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 76camper
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 posted on April 28th, 2006 at 11:33 PM |
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consequences....
Hey guyz,
I think the noise in my t4 might be the cam gear coming loose... What would bet he consequence if i keep driving? Could it eventually come right off
and leave a valve open and the piston smash the valve?
cheers
Edward
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71EJVan
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| posted on April 29th, 2006 at 08:53 AM |
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One or more valves through a piston
One or more bent con rods (in extreme cases)
Damage to the cam and or cam gear
I don't mean to scare you but get it looked at.
Brendan
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 29th, 2006 at 09:36 AM |
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yea i wish i could.... i dont really have time atm coz im doin hsc this year and its going to start to get real hectic for the next few months and i
need the bus as a daily driver.... Im not keen on paying some1 else to do it, rather do it myself and know its going to last. But then i would need a
spare t4 engine to chuck in while i do the rebuild 
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 Bizarre
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| posted on April 29th, 2006 at 10:19 AM |
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If it is the cam gear coming loose - then you might be off the road soon any way.
At least get confirmed what it is cause you cant drive it if it is a loose cam gear
Futue te ipsum!!!
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bus914
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| posted on April 29th, 2006 at 11:45 AM |
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how did you come to the conclusion, that its the cam gear?
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76camper
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| posted on April 29th, 2006 at 04:47 PM |
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im not certain but its a possibility.... its just the ticking/noking noise the engine is making.... wana come over and listen to it for me? or if ya
close ill drive to ur place (i see your in syd). Are there any other effects of a loose cam gear besides noises?
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on April 29th, 2006 at 05:52 PM |
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If it is the cam gear (common in type 4 engines) you will only hear it at low revs and as you accelerate and back off. At sustained higher revs it
would be held back and you won't hear it.
Once the shitty factory rivets give you are in a world of misery... bent pushrods, valves hitting pistons ets.
Build it now and it's only cam... wait ant it'll be cam, pistons, valves....
The cam may still be fine and replacing the rivets will solve tyhe problem, but gotta strip it right down to do it.
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76camper
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 08:07 AM |
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yea well my bro is going over seas now so i cud drive his car so im thinking i might do it. Would it be worth putting in a spicier cam and maybe fresh
lifters>??
and yea the noise isnt so notice able at high revs.... its real bad at cold start ups, but im guessing it might jyust be the additional noise of the
valves.... is there any way i coud pin point the noise?
thanks for the help guyz
cheers
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66deluxe
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 09:22 AM |
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Checkout http://www.tighecams.com.au here in Brisbane they have a few grinds
available and also have a cam selection sheet to help determine the right cam for you. I had my stock cam reground to their 104 spec and installed in
my otherwise stock engine with 40 IDF Weber Carbs and it was a great driver then i held it in fourth going up mountain range on my way to Woodford
once and i was overtaking everyone their look on their faces was one of disbelief, the look on the commodore drivers face behind me was getting angry
as he could not or the fact that i wouldn't let him get past me. This cam had awseome acceleration onto the highway also could happily change into
fourth at around 90 kph and accelerate to 140. They also do a cam gear mod that bolts the camgear top the cam and provides a lot of clearance from
the oil pump. They can also make a fresh cam billet to grind your cam from, hope this helps you out, cheers Damo. Oh yeah i have rebuilt a type 4
engine in less than a weekend, and had it last over 80000 k's before i pulled it out as i sold the bus.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
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76camper
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 10:29 AM |
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sweet man! Wats the low end torque like? Does it sacrifice low end torque to give ya better high rpm power? I got another cam here off another engine
so could send that up if thats teh way i was going to go. I would probably do the rebuild over a week or two.... just tossing up where or not i shud
do a few other things at the same time but that all depends on what it looks like once i tear it down.
Im still not 100% certain its the cam gear and it would suck to tear it down and find it was a dodgy rocker or somethin (i have checked).... ill give
it another week or so to try and find out what the noise is but im leaning towards the cam gear as the culprit.
How much is an average cam off the bloke you mentioned? Would it be cheaper just to get the engle(?) 110 or something off the shelf??
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 barls
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 10:45 AM |
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also talk to richard at vforce he has reasonably priced cams for the t4. ive got his mild in a 2L in my bug but have yet to drive it as im currently
deployed
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66deluxe
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 11:05 AM |
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Low end torque wasn't sacrificed at all with the webbers, stock carbs should be fine also, as for using an Engle 110 their for type 1's only, won't
fit type 4 at all. I also have a Vforce type 4 cam unused but it has a total of .435" lift and a Webcam #86 unused but these wouldn't work well in
a bus, but used in a type 4 in a beetle will perform great. As for regrind on your cam it costs about $62.50 plus shipping, one ground from a billet
is $225 and cam gear mod is $50.00 if you get cam gear mod done also(highly recommended) ensure that your cam gear is an aluminium gear not a
magnesium gear, mag ones have been known to break.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 04:27 PM |
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wow thats heaps cheaper than i thought! Ill most likely go that path then. What sorta work do they do to the cam gear? Just tidy up the gears or
something?
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66deluxe
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 05:00 PM |
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They tap 5/16 threads in the camshaft and drill camgear for bolt clearance, very neat and wont come undone and also allows use of a Type 1 Schadek
26 or 30 mm oil pump, i'd drill and tap oil gallery plugs for NPT threaded plugs if i was using a 30mm pump due to the added pressure. But your
stock pump will be fine, in a stock engine plus you already own stock pump just check that it is ok first.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on April 30th, 2006 at 06:03 PM |
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pump is perfect... i get 80psi max at start up (pressure releif after that) and then when hot at idle its around 20psi at the oil switch and never get
a light flicker no matter wat oil temp so im happy with it.
sounds like this place is the goods so i might give them a call if i do end up tearing it down. Do you think it would be worth while getting new
lifters also?
http://www.tighecams.com.au/cars.htm
is that chart refering to the 2000cc type 4?
[ Edited on 30-4-2006 by 76camper ]
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aggri1
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| posted on May 1st, 2006 at 08:16 AM |
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Hey there!
I think I know exactly the sound you mean. Middle of the motor and slower than the engine it sounds like to me. My bus has been doing that for at
least a year and a half now, and OK she's not real with it as far as power goes, but that's not how I drive her (she's pretty tired). It seems to
be a very common problem, I was talking to my Volksy mech' and he reckons it's just what you have said, loose cam gear.
I figure I'll just drive nicely, change oil when it's due, maintain tappets etc... and save up 'till I can get my spare motor rebuilt. I wouldn't
worry too much, other old TIV's I've heard have a similar noise. But then, that second post there might well be right, who can say unless you test
it! :-\
Good luck, A.
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66deluxe
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| posted on May 1st, 2006 at 09:42 AM |
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You would have to get new lifters for sure unless your current ones are in good condition and able to be refaced, if they are good, number them with
their position in the engine (ie 1intake, 1 exhaust)and put them in separate bags and ask that if they can reface them that they do so in that order.
Other wise get a new set try for German Mahle ones first if not the Mahle Brazilian type, i used a set of brazilian lifters with my reground cam and
they held up well althoughgerman ones are better. They also parkerize the cams ask them to parkerize the lifters too helps out with break in of the
cam, and yes the 2000 cam list is for the type 4.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on May 1st, 2006 at 08:49 PM |
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cool thanks man you been a great help! one last question, which cut did you get?
cheers
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66deluxe
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| posted on May 2nd, 2006 at 04:15 PM |
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I got my stock cam reground to grind#104, if i was to do it again i would start out with a new cambillet from them.
[ Edited on 2-5-2006 by 66deluxe ]
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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76camper
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on May 2nd, 2006 at 05:26 PM |
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took my bus down to the local vw place today and asked if the mechanic could hav a listen. He did and said that he thought it had something to do with
the rocker assembly, and didnt really sound like the cam shaft. Was just waiting for him to bring some tech word for a valve adjustment that wud fix
the prob and only cost $300 lol (even tho i just set the valves).... told me to just wait for it to get real loud.... so maybe its something to do
with the rockers and i wont need to rebuild after all, fingers crossed!!!
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66deluxe
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| posted on May 2nd, 2006 at 07:36 PM |
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Did you check to see if the rocker assembly nuts were torqued down tight, sometimes that can be an issue and should be checked everytime you do a
valve adjustment, torque to 14ftlbs, i found one a bit loose once.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
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76camper
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| posted on May 2nd, 2006 at 07:59 PM |
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thats next on the agenda, screwed my elbow in footy on the weekend so i might try get dad to help torque it, but they seem tight enough. Is there
anything else in there that may be ticking? There was one thing i noticed, the #1 inlet rocker seemed to high the valve a bit to the right (looking at
head) more than the others....
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bus914
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| posted on May 2nd, 2006 at 08:11 PM |
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| Quote: |
im not certain but its a possibility.... its just the ticking/noking noise the engine is making.... wana come over and listen to it for me? or if ya
close ill drive to ur place (i see your in syd). Are there any other effects of a loose cam gear besides noises?
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i wouldn't know, was just curious as i was told the same thing about mine by some mechanic 3 years ago.
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76camper
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| posted on May 2nd, 2006 at 09:22 PM |
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bugger
well i have been thinking alot about this lately. I thought another possibility is that the valve springs are not providing enough force to get the
lifter back onto the cam following its contours and is loosing contact with the cam, then slamming into it and making a noise. Is this common? It
might also explain the sort of lumpy power my bus gets... food for thought, let me know what you guyz recon!
cheers
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