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 fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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 posted on September 13th, 2006 at 11:27 AM |
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CT056 - Dutton Rally Results
This is just some waffle which won't necessarily make the quiet Circuit racing section more interesting.
Now that the supersprint season has finished for this year I need to contemplate how I'm going to improve the car for next year.
Handling.
The turn-in is ferocious and the car hops through a couple of corners. I'm going to swap the rear springs from the 27mm ones and go back to type
3s.
Engine.
It's really strong and stays cool so all I'm also thinking of airboxing the carbies so the get cold air.
Safety
I've received a few comments in scrutineering about the harnesses being mounted to the floor above the gearbox. The need to be mounted higher so the
straps won't pull down which means mounting them to a harness bar or below the back window.
I'm considering getting a FIA approved chromoly rollcage so I can enter some targa-type events in the future.
Gearbox
I've always maintained I'm going to make do with a stock box because that's were I draw the line on cost. However having another gear to play with
would add to the fun factor and I'm sure it would be good for 1 - 2 seconds at some tracks. At every track I use 3rd everywhere except the main
straight. So I'm considering a tall third gear. I've been getting a fair bit of insider rear wheel spin but I don't think the budget stretches to a
LSD.
Brakes.
T1 disks and T3 drums work well on my car. i just wonder if the crumby material the drums are made from will need annual machining.
Thoughts?
CYA CT
[ Edited on 13-9-2006 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 8-1-2007 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 8-1-2007 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 25-3-2007 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 13-4-2007 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 7-5-2007 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 21-5-2007 by fullnoise ]
[ Edited on 28-5-2007 by fullnoise ]
esratrams
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VWCOOL
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| posted on September 13th, 2006 at 11:44 AM |
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What makes you say the T3 drums material is crummy...? Before I started playing with discs I had a set on for about 200,000km of including some
sprints and driver days and they've still got meat. What problems are you seeing?
[ Edited on 13-9-2006 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on September 13th, 2006 at 02:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fullnoise
Safety
I've received a few comments in scrutineering about the harnesses being mounted to the floor above the gearbox. The need to be mounted higher so the
straps won't pull down which means mounting them to a harness bar or below the back window.
Thoughts?
CYA CT
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That is interesting CT, in the dragracing rule book they ask that the harnesses actually go down at a certain angle.
The don't like level straps.
Best option is to keep them short and anchored closer to you.
That is where a good cage can solve many problems.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on September 13th, 2006 at 02:38 PM |
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I distorted my old T3 drums and all I could find to replace them was Mexican ones.
The shoes wore unevely so I went to get some new linings. I took the drums so they could be matched and checkde for roundness.
I suggested some competition linings but specilized brake and clutch said the metal on the drum wasn't crash-hot and that competition linings would
eat the drum in no-time. So they just gave me some linings to match the drums.
They've been excellent but you have to keep them adusted. I usually have to adjust them 1 and sometimes 2 notches after each sprint.
CYA CT
esratrams
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VWCOOL
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| posted on September 13th, 2006 at 03:47 PM |
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fair enough...
Looks like you need some rear discs!! 
Pay your debts, CxxT
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on September 16th, 2006 at 11:17 PM |
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Some changes have begun. But they're just small ones for now.
I removed the el-cheapo aluminium pulley and replaced it with a heavy steel one machined by Dave Stoker.
Straight away that solved an oil leak. The aluminium pulley had become a loose fit allowing oil to get past.
The main reason for the heavy pulley is that my flywheel is too light. You should see how much has been taken off it. Last time the engine was out I
tried get another one but it was all too hard. It seems the sabadusi crank has a unique 8 dowel pattern.
Heavy pulleys like the Berg Equalizer and Achiever are supposed to make the engine live longer aren't they?
Do they help torque & slow the rate at which the revs build when the tyres break traction? I hope so.
Apparently I've been running the wrong spark plugs too. I felt the engine likes plugs with a Bosch heat range of 7. When I got the NGK equivalent it
was also a 7. I'm told it should be a 6 so that's what I'm about to put in.
I'm also trying Motul Competition 15w-50 instead of the Castrol GP 50 20w-50 or whatever it's called now.
Hopefully it will be a nice smooth drive from Sydney to Warwick for the drag racing at the end of the month. I think 9.7 was my previous best for the
1/8th set at Oran Park when the last VW Nationals drags was held there. I think I can knock half a second off that.
CYA CT
esratrams
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on September 20th, 2006 at 05:22 PM |
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Man, Love your car.
Listen, I've been reading the post and it made me think. I don't know what your budget is, but if you are even considering cracking open the gearbox
and going to a different set of gears, doesn't it make sense to do it properly and putting a lsd in to complete it. I know the quaiffes are
ridiculously exy, but the Debiasis are making some now. Maybe they are more affordable?
Anyway, just an idea. keep up the good work. 
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JVLR
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| posted on September 21st, 2006 at 09:35 AM |
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Interesting topic CT,..... First.harness should be mounted sholder hight.(any good scruitee will tell you that)especially if doing a log book.....
Second. why a chromolly cage? very dear$$$$ wise.Depending what you are doing 4,6 etc point cage a CDS RACETECH cages are just as good and aloud to
use in Targa racing.If doing Targa you will need to do a ROPs registration form....Thirdly.Budget to play with$$$$ THE BUG IS BITING HARDER:P
[ Edited on 21-9-2006 by JVLR ]
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on September 21st, 2006 at 12:57 PM |
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Roll Bar & Gearbox
Roll Bar,
JVL just inspired me to made a quick enquiry to Bond Roll Bars.
The cost of a new 6 point mild steel cage is $800. Side intrusion bars and a harness bar are $121 each. That's $1263.
The hoop and front bars should bolt in to the existing holes used by the alloy bar. The rear bars are now designed to bolt in to the rear wheel arches
and I'll probably have to trim and weld the plates to suit.
I asked about a dash bar to connect the two front bars and it wasn't recommended because it would be too close to my legs.
Gearbox.
Hi Pete, I'd love a custom ratio gearbox with a lsd but I just can't justify the cost. I had a friend who spent $6000 to do one properly. I figure I
might be able to tune some of the wheel-spin out.
I'm about to change the rear suspension and I'll see what effect that has on spinning the inside rear wheel. I went for a smaller rear sway-bar last
year was to reduce the inside rear wheel spin and it seemed to work.
Inside rear wheel-spin seems to be a problem at Oran Park through Suttons and coming on to the straight. At Eastern Creek it happens mainly at turn 2
and coming on to the straight again. Wakefield Park seems to be okay through the fish hook. All these bends are third gear.
How's your car going JVL? Did you fix the clutch?
CYA CT
esratrams
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JVLR
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| posted on September 21st, 2006 at 01:13 PM |
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Yeah CT,all done.....3000kennedy pp with aceramic clutch.Nothing wrong with the 3 puck just changed the lot.One of the springs broke of the
finger...Yep its big $$$$dollars for gearboxs thats what mind cost as well..... CT thats pretty cheap for a cage:thumb Rule of thumb that i use is,a
cage is good for saftey but is better when it stiffens the chassis as well.
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boof2332
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| posted on September 25th, 2006 at 06:36 AM |
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I have an email from Albins gears and it seems they have dropped their price. All the gearsets and mainshaft total about $1200 which I think is really
cheap. LSD?? or keep a superdiff and you could have a mad box for $1500.
I have some calipers that may suit your rear...and a w lid you can have for free. I tried to give it to Paul, and as much of a taker as he is, he said
another time!
Matt
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on September 25th, 2006 at 08:09 AM |
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1200 plus gst?
core 250 to 350
labour 500+or_
LSD 2000 quaife will still spin the inside wheel on some turns
other parts like synchros and bearings ???
I woulds say about 5 to 5500 plus gst.
Find a good ZF and that will be money well spent,
but only with low power(small splines)
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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 vw54
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| posted on September 25th, 2006 at 08:43 AM |
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CT i think yr right about the rear Type 3 drums the brazilian ones are crap metal as you say
You may have to hunt around for some old German drums or convert to discs
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on September 25th, 2006 at 02:44 PM |
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Food for thought.
Drums vs disks
Everyone keeps saying convert to rear disks! I'm coming up with more and more reasons not to;
1. My pocket will be $800 - $1000 lighter,
2. I don't want to increase the track at the rear. The rear is already 5mm wider (When the rims are the same f & R) than the front. I can't space
the fronts to compensate because there's no room left under the guards.
3. My car works well with the drums. They're perfectly proportioned and I never lock them up.
I think the secrets are to let them cool on the warm-down lap and then not put the handbrake on in the pits and allow them to cool unevenly. Keep them
well adjusted and then get new linings as soon as they start to wear unevenly.
Besides I like the idiosyncrasys of Webers and brass jets and I'm starting to think that way about the drums. I like old school parts.
I'd love to see my W-decklid back one day. My '54 looks rather incomplete without it.
Gearbox
I might try and borrow a box with a LSD and do a track day. I'll see if I have $5500 more fun. Otherwise I won't bother modifying one; unless I
start having reliability issues that necessitate something stronger.
W-decklid
Hi Mat. My 54 is looking rather sad without it's W-decklid. It didn't fall out of the back of your Kombi by any chance did it? Hopefully Paul will
pick it up soon.
esratrams
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 25th, 2006 at 06:43 PM |
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Hi CT,
i'd say the EA discs are norrower than the type 3 drums.
pretty sure the discs are within 1mm offset of the late beetle drums.
have a really good ebay contact for ea calipers (new less than $350 pair-cheaper recod- with pads!and hoses $50 pair)
i have contacts to get bootlids louvered if thats what your after to get the w back.
... snapped up a ZF diff off Samba landed for $1000 recently....they're out there still
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on September 26th, 2006 at 09:17 PM |
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I don't know much abougt rear disk brake conversions. I just assumed the disks were bolted on to the outside of a type 3 flange or machined down type
1 drum. I thought the width of the disk mounting surface would increase the track? I suppose if you turn the flange into a hub you could bolt a disk
up anywhere depending on the design. have you got any pictures?
Also, I've got standard type 1 calipers on the front and I don't like the idea of having bigger calipers at the back.
I follow Jak around the trac. He has falcon brakes on the rear and he locks the rears occasionally even though he's got type 4 front calipers.
Thanks for the offer to louver the boot lid. Have you seen the job my panel beater did to my engine lid to fit the kombi grills in it? Don't tell
anyone it's not a factory cabrio lid will you now!
The thing that worries me about a ZF is that it might cause a lot of understeer. Mind you that would probably suit my current setup.
Thanks for the thoughts y'all.
CYA CT
esratrams
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 26th, 2006 at 09:41 PM |
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Bat69 is running a ZF in his gearbox..................handles the same as my Quaife.
The softer rear setup will probably help.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on September 26th, 2006 at 09:46 PM |
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Take the drum off the drive flange and add the extra thickness of the disc and there's less than 5mm difference
You should install Type 3 twin-pins up front...
[ Edited on 27-9-2006 by VWCOOL ]
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Pay your debts, CxxT
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 26th, 2006 at 10:28 PM |
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there are some pics and parts numbers etc here CT....
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=42417&page=1
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bat69
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| posted on September 27th, 2006 at 08:41 PM |
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As Carig said, I run a ZF LSD in the rear of the beetle and I dont have an understeer problem at all. Understeer is not really a sympton of an LSD or
even a CIG, the way the car is set up is. Even if an LSD (or CIG) did promote understeer, a couple of minor changes to your suspension setup and it
would be fixed.
White Knuckle Racing Team
"Drive it like dirt"
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humpty
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| posted on September 29th, 2006 at 01:39 AM |
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Hey CT.... I have some info on brakes for you....
The set-up on my Square is brilliant!
I have MAZDA RX7 4 pots ($400), and DBA Supra rotors ($95 each I think) on the front. And on the rear I have complete MAGNA discs brakes ($100)....
They are very similar to EA brakes but much smaller.... I still run the OEM master cylinder. I have the OEM TIII hub on the rear, machined to fit in
the disc. On the front I machined the OEM TIII disc done to make a hub and slipped the Supra rotor over that.... You will noticed I changed the PCD as
well.
[ Edited on 28-9-2006 by humpty ]
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wombatone
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| posted on September 30th, 2006 at 12:47 AM |
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bat69 could you please out line the changes needed to tune out understeer. I run a quaife and far to much understeer.
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fullnoise
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| posted on October 3rd, 2006 at 07:20 PM |
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Post Warwick.
Remove the bumpers.
Fit skinny front wheels.
Buy a stroker crank.
Finally bolt on the IDAs.
Raise the rear.
Weld up the diff.
Prepare to break gearboxes.
Eat more of Dave Butlers cup cakes.
CYA CT
esratrams
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humpty
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| posted on October 3rd, 2006 at 07:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fullnoise
Remove the bumpers.
Fit skinny front wheels.
Buy a stroker crank.
Finally bolt on the IDAs.
Raise the rear.
Weld up the diff.
Prepare to break gearboxes.
Eat more of Dave Butlers cup cakes.
CYA CT
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Sounds like your ready then....:thumb
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on October 3rd, 2006 at 10:03 PM |
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And convert it back to a swinger
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humpty
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| posted on October 4th, 2006 at 12:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
And convert it back to a swinger
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We are talking about CT here Craig.... Its not always about you! :kiss
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bat69
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| posted on October 4th, 2006 at 12:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by wombatone
bat69 could you please out line the changes needed to tune out understeer. I run a quaife and far to much understeer.
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There are numerous things which can be done to tune out understeer such as making your rear suspension harder or front softer, adjust ride heights,
swab bars, wheel alignment settings. These are just a few things which you can play with.
White Knuckle Racing Team
"Drive it like dirt"
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 4th, 2006 at 11:20 AM |
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tyre pressure is a good/easy place to start
Pay your debts, CxxT
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david777
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| posted on October 5th, 2006 at 01:56 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWCOOL
tyre pressure is a good/easy place to start
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Can you be slightly more specific?
Front & rear pressure differences?
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 5th, 2006 at 09:18 AM |
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Try experimenting with less in the front and more in the rear
Pay your debts, CxxT
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