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 wombatone
A.k.a.: Michael
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 posted on June 5th, 2006 at 08:15 PM |
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to much under steer
Looking at setting up the front end of my rally car for hill climbs and sprints. At the moment it is stock 61 beetle, with disc that push the track
out about 15mm a side. I’m running 165 R15 Michelins at the moment but am getting too much under steer. What tyres are people running etc. how do
you get them to turn in?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 08:48 PM |
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i never got rid of excessive understeer till i worked my way up to 195's.
195/50s
205/60's potenza GIII's
on 6 X 15 inch fronts and seven inch (porsche) rears
with whiteline bars front and rear does the trick for me.
biggest problem now is oil starvation in the corners!
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wombatone
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:21 PM |
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can you fit rubber like that under standard guards or are you wide guards? I figure I will have to go wide at the front at least as my 195 fit under
the rear at the moment.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:22 PM |
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under standard guards!
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guru
A.k.a.: Mr. Meaner
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:22 PM |
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Hey, mr. one, are you using the ball joint-irs pan? wot size are the sway bars?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:23 PM |
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link and swing.
18mm front 22mm rear
[ Edited on 5-6-06 by dumone ]
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guru
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:29 PM |
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coilover shocks with 'relaxed' leaves & torsion bars?
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:38 PM |
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torsion bars of choice would be sway-a-way, 26mm or 28 sway-a-way for me soon
no need for coil overs, bilsteins or konis do the trick
run two height adjusters up front for standard "spring" rate, one for stiffer ride.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=33580
[ Edited on 5-6-06 by dumone ]
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guru
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:44 PM |
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ok. wot about caster & camber settings? ball joint front that i have has adjusters. i have a static hub gauge for setup but dont really know where to
start.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:49 PM |
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http://www.clubvw.org.au/some_articles_of_interest_writte.htm
read inch by inch & handle with care
[ Edited on 5-6-06 by dumone ]
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guru
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 09:58 PM |
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OH MY GOD!! praise the lord o mighty -one... the info i've been looking for. very much appreciated.
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:02 PM |
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knock yourself out killer
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64vwmark
A.k.a.: Mark Shepherd
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by wombatone
Looking at setting up the front end of my rally car for hill climbs and sprints. At the moment it is stock 61 beetle, with disc that push the track
out about 15mm a side. I’m running 165 R15 Michelins at the moment but am getting too much under steer. What tyres are people running etc. how do
you get them to turn in?
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Have you tried adjusting your tyre pressures? Normally the front pressure is lower than the back tyre pressure, which lengthens the
tread, giving more grip to the front.
Beach Buggy
74 L Beetle
Mk4 Golf |
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:08 PM |
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yeah helps 20-22psi front
24-28psi rear
think he's running 195's on the rear tho, so understeer is a certainty
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wombatone
A.k.a.: Michael
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:09 PM |
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What kind of offset have you rims, to get the to fit under standard guards? Also running a quaife.
[ Edited on 5-6-2006 by wombatone ]
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hellbugged
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:17 PM |
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on here, look under fuchs', they're the same as the cookie cutters i'm running.
going to fuchs' in the next couple of weeks.
jealous on the diff there matey. got to go irs before i can use my ZF...
http://www.magrowheels.com/wheelwts.html
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hellbugged
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:21 PM |
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narrowest tyre on widest wheel gives best turn in and quickest response (within reccomendations for width)
so a 195 on a six inch rim will respond better than same tyre on a five incher
[ Edited on 5-6-06 by dumone ]
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wombatone
A.k.a.: Michael
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:32 PM |
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I not think 205 would it under the back of my bug with the 6x15 I'm running but how would 195 front and rear go? would you still run lowwer pressure
in the front?
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fullnoise
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:53 PM |
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Do you have any pictures of the car understeering that you could post?
Is the front lowered?
Do you have any aftermarket components on the car at the moment?
CYA CT
esratrams
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hellbugged
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 10:56 PM |
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yeah, i just like the feel of the 205's. with the limo diff, you for sure could get away with a it of oversteer:thumb
as Steve Carter pointed out in a recent thread, the tyres we run on our VW's are most often designed for much heavier vehicles, so you can get away
with the benefits of lower pressures and still have the tyres live a good lifespan.
the very lightweight of the front end allows lower pressures than the rear with the added weight of the drive line back there.
consider using a quicksteer extension on the steering arm. it's the best way to gain enough lock, quick enough to catch em when you are pushing the
traction limits
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wombatone
A.k.a.: Michael
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| posted on June 5th, 2006 at 11:51 PM |
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thanks for the clues will have to see about new rims and sway bars.
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56astro
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| posted on June 6th, 2006 at 01:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
consider using a quicksteer extension on the steering arm. it's the best way to gain enough lock, quick enough to catch em when you are pushing the
traction limits
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Do tell more Damo
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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wombatone
A.k.a.: Michael
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| posted on June 6th, 2006 at 08:17 PM |
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I have got plenty of lock, just no grip. As for the quick steer extension on the steering arm, I would have thought there would be illegal on a
street car. Don’t really know. Can an arm of another model be used? Are there different length arms? As for ride hight it is stock. The only
pics I have at the moment are on the Ampol re-run thread.
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 10:43 PM |
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My thoughts.
1. The quaife could be causing the front end push.
2. If the front coil-overs increase the front spring rate then you're not getting enough weight transfer on to the front wheels to allow good
turn-in.
Try
1. Softer front shocks
2. Stiffer rear springs
3. Increase tow-out on the front
I hope that helps.
CYA CT
esratrams
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 10:44 PM |
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One last thing.
How much do your tyre pressures increase by from cold to hot? Are the front tyres working?
esratrams
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 10:46 PM |
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Do you have bump stops on the front shocks? How much room do you have before they they stop compressing. If you're hitting the bump stops that could
also be a cause.
CYA CT
esratrams
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wombatone
A.k.a.: Michael
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| posted on June 8th, 2006 at 06:16 PM |
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I’m not sure what the tyre temps are doing, I never got a change to check on that but will next time I take it out. The front end is dead stock
except I am running GR-2 KYB all round. There is lots of wheel travel except the wheel hit the guards before the bump stops as the track is 30 mm
wide due to the discs. I have picked up some softer shocker so will trial them soon, will also have to get a pair of aero guards for the front so I
can lower it a bit and stop the wheels hitting. The rear torsion bars are type 3 Wagon so I think they are harder than stock.
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