engine to stall.
Laboratory tests have shown that blends of 20% pure Ethanol in petrol can damage some conventional automotive paint.
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posted on January 31st, 2010 at 08:14 PM



I have glanced over the previous posts to ask this, so please forgive me if it has been answered. Do I need to use a lead additive in a 66 beetle? I dont even know if it is still available. The last time I owned a leaded fueled car the price of fuel was 55c/l . Do I need to "retune" my engine to run better on unleaded( be it ULP PULP or E10) and if so what needs to be done?
Cheers Todd :D
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posted on February 22nd, 2010 at 01:31 PM



You should be able to use straight unleaded fine, but adding a lubricant isn't a bad idea. You shouldn't need to re-tune.
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posted on March 2nd, 2010 at 10:39 AM



with regards to the comments about ethanol on older cars, I recall reading something somewhere (would have been on the internet so it must be true) that ethanol has different fluid properties to normal petrol and tends to flow though weak points that petrol wont flow through (leak).

So, and apart from the corrosion problems caused by the water holding properties outlined above:

Ethanol doesnt so much cause failures in older fuel systems, it 'finds weak points'....

Theres a difference between chemically destroying components, or leaking past them.

Note: I'm not bothered if this is debunked, but its the best I can recall.
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posted on March 16th, 2010 at 08:23 PM



Let me get this straight I can use Premium unleaded in my 1969 VW (it has a 1600 twin port).

I was going to add a Fuelstar inline catalyst but after reading this thread premium unleaded will be just fine???




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posted on January 1st, 2011 at 11:06 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by bajachris88
Quote:
Originally posted by humpty
Higher Octane = Cooler running.... And I have never run additives either...



no no!
As octane gets greater, the Hotter in fact it actually runs.

the burn is slower, and more 'heat' energy is released. if the octane is high enough, the burning fuel would actually still be in the burning process whilst passing through the exhaust valve and manifold, resulting in burnt valves and a dramatic increase in engine bay temperature.

{NOTE: this is not a back fire as the 'ignition' for this burning mixture took place in the combustion chamber, however is finishing up in the exhaust manifold)

(practically the complete opposite of detonation/pinging from 'too low' octane which obviously you don't want from too low octane otherwise it ain't half obvious that internal pressures are going to go off the charts).

I speak from a VERY nasty experience after running a combo of 98 octane and 4 point nulon racing octane booster. (yes stupid but it was an experience to get the most hp by advancing the ignition as much as possible with the higher octane to increase the ability to advance the timing without any pinging). mind you that was ONE VERY nasty cruise. overheating is never fun.

People have established that unleaded fuel is vw friendly. if it pings at 91 octane, check that timing is not too advanced and properly timed. if it is, then go 95 octane. but there is no need to jump to 98 if 95 isn't pinging. It will run hotter with no hp benefits, unless you advance the ignition timing by feel to keep the 'mixture burn' in that combustion chamber.

and you would probably squeeze a couple more hp by advancing so as the higher octane contains the greater energy. I doubt 98 would cause any damage though, but let it be out there that it will definitely not run cooler with a higher octane.

It may or may not pose any damaging threats, but if 95 works, why risk unless certain?
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posted on February 12th, 2011 at 04:20 PM



I've always run additive thinking that I needed to, but it seems I may not need to. My only concern is that I have no idea when the heads on the engine were made, due to the amount of modification and time that VWs can have on them.



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posted on February 12th, 2011 at 04:38 PM



Been running standard 91 unleaded in our stock 1971 Beetle for 5 years. No additives, and it has been fine, goes quite well.



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posted on February 12th, 2011 at 04:55 PM



Problem is hard to find 91 that doesn't have ethanol these days so i usually use 95 and use an additive



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posted on February 12th, 2011 at 09:20 PM



It amazes me that this thread keep coming back.... If you have an engine that was either built or rebuilt since 1970, you will have no problem running unleaded fuel.... All VW engines should be running hardened seats and silicone bronze valve guides...
Run the best fuel you can afford.... I use only 98 in my cars (the octane argument aside).... And even then only Caltex.... BP is shit IMHO..... I have never had any problems since I made the change way back in 93...




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yes.gif posted on February 12th, 2011 at 10:45 PM
YOU CANNOT BUY LEADED FUEL ANY MORE


YES

This thread keeps popping up....

ALL Petrol sold in Service Stations across Australia is UNLEADED..

The New Problem is ETHANOL.....

I lose about 40% of power using 91 with ethanol...

You can still find NON Ethanol 91 petrol at older service stations

ALL New Servos in NSW Only have 91 BIO with Ethanol...

NON Ethanol 91 was supposed to be phased out this year in NSW... but due to the floods... and crop failures..
the date has been put back another year...

I use 98 plus valve saver... SHELL usually...

LEE

so... You do Have to Use Unleaded Petrol in Your Beetle...

ETHANOL --- its up to You....

LEE

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posted on February 13th, 2011 at 12:42 AM



Can't get ethanol-unleaded or bio-ethanol blends here at all.... This is the wild west after all!!!!!.... Though I am looking forward to E85 arriving.... I hear it works wonders with turbo charged engines!!! :tu::tu::tu:



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posted on February 13th, 2011 at 08:39 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by humpty
It amazes me that this thread keep coming back.... If you have an engine that was either built or rebuilt since 1970, you will have no problem running unleaded fuel.... All VW engines should be running hardened seats and silicone bronze valve guides...
Run the best fuel you can afford.... I use only 98 in my cars (the octane argument aside).... And even then only Caltex.... BP is shit IMHO..... I have never had any problems since I made the change way back in 93...

strange cause i only use bp or shell in the bug dont like caltex at all.




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posted on February 13th, 2011 at 08:54 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by humpty
It amazes me that this thread keep coming back.... If you have an engine that was either built or rebuilt since 1970, you will have no problem running unleaded fuel.... All VW engines should be running hardened seats and silicone bronze valve guides...
Run the best fuel you can afford.... I use only 98 in my cars (the octane argument aside).... And even then only Caltex.... BP is shit IMHO..... I have never had any problems since I made the change way back in 93...


So since i have a 1600 TP in my 69 (yes not the original motor) I do not need to use an additive?




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posted on February 13th, 2011 at 08:59 AM



no



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posted on February 23rd, 2011 at 06:23 PM



Can the moderators add this to the top of the front page of this site - you do not need to use an additive or lead in any stock VW!

Valve seat recession was an issue with cast iron heads - no exported or otherwise non-German VW ever used cast iron seats. Chrome stemmed exhaust valves should exist in any engine still alive, and any dodgy jobs will need a rebuild anyway - cast iron seats fall out.

Stock engines built for Australia will work on the fuel they were designed for, which is now standard unleaded. If, you have raised compression, witnessed pinging or other signs of detonation, you should consider higher octane fuels. If your engine is overheating, find the problem and fix it - it is unlikely to be the fuel.

Lead should only be required for strip engines running titanium or some lightweight stainless valves, or aircraft, and is not legal in most of Australia (some outback areas excepted, mostly in WA and NT.)

Calorific value and burn rate are not octane-specific, but are designed in to a degree by manufacturers. Economic factors tend to make these end up fairly consistent, outside of the ethanol factor.

Any stock engine should run just OK with ethanol blends as they tend to be set uo rich, but they should be avoided in vehicles which are not regularly used due to the abovementioned hydrophilic properties.

If your rubber fuel hose is 40 years old, replace it! Rust is a problem in some parts of Australia and not in others. If you are doing a resto, I'd have a look at PPC or similar treatments. Stainless line is a good investment, too.
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posted on March 9th, 2011 at 11:36 AM



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating 
GO HERE READ AND LEARN
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info.gif posted on March 9th, 2011 at 05:17 PM
UNLEADED FUEL - ETHANOL FUEL ...


[size=5]No..
fuel with lead has been banned for years now
so, You cannot buy it from any service stations...

VW engines do not need an additive in the fuel to lubricate the valve stems etc...

BUT.... Many people who own VWs DO use Valvesaver or A similar additive to the fuel... it cannot hurt the engine and may help to lubricate the valve stems...

I have only just started to Use Valve saver in My fuel....

I ONLY Use fuel without Ethanol in My beetle as I lose about 40% of My engine Power by using it....

There are still some small independent BP stations selling Unleaded 91 without Ethanol....

with larger fuel stations I use 98 Unleaded.... which is higher octane and has cleaning additives in it...
I also have used 95 unleaded also..

because of crop failures... Unleaded fuel without Ethanol will be produced for another year.....

LEE


[/size]

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posted on March 23rd, 2011 at 09:16 AM



OMG i needed my sunnies on looking at the above
why are people so unkind..?

still been running BP 98 with flash lube for over umpteen years now and no probs here

bring back leaded fuel and this will all go away..
leaded paint on the weatherboards still goes on and on and on and when we were kids its tasted good too for an arvo snack as we couldn't afford food :crazy: :lol:




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posted on December 7th, 2011 at 12:47 PM



What about Opal?

Opal Fuel




I read it on samba, so it must be correct.

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posted on December 7th, 2011 at 01:32 PM



I haven't heard about OPAL fuel

Is unleaded fuel with Ethanol now used in Western Australia??

I know ethanol was illegal years ago... in Western Australia..

when BOGAS fuel in NSW used ethanol in their petrol..


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posted on December 7th, 2012 at 04:27 PM



No ethanol used in fuel here, too far from the sugar cane! but that might change now the chinese own stage 2 of the Ord
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posted on December 8th, 2012 at 10:30 AM



Found a woolworths caltex servo selling NON ethanol unleaded
fuel yesterday about 5 cents a litre more than ethanol fuel..

LEE




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posted on December 8th, 2012 at 01:49 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by AA003
What about Opal?

Opal Fuel

We only have Opal and BP 95 premium here. The premium is $2.05 L at the mo and Opal (which is heavily subsidised by the gov) is about $1.90L. I only ran the premium but at nearly $70 a tank I thought I would try the Opal. After 6 tanks and no valve saver it is still running sweet if anything it seems a bit smoother
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22.0.00023198SELECT * FROM ubb_themes WHERE themeid = '1'
23.0.00011706SELECT * FROM ubb_pluglinks ORDER BY displayorder ASC
24.0.00013614SELECT id FROM ubb_banned WHERE ((ip1 = '3' OR ip1 = '-1') AND (ip2 = '235' OR ip2 = '-1') AND (ip3 = '41' OR ip3 = '-1') AND (ip4 = '241' OR ip4 = '-1')) AND NOT (ip1 = '-1' AND ip2 = '-1' AND ip3 = '-1' AND ip4 = '-1')
25.0.00060606SELECT fid, type, name, fup, status, private, userlist, password FROM ubb_forums WHERE private != '5' AND private != '3' AND private != '2' AND userlist = '' AND password = '' AND status = 'on' ORDER BY displayorder
26.0.00014496SELECT themeid, name FROM ubb_themes
27.0.00103307SELECT name, template FROM ubb_templates WHERE name IN ('functions_bbcode', 'functions_bbcodeinsert', 'functions_smilieinsert_smilie', 'functions_smilieinsert', 'viewtopic_reply', 'viewtopic_quickreply', 'viewtopic', 'viewtopic_invalid', 'viewtopic_modoptions', 'viewtopic_newpoll', 'viewtopic_newtopic', 'viewtopic_poll_options_view', 'viewtopic_poll_options', 'viewtopic_poll_submitbutton', 'viewtopic_poll', 'viewtopic_post', 'viewtopic_post_email', 'viewtopic_post_site', 'viewtopic_post_icq', 'viewtopic_post_aim', 'viewtopic_post_msn', 'viewtopic_post_yahoo', 'viewtopic_post_search', 'viewtopic_post_profile', 'viewtopic_post_pm', 'viewtopic_post_ip', 'viewtopic_post_repquote', 'viewtopic_post_report', 'viewtopic_post_edit', 'viewtopic_post_delete', 'viewtopic_post_attachmentimage', 'viewtopic_post_attachment', 'viewtopic_post_attach_noborder', 'viewtopic_post_attimg_noborder', 'viewtopic_post_sig', 'viewtopic_post_nosig', 'viewtopic_printable', 'viewtopic_printable_row', 'viewtopic_multipage', 'viewtopic_post_attachment_none', 'viewforum_rules', 'viewtopic_post_blog', 'viewtopic_post_rpg', 'viewforum_mpn_info', 'viewtopic_next_prev_links', 'viewtopic_captcha', 'css', 'error', 'footer', 'footer_querynum', 'footer_load', 'footer_phpsql', 'footer_totaltime', 'header', 'message', 'meta_tags', 'shadow', 'shadow2')
28.0.00041318SELECT t.tid, t.fid, t.subject, t.views, t.replies, t.closed, t.topped, l.uid as lp_uid, l.username as lp_user, l.dateline as lp_dateline, l.pid as lp_pid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid WHERE t.tid = '49875'
29.0.00017500SELECT * FROM ubb_forums WHERE fid='57' AND status='on'
30.0.00013399SELECT code, url FROM ubb_smilies WHERE type = 'smiley'
31.0.00008416SELECT find, replace1 FROM ubb_words
32.0.00014806SELECT id, title, posts, stars, allowavatars, avatarrank FROM ubb_ranks
33.0.00016785UPDATE ubb_threads SET views = views+1 WHERE tid = '49875' LIMIT 1
34.0.00032783SELECT COUNT(pid) FROM ubb_posts WHERE tid = '49875'
35.0.01023293SELECT t.tid as t_tid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_threads o ON o.tid = 49875 LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts x ON x.tid = o.tid WHERE l.dateline < x.dateline AND t.fid = '57' ORDER BY l.dateline DESC LIMIT 1
36.0.00956893SELECT t.tid as t_tid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_threads o ON o.tid = 49875 LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts x ON x.tid = o.tid WHERE l.dateline > x.dateline AND t.fid = '57' ORDER BY l.dateline ASC LIMIT 1
37.0.00025797SELECT vote_id FROM ubb_vote_desc WHERE topic_id = '49875'
38.0.00038815SELECT pid FROM ubb_posts WHERE tid = '49875' ORDER BY pid LIMIT 30, 30
39.0.00220490SELECT * FROM ubb_attachments WHERE pid IN('732325', '732328', '747626', '752366', '752368', '753638', '760450', '763779', '765371', '768031', '819268', '826008', '826010', '826011', '826059', '826070', '826083', '826114', '826115', '826117', '827846', '829996', '830036', '832066', '875967', '875972', '934683', '934808', '934831')
40.0.00150204SELECT p.*, m.*,w.time FROM ubb_posts p LEFT JOIN ubb_members m ON m.username = p.author LEFT JOIN ubb_whosonline w ON p.author = w.username WHERE p.fid = '57' AND p.tid = '49875' ORDER BY p.pid ASC LIMIT 30, 30