| [ Total Views: 665 | Total Replies: 10 | Thread Id: 5095 ] |
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on April 7th, 2003 at 10:36 PM |
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Largest produced vehicle ever?
I have seen that there are several versions to the story of what is the largest number produced of one car?
I have heard reports of Beetles, Golfs, Corolla's, F-Series trucks etc.
The question would have to include some parameters. I mean is it fair to compare the first Corolla to the most recent? Is there anything more than a
nut or washer similar from the first F series to the latest?
How close in genetic structure is the first Beetle to the latest Brazilian model?
Any opinions or factual info available?
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vw54
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| posted on April 8th, 2003 at 07:32 AM |
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the Toyota Corolla production story is the BIGGEST load of FU ing CRAP i have ever seen and or read about.
the only thing similar from the first Corollas to the lastest one is the FU ing spelling of the word Corolla
Stuff me they went from rear wheel drive to front wheel drive in only a few years.
I hate this subject.
[Edited on 7-4-2003 by vw54]
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 Phil74Camper
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| posted on April 8th, 2003 at 11:11 AM |
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We've been arguing and spewing over this for years.
Toyota first claimed that the Corolla had passed the Beetle's total back in about 1991. Now everyone knows that the Corolla has been redesigned
several times. It went from an inline, rear-drive design to a transverse, front drive design. The only thing the same is the spelling of the
'Corolla' badge.
For years the Guinness Book of Records refused to recognise the Corolla's record, based on just that argument. The Beetle still had the record,
as it WAS still the same car.
However - in the current 2003 edition, the Guinness Book has changed its mind. On page 141, there it is - the most 'widespread car in
production' is the Toyota Corolla - 24,986,607 produced by December 2000. It does say that the Corolla has been redesigned several times since
1966 and cannot be said to be the same car.
The Beetle still gets a mention underneath, saying 'more than 21 million old style Beetles' have been made. But you could also argue that
every part on the Beetle has been changed since 1938. The last German ones in 1978 still shared the metal retaining strip for the front bonnet rubber
from the 1938 model, but the Mexican ones of today have changed that too.
In the meantime, the Golf has since passed the Beetle's total and should pass 22 million this year.
The Ford F-series is different situation again. What started with the flathead V8 F100 in 1953 has since grown into a series of three-quarter ton F150
and F250 pickups, and the one ton F350 truck. Ford sells over a million of them a year in the USA alone - they are the biggest selling vehicle in the
States.
So the whole thing is now a big mess.
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Woozy
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| posted on April 8th, 2003 at 08:43 PM |
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I dont know if these stats are around anywhere but does anyone know how many of each major model revision were made ? ie for corolla's how many
RWD how many FWD (but there will be different models here etc)
Then look at the bug's and see how many distinct different models (mechanically not in looks) are there and how many of those were made ?
I think that could be a better way of looking at the numbers game 
Everyone needs something to belive in !
I belive i shall have a beer !
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PatB
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| posted on April 8th, 2003 at 10:19 PM |
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I guess the Corolla holds the record in a technical sense but the redesigns have been so major I'm going to have to take issue with Guinness on
this one.
Have a go at a little thought experiment. Remove all badging from a 1966 Corolla. Do the same with a 2003 model. Put them side by side and show them
to someone who's reasonably technically savvy but who's never seen any Toyota Corolla before. Yeah, I know, there's no such person.
That's why it's a thought experiment. Let them have a good look then ask them if they think they're basically the same car.
Do the same exercise with a 1930s prototype KdF Wagen and the latest Mexibeetle.
I'd bet London to a brick that the answers would be "no" and "yes" respectively notwithstanding the lack of parts
interchangeability on the Beetles. Theres more to continuity than either parts interchangeability or name. If we take another contender for the crown,
the Model T Ford (which doesn't make it in spite of the 5 million Ts that Ford "found" when the Beetle threatened their record), try
fixing your 1927 T with parts from a 1908 version and see how far you get! It's still a Model T though and not just in name.
Sorry, Beetle takes it , Corolla doesn't  .
And just to show I'm not biased against Japanese iron, if we open up the debate to include all motor vehicles, I suspect that Honda
would beat all with their C50/C70/C90 range of commuter motorcycles with production of basically the same machine running to about 30 gazillion  . Well, 20 million ten years ago and still in production as far as I know :P.
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70AutoStik
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| posted on April 8th, 2003 at 11:06 PM |
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Put a 66 Corolla next to a 2003 Corolla and ask a blonde information-desk worker if it's the same car, and _she'd_ laugh at you! The same
would be true for a Golf.
The beetle was produced as a beetle for longer (and in the same format,) than any car in history... I suspect the GBR just wanted some sponsorship to
buy them more Guinness! 
[The edit was I forgot an "n" in Guinness - sorry about the square brackets, my keyboard's a bit dodgy and I'm holding off to seeif anyone still makes a decent one - I really miss the old Honeywell!]
[Edited on 8-4-2003 by 70AutoStik]
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Spook
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| posted on April 9th, 2003 at 04:20 AM |
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Corolla is a generic name.
Not so much now, but in the 70's you could get a Corolla 2 door, 4 door, wagon or panel van.
All Corollas, but entirely different.
By the same token though, is there one part of a concept that will fit a beetle??
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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Bugged Again
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| posted on April 9th, 2003 at 07:35 AM |
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Its all called marketing and trying to get the next sucker in the door to buy the car.
Cheap advertising if your car is splashed all over the media as being the most produced. |
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vw54
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| posted on April 9th, 2003 at 07:44 AM |
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I think its more like propergander
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Its all called marketing and trying to get the next sucker
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And i know its the biggest load of horse shit you will ever hear.
:repuke:repuke:repuke:puke:puke:puke
[Edited on 8-4-2003 by vw54]
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BiX
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| posted on April 9th, 2003 at 08:35 AM |
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This is going to be a bit stupid, But what about including the type 2,3,4 with beetles. Arn't all of these "based" on the original
beetle design, rear engined, torsion bar front etc? Just got a different body on them thats all. Just like a corrola has changed shape and engine
placement at least these are still all rear engined. |
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PatB
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| posted on April 9th, 2003 at 09:56 PM |
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BiX has got a point. Any air-cooled VW is closer, spiritually, to the Beetle than an 03 Corolla is to a 66. I dunno how much difference
it'd really make to the numbers though. I'd have thought that Types 2, 3 and 4 production added together would still only be a small
percentage of Beetle production .
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on April 9th, 2003 at 10:26 PM |
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As I recall, Type 4 production was only about 400,000 - Simon Glen would have the exact figure close to hand. Type 3s I'm not sure, probably 1 or
2 million all up. Type 2 - now that's better. I think VW was up to about 5 million when they went to the series 3 Transporter in '79 - which
was still called a Type 2. I think they were up to 8 or 9 million when the front-drive T4 Transporter appeared in 1991 (it is NOT a Type 2).
I'm afraid this is an endless argument. Here's a few more points to ponder. Is a Golf 1 (1974-1983) the same as a Golf 2 (1984-1989) the
same as a Golf 3 (1990-1996) the same as a Golf 4 (1997-current)? I'd love to see the Golf overtake the Corolla, but the Golf has been redesigned
four times already - and soon to be 5 times when the Golf 5 comes out at the end of this year.
And is a Superbug (McPherson strut) the same as a Beetle, or is it a different car? The Superbug S and L (1302 and 1303) were both Type 131. The
cabrio was always a Type 151. The normal torsion-bar Beetle was Type 111. What about Ghias - are they Beetles? They use a Type 3 chassis and are Type
141.
Technically, the New Beetle's total should be added to the Golf's, not the original Beetle's.
If you start including all the different air-cooled VWs as the same car, that's no good. You would then have to count all the small-block Chevys
as the same car - and they've made over 50 million of them.
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vw54
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| posted on April 10th, 2003 at 07:44 AM |
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Fill
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I'd love to see the Golf overtake the Corolla, but the Golf has been redesigned four times already
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At least the GOLF mechanical layout has remained the same Front engine East west n front wheel drive.
Whereas the shit box Toyota has gone from rear wheel drive in line engine to front wheel drive east west
bugger me.
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BiX
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| posted on April 10th, 2003 at 09:15 AM |
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| Quote: |
And is a Superbug (McPherson strut) the same as a Beetle, or is it a different car? The Superbug S and L (1302 and 1303) were both Type 131. The
cabrio was always a Type 151. The normal torsion-bar Beetle was Type 111. What about Ghias - are they Beetles? They use a Type 3 chassis and are Type
141.
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That is my point all of these shared the same basic platform, ie rear engined, aircooled, and therefore they could be classed as derivative of the
same basic platform(this could include kombi's, I dont want to offend kombi owners though). As for the super BUGS, they have more in common with
a torsion bar beetle than a front drive corolla does with a rear drive one. As for the chevy, are the engine and chassis of the same basic design all
the way through? |
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on April 10th, 2003 at 12:59 PM |
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At least the corollas should be put into two different groups.. and NOT together...
The basic Golf hatchback has always looked very similar IMHO.. but in the looks department... there were TWO Beetles - flat windscreen & curved
Windscreen... again IMHO.. even when broken down mechanically into into rear engined rear wheel drive (VW) - against corollas front engined front or
rear drive... NOT both... the Beetle will always win out.... and I do believe the NEW beetle shouldn't be counted - except if toyotas count on
Names Only- and basically - a name is nothing... The "Beetle- Kafer" wasn't officially the Beetles name... it came from what it looked
like.. by ordinary people... different names in different Languages....
Anyway.. It looks like I will have to print stickers and go to all the book stores and put the stickers over the Corollas in the Guiness book of
records... and set the record straight..... Lee
:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb:o
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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