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 sander288
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 01:50 PM |
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personally I love what you've done, been looking at something like this for ages, just never had the money..
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sander288
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 01:55 PM |
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found this UK kit, just costs alot.. that said all the R&D is done
http://www.volksworld.com/news/latest/149309/vw-fuel-injection-kit.html
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 01:59 PM |
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Thanks Sander
(Coffs eh? I start work in Coffs from 24th Sept)
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35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 05:43 PM |
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Hope this link works ..................
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35MPG on 101.3kPa
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 08:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
and when you change gears (at 5200) the rev drop will then take you to below where the cam is efficient...............not very sensible for a daily
driver.
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Cam comes on about 2200 according to the building, and that is what I have experienced prior to the twin plugs.
The difference in revs between changing at 5000 or 5500 is:
272 for 1st to 2nd
306 for 2nd to 3rd
326 for 3rd to 4th
The revs at the next gear for a 5000 gear change is:
2724
3058
3253
all after the cam has come-on.
IT IS NO BIGGY!!
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Steve, when you say "redline is set" I'm assuming you mean the rev limit/cut off of the computer? If so I think you are missing my
point.................your redline is set 1000rpm below the specs of the motor......so you should be showing the difference between 5200 and 6200 on
your gear calculator (rev drop) not from 5500 to 5000.
Also the 37/68 cam "comes on" at 3500rpm not 2200rpm (as per builders specs), so with EVERY one of your gear changes you are 300 to 800rpm below
where it actually starts to work effectively.
The 2200rpm refers to the "crash point" of the cam, which is the lowest point where it will accept "full throttle" on an engine dyno test.
Glad you're happy and the car is back on the road, but you are not matching your fuel delivery system with your engine specs.
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 09:07 PM |
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It never went to 6200, even after the bigger fuel line was put in.
And 99% of the gear changes were no where near that anyway.
Stock beetle gearing puts the 1st-2nd gear change below 3500, so if what you're saying is correct, the cam is not 100% suited to the stock
gearing.
Again, what combo??
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56astro
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 09:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Steve peak power for that combo is produced at 5500rpm with REDLINE at 6200rpm.....
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What combo?
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Well, what combo??
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:12 PM |
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base pobjoy 1916 with twin plugs...........37/68 cam, standard 040 heads, 94mm PB, balanced standard crank blah blah...............the same motor that
he built for you years ago, unless you've changed it.
Every other base has no probs running to 6200rpm.
Steve, I just want you to get the best out of your motor but it seems there is really no point me trying to give you advice.......good luck with
it.
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:19 PM |
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i'm sure you know i'm not being critical or difficult Steve............i admire the install and someone chasing exactly what they are after for
THEIR car be it the easiest, cheapest, best blah.......that's certainly what i did too.
there are plenty of other factors that might be retarding the dyno figure........maybe it's the dyno itself as stated, there is plenty of gain from
different exhaust styles/sizes what maybe 10HP!........hell even the muffler might be holding it back by a few.........who knows maybe the engine is
wanting a bigger system now. some more specs on the engine would help to see wether it's a good figure or not.........BUT
..that's not the issue, i'm very interested to see how quiet it is, the difference in fuel economy and general drivability of it........can't wait
to hear what YOU find, after all you will be the only one able to let us know the differences.
well done!!
happy with the way the boys went about it down there?
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Judsons4eva
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| posted on September 4th, 2008 at 10:55 PM |
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I am an infrequent poster on this forum but I do look at it every week or so, the tech threads being the most interesting to me. I have been in the
professional engine R&D business for over 30 years. However in many cases practical/hands on experience leaves the the theory for dead.
What amazes me is that most the tech threads ends up in a pissing contest.
Steve I admire what you have achieved, having done my own EFI in the back shed it is a real sense of achievement getting it all together after
understanding in a hands on way - pulse width, TPS, TB, trigger wheels, etc, etc and then firing up the beast!
Don't take the various comments as criticism - just more constructive comments.
Keep on tweaking and good job.
Ken
550 Porsche Spyder
56 Oval mit Judson
96 Porsche 993 C2
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Mick058
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 08:09 AM |
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Well said Ken - and steve, really well done, i think its a tops effort.
Im not trying to be difficult but my base pobjoy with twin plugs revs to 6200rpm with no problems, and it stops to push after 5500rpm. My exhaust
set-up is one of classic veedubs stainless steel numbers.
Hope this helps.
Cheers Mick.
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56astro
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 08:24 AM |
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Craig,
the 'combo' you speak of had twin kadrons, correct?
If so, you may not have realised yet BUT THEY HAVE GONE! The intake system is completely different, so it is a different 'combo'. With other changes
more than 6200 is possible, but that would also be a different 'combo'. 
Ken, you're right.
I'm listening to the constructive stuff, sometimes even quoting it.
What is frustrating is when some people can't get their head around the fact that what works for some, don't work for everyone.
This engine/EFI conversion has ticked all the boxes for MY NEEDS. The previous set-up didn't, but it wasn't a bad set-up by any means.
I concede that there are COMPROMISES, but what you miss out on the ferris wheel you pick up on the merry-go-round (so to speak). As DB said above,
torque down low has probably increased, where it counts. Even the intake system on my family Dunnydore is a compromise. If I wanted to take it to the
track every month I'd probably put ITBs on it, but why would I want to when it's a daily driver.
As I've said before, there are most likely inefficiencies in the intake system (the runner ends came off a 1600). But this system fulfils other
needs/functions/intentions blah blah blah of MINE. Not anyone else's. I determined it would be easier to use them and join where they finish rather
than have someone design and make completely new ones. I'm not stopping or discouraging anyone else from doing it though.
So I'm not sure why people are so intent on 'rubbishing' this, or defending the old carbed engine.
If you have a similar engine and want more peak HP (but maybe less torque down where it counts for a daily driver) don't do what I did. Put quad TBs
on it and put up with the noise and drone for over 2 hours a day.
Not me.
Daimo,
The boys down there were extremely helpful. While Brendan tuned, Graeme explained what he was doing with timing and fuel etc.
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35MPG on 101.3kPa
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StenGuns
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 08:36 AM |
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Hats off to you mate.. Even though I didn't get my hands dirty on the EFI for my vehicle (I am TTT deficient - Time, Tools, Talent) I fully
understand the tweaking, tinkering and decision making you go through to get WHAT YOU WANT.. My 1916 is going to deliver hopefully, a beautiful
balanced, torquey output. The last piece in the jigsaw was the exhaust setup and that will be finalised next week. Westside fabricate a sweet looking
twin setup that is going to still give me the twin pipe "stock" look.
All the best.. Rob
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56astro
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 08:41 AM |
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Thanks Rob.
Your engine bay looks so .............. plain (in a nice way).
Looking forward to seeing it full of wiring and hoses 
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StenGuns
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 08:45 AM |
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You won't be seeing any of those mate.. The coil (Golf 4) is tucked behind the shroud and the leads are all from the back.. No dizzy (trigger wheel
like yours).. The only hose will be a bradied line from the breather on the neck down through the tinware..
Its not PLAIN! I'm a minimalist!!
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
Thanks Rob.
Your engine bay looks so .............. plain (in a nice way).
Looking forward to seeing it full of wiring and hoses
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Mick058
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 09:06 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 56astro
It never went to 6200, even after the bigger fuel line was put in.
And 99% of the gear changes were no where near that anyway.
Stock beetle gearing puts the 1st-2nd gear change below 3500, so if what you're saying is correct, the cam is not 100% suited to the stock
gearing.
Again, what combo??
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Hey Steve, My reply was in regards to this...i assume 'it never' referred to the old combo you had, that is carbies etc...
My concern was that maybe something was off to cause the lower rpm, which may be effecting your current engine combo. Maybe its just a high end thing,
in which its of no big deal to you as your after a torque increase, but then it could still effect lower end. iunno, im a novice - just letting you
know that on carbies mine hits 6200 no problems.
I'll leave it at that, i wont mention RPM anymore!! 
Look forward to seeing it and especially hearing it, or not hearing it should i say.
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56astro
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 10:49 AM |
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Nah Mick, it's all sweet.
Your exhaust looks like a merged or semi-merged one (nice by the way). You're also running 44 IDFs aren't you?
Mine is a (un)merged thunderbird(?) so there would be restriction and losses there.
The quietness I referred to is from within the car, no more annoying induction noise.
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56astro
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 10:50 AM |
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Rob
I realised after I posted that you already had yours running. So your engine bay is really neat, well done
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Mick058
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 10:59 AM |
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yeh the webers are loud! I had them before the engine otherwise i would of used the kadrons, as they are better on the base.
i'd liked to go to the steriods in a couple of years and EFI that - shame Stan never did much with the EFI...o well time will tell.
Thanks for your build, will make a good reference point.
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westi
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what the
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 07:36 PM |
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sounds good.
how long before your fist cruz.or have you been there done that already.
how did you go with the tb ,did it work out ok or did it get the arse.
hopefully all is well and we will see some more photage of it in action soon.
down sharon.
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56astro
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| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 10:41 PM |
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Hey Brad,
Pick it up Monday and take it to the engineer - NRMA (ctp) - RTA.
Not sure with the cold start stuff, they were supposed to be doing that today. They said they'd like it back in a month or so to go over the maps.
I have put together a compilation of the footage but some of the sections come out as stills. I'll work on it, get some more, and post it up.
Thanks for your help and assistance. Without people such as yourself this thing would never have gotten off the ground (some people wished it had
never gotten off the ground :smirk
As we say in the job, see ya at the big one!
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35MPG on 101.3kPa
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1303Steve
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| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 02:35 PM |
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Hi
Bet you cant wait to drive it. I remember when I first went from IDAs to EFI I couldn't believe how good the car was to drive, you put your foot down
at any time and know exactly how the car would react.
Steve
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Ampdub
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| posted on September 18th, 2008 at 12:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by StenGuns
Hats off to you mate.. Even though I didn't get my hands dirty on the EFI for my vehicle (I am TTT deficient - Time, Tools, Talent) I fully
understand the tweaking, tinkering and decision making you go through to get WHAT YOU WANT.. My 1916 is going to deliver hopefully, a beautiful
balanced, torquey output. The last piece in the jigsaw was the exhaust setup and that will be finalised next week. Westside fabricate a sweet looking
twin setup that is going to still give me the twin pipe "stock" look.
All the best.. Rob
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what type of end castings are you using there, CB or self made? looking at going this route. what is the approximate cost of these?
thanks
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56astro
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| posted on September 18th, 2008 at 08:16 AM |
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Somewhere above, amongst the 170-odd posts, you should find the answer to that one !
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westi
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what the
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| posted on September 21st, 2008 at 06:03 PM |
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how was the first drive.were is the vid's or pic's
com on mate you have to share.
down sharon.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 12:32 PM |
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As a guide for others who wish to do this, how much did it cost you to do the whole conversion ?
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56astro
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| posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 01:35 PM |
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Still fishing Craig??
Anyone wanting to do this should price all the components necessary for THAT PARTICULAR system. Then factor in labour costs for all the work you
can't do yourself (in my case that was a lot).
Cheapest way I imagine would be to wack on a set of quad TBs.
Try a different bait Craig!
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pete wood
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| posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 03:42 PM |
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you'd be surprise how expensive a quad throttle body setup is. I got a 'cheap' quote for an entry level setup that roughly added up to $4k before
fitting or tuning. So I don't if I'd say I could "wack" on quads as the cheapest way.
Astro, respectfully, it would be great to know the details of what you've spent (itemised) so others can pick your brains a bit. I see what you're
aiming for and for a street car it's a good aim. You are right about hidden costs though.
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56astro
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| posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 04:30 PM |
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Pete,
the nay-sayers would just laugh at the costs, so why give them the satisfaction. I learnt a lesson very recently, quite often it is better to be
secretive, unfortunately.
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 06:13 PM |
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driving yet Steve?...........yep no way around it, EFI ain't cheap, but has wonderful benefit's for the investment, i can't wait to do mine too.
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