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 Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 31st, 2008 at 10:54 PM |
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bet the kadrons would make more power  .
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56astro
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| posted on September 1st, 2008 at 06:55 AM |
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You guys don't understand why I have gone down the EFI-route.
What size TB are used on other 2 litre production engines?
If you put your carbie-thinking-cap on and have a look at just about every single production car on the road you will find faults with the intake
system regarding "air flow". But in my/Westi's design we have about 1/2 a litre of volume per runner. How much air can 1 cylinder take in 1
stroke?
It's not about power, it's about a broad torque curve, and a ssmmooootthh running engine. If I wanted power I'd have gone down the steroid route in
the first place.
Keep up guys, it's the 21st century!!
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 vw54
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| posted on September 1st, 2008 at 07:56 AM |
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| Quote: |
Keep up guys, it's the 21st century!!
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you tell eum Steve they dont understand I did exactly what your doing makes sense to me keep up the good work and hurry up n finish the job
will yar
I started after you and have had mine going for 12 months now
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westi
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what the
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| posted on September 2nd, 2008 at 02:43 PM |
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please do not change the throttle body as it is all in the tune.
please ,please please.
we are running 90mm on 4cyl engines they are as smooth as silk to drive.we even have done a 100mm on our latest project.
most factory cars in the 2ltr classes these days come with a minimum of 65mm.and they produce good torque from very low in the rev range.
even the little cube engines are still running 50mm.1.3/1,4 yaris's and stuff like that.
it is good to see it all happening,can't wait to see her finished.
down sharon.
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56astro
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| posted on September 2nd, 2008 at 03:18 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
it is good to see it all happening,can't wait to see her finished.
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Maaate, did you think it had come to a sad end?
Not on your life!!
The 'tuner' (for want of a better word) said that they had got close to max. air flow with
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Judsons4eva
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| posted on September 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 PM |
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Throttle body size calculator - http://dairally.net/daihard/chas/MiscCalculators/DaiThrottle.htm
550 Porsche Spyder
56 Oval mit Judson
96 Porsche 993 C2
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56astro
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| posted on September 3rd, 2008 at 08:50 PM |
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MISSION ACCOMPLISHED 
Load runs done today after some muckin around with the fuel pressure reg and other stuff.
Max RWHP atm is 69.2 (91 RON unleaded).
Redline has been set @ 5200 (rather than 5500) as that's where the power begins to drop off.
Still some tuning to do tomorrow on the cold start-ups and stuff, but otherwise pretty much finished.
I got some video footage but it needs to be edited as the files are too large for photobucket.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 PM |
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power shouldn't be dropping off below 5500rpm............that combo produces 85hp on kadrons.
Not hassling you Steve, but you should be getting more than 69hp.
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 PM |
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great news to have it going Steve
do the curves look nice and even ?...........doesn't sound like you have driven it yet, keen to know how different it feels when you do, be sure to
drop in on me!
realizing your not after maximum attack, but it would be nice to have some mapping beyond the HP drop off , as it can be quicker in some instances to
rev more than saccrifice the time it takes to change gears
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Judsons4eva
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| posted on September 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 PM |
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http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0301vwt_the_first_vw_trends_dyno_day/
Question? The link above is a range of VW's on test with RWP on some modest performance engines of around 100rwhp. Are these yanks dreaming or am I
missing something? What is your engine specs? The EFI setup looks like it is designed for 120hp+ flywheel hp.
I accept you are still tuning and the RPM is still low.
550 Porsche Spyder
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96 Porsche 993 C2
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 06:26 AM |
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am i missing sumthing  .........there's nothing modest in that
link?
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dangerous
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 06:48 AM |
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Yes their wheel dynos read more than ours.
Most of their calculations claim wheel power to be the same as our FW power.
I wish mine was that good but it aint.
I would be trying to get them to tune it at least 10% past the rpm at which peak power occurs.
Great installation.
Good work.
85 wheel power with Kadrons Craig?
Thats pretty damn good.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 07:52 AM |
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Everyone seems to get hung up on HP figures. That's fine in competition circles and the like.
My car is a daily driver, like other people's Magnas and Dunnydores. So in my case the torque numbers, curve and spread are more important. Not peak
HP @ high revs. After all, how long does the engine sit in the peak HP rev range anyways!! (Not including your work car Craig!!)
The redline on the spec sheet was 5500, so reducing that by 300RPM is no biggy.
Dave, I will pass on the "10%" suggestion to them today
Hopefully, it will be finished today, but I'm not expecting to be able to get to the Engineer and RTA until next week.
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Mick058
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 08:18 AM |
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looking good Steve.
Now im on a steep learning curve and am seeking to understand, but even if your after a daily driver, why would you set the RPM below peak power?
So the base peaks at 5500rpm, and can rev to 6200rpm - what would be the advantage in setting it at 5200rpm? How would that give you a better torque
curve? Isn't that the point of forking out for the twin plugs too...
Cheers, Mick
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 08:46 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Mick058
looking good Steve.
Now im on a steep learning curve and am seeking to understand, but even if your after a daily driver, why would you set the RPM below peak power?
So the base peaks at 5500rpm, and can rev to 6200rpm - what would be the advantage in setting it at 5200rpm? How would that give you a better torque
curve? Isn't that the point of forking out for the twin plugs too...
Cheers, Mick
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Mick, you will notice that I no longer run carbies. All the HP and rev limits quoted for the base 1915 were for carbies.
I have gone for a single TB inlet for torque (mainly determined by EFI runner length), tuning simplicity, parts replacement, and noise reduction.
I haven't (and probably never will) had the opportunity to compare my set-up with EXACTLY the same engine without EFI, single TB, twin ignition. But
each of those 'improvements' was always intended to make MY car a better daily driver proposition.
Regarding the red line and tuning issues, I will revisit this with the boys today, as suggested by DB above.
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Mick058
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 08:57 AM |
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Cheers Steve.
How much quieter is it?
Sorry, what does 'TB' stand for.
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 09:06 AM |
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HEAPS
Throttle body
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Judsons4eva
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 09:22 AM |
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Steve
What RWHP did the carby version do?
Hope to get my 2.0L 914 engine (with EFI) on a dyno soon - trying to establish what is good power for as you say a reliable daily driver.
Ken
550 Porsche Spyder
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 09:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
that combo produces 85hp on kadrons.
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VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 09:54 AM |
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Don't loose sight of the fact that the runners are un-modified factory ones off a 1600. If we had come up with a complete custom intake the results
may be different.
But bet your bottom dollar these factors won't be taken into account when the inevitable 'rubbishing' is taking place.
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35MPG on 101.3kPa
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:04 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
The redline on the spec sheet was 5500, so reducing that by 300RPM is no biggy.
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Steve peak power for that combo is produced at 5500rpm with REDLINE at 6200rpm......so I suggest you reset your computer because YES it is a
"biggy"
Setting it at 5200 means your motor will NEVER reach peak power, and when you change gears (at 5200) the rev drop will then take you to below where
the cam is efficient...............not very sensible for a daily driver.
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Mick058
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:17 AM |
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ha, the bliss of forums.
If you accomplished what you wanted, stuff em - on the other hand, if you haven't, takes some guts to admit it.
Thanks for sharing the info, i've watched it only the last few days and have enjoyed the read
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:33 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
and when you change gears (at 5200) the rev drop will then take you to below where the cam is efficient...............not very sensible for a daily
driver.
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Cam comes on about 2200 according to the building, and that is what I have experienced prior to the twin plugs.
The difference in revs between changing at 5000 or 5500 is:
272 for 1st to 2nd
306 for 2nd to 3rd
326 for 3rd to 4th
The revs at the next gear for a 5000 gear change is:
2724
3058
3253
all after the cam has come-on.
IT IS NO BIGGY!!
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:35 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Steve peak power for that combo is produced at 5500rpm with REDLINE at 6200rpm.....
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What combo?
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76bug
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 11:06 AM |
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56astro are u running pobjoy's 356C cam ???
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 11:28 AM |
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37/68
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vw54
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 11:34 AM |
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Steve
I bet it going to drive quite nice not lumpy or noisy at all very similar
you should have come for a run at Valla
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 12:01 PM |
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Dave,
Yes, nice and quiet,
and smooth,
and fuel efficient,
and easy to start,
and not have to ride the accelerator on cold mornings,
and ..... ahh, you get the picture - speaking to the converted eh.
Valla would have been a bit depressing this year, seeing as how long it has taken to get the dub back on the road. I didn't expect it to take this
long, you did a great job getting yours together in the time you did.
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35MPG on 101.3kPa
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 12:49 PM |
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Knowing how longer runners on my engine
moved the power and torque figures to a lower rpm,
I would say that the difference between yours now
and the Kadron manifolds before,
would do just as you say.(about 300rpm earlier)
Regarding power figures, I would not be concerned with the actual number.
The fact that it is occuring at that particular rpm is the key to it all.
Dynos can tell different power figures,
but the rpm where it occurs means there is not anything wrong.
(being how close it is to the claimed/advertised rpm for that long block).
Being a little lower in the rpm means, yes, it may be slightly lower in power,
but may be easilly 20ftlbs higher in torque at the lower rpm.
Exactly what you are after.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 01:17 PM |
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Thanks Dave,
About the dyno, the machine is a Dyno Dynamics one, but an earlier type I think. I asked about shoot-out mode and they said it didn't have it, so not
sure if the number needs to be corrected.
I was hesitant about quoting the HP figures for this very reason. But in the end I decided that being open was probably better than being
secretive.
Your last paragraph is spot-on.
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