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Author: Subject:  LATEST EFI PROJECT
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posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 07:36 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by 56astro
Pete,

the nay-sayers would just laugh at the costs, so why give them the satisfaction. I learnt a lesson very recently, quite often it is better to be secretive, unfortunately.


I'd be interested to know if you trusted me enough to pm me with the details. I'm not a nay-sayer, just an interested observer.




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posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 09:26 PM



Quote:
[
The quietness I referred to is from within the car, no more annoying induction noise.
Couldn't agree more!!!! I'm using 48mm T/Bodies on mine and have had it running for 9 months now and it's faultless-starts instantly hot or cold,no flatspots at any throttle position,pulls like a train up to the 6200rpm rev limiter,but it's got the annoying noise at all times from the small air filters.When I get some time,I am going to build a single centre mount air filter set up with connections to the T/B's.I have a filter pad from a V6 Hyundi AWD which is a good size to build something around.
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posted on September 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by 56astro
Still fishing Craig??

Try a different bait Craig!


Nope not fishing Steve, it is actually a genuine question.

If you dont want to answer thats ok.




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posted on September 24th, 2008 at 06:52 PM



The efi set up on my brother's Type 3 is worth more than the value of most people's cars on this forum.

By the time you add the cost of the manifold fabrication, cost of the ECU,coil packs and CDI controller box plus a myriad of other sensors plus the cost to have it fitted and tuned...... plus what Troy,my Dad and myself did in fabbing stuff up and fitting/removing and trying again.......

Let's say over $8k easy..... ouch!




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posted on September 25th, 2008 at 11:12 AM



definitely the cheapest EFI you can get comes attached to a watercooled jap motor. the problem on an aircooled motor is that you have to pay for the R&D as well as the hardware.



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posted on September 25th, 2008 at 12:58 PM



This would be the cheap and easy way to EFI;
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=281

It's a crude EFI system, with not many features. John ran it in his Max FX Buggy which was at the dyno day - John Barrett - Blue 2003 Manx FX 2230cc - 84.4hp.

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/albums/album354/s_IMG_3394.jpg




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posted on September 25th, 2008 at 03:51 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by pete wood
definitely the cheapest EFI you can get comes attached to a watercooled jap motor. the problem on an aircooled motor is that you have to pay for the R&D as well as the hardware.


Hi Pete

You are so right.

I can get Haltech ECUs at a reasonable price so I started pricing a setup from my sons bug, I stopped counting at 3K add another 1K or so for other things I may have forgotten, oh; and then you need to build a motor as well, that could be between 2 to 20K.

I reckon a Liberty motor like Buggy Brad is doing would be the go.

Steve
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posted on September 25th, 2008 at 04:14 PM



This may be a little off the topic and sorry if I am hijacking the thread but I am looking at putting EFI on our ghia. I don't want to run the fuel return line on the outside of the car and you can't legally run it through the interior. This leaves putting it in the tunnel.

Does this create any fouling problems with the other bits in the tunnel and do you need to open it up all the way along the tunnel to weld in mounts to run the line through? How was it done from the factory even?

Thanks

Yogie
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posted on September 25th, 2008 at 04:16 PM



Yogie, do some searches on return lines in the non-vw conversions sub-forum. There is plenty of discussion in there.



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posted on September 26th, 2008 at 04:21 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Baja Wes
Yogie, do some searches on return lines in the non-vw conversions sub-forum. There is plenty of discussion in there.


Thanks Wes.
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posted on September 30th, 2008 at 07:53 AM



My EFI cost me about $1000, BMW motorcycle quad throttle bodies, Gotech ECU, fuel pump, sensors, ram tubes and a bit of labour.

Works a treat.

Ken




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posted on September 30th, 2008 at 09:11 AM



how much did you spend on tuning Ken?

See, with respect, I'd be surprised if we get anywhere near the most out of homebrewed EFIed aircooled motors. Let me elaborate if you will.

To start with we are way behind the eight ball in terms of inlet manifolds and such. All engine manufacturers have computer modelling to get the basics done and then spend 1000s of hours on flow benches, dynos and the like to get to a design which they feel is usable and easily reproducable. They also have the advantage of working with an engine (watercooled) that warms up and cools down more evenly making everything a little easier. Most of ECUs used on homebrewed aircoolers are not the closed loop style found on production cars. This is where the real gains are to be found in the long run. An ECU that learns from it's enviroment and loads and CUSTOM programs as it goes. We think we've done well if the motor pulls across the rev range and has no flat spots. Think again, a well tuned carburetter engine can do this, an EFIed motor should be able to do a lot more. There are endless options for tuning to get the motor to not only produce top HP, but also the most torque available at any given RPM range. And that's before we start talking about engine spec. I'm quite impressed by Astros approach because I think he's clear about his goals. Most people say two conflicting things, "I want bulk HP, but it has to be completely streetable". Sorry but you can't have both. Even with EFI you need to be very clear about what you want and I suspect a lot of us are looking for a compromise that doesn't exist. Sure, we'd all love to have that enormous top end, but if we drive a street car then we just don't need it 99% of the time. If we tune the ECU and the inlet for this top end, then we compromise the spec of the rest of the engine (usually a lot more mild) and wonder why it doesn't have the big top end or the fat torque. I reckon if you are going to homebrew your system you need to be prepared to make improvements to the inlet and spend regular time on the dyno long term. Otherwise, maybe it might be better to stick to carbs.

Either that or put a jap EFI motor (with factory ECU) in your dub. ;)




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posted on September 30th, 2008 at 09:38 AM



Pete

I have been in engine research for over 30 years including working with the big 3 in the US. I tuned mine on the road using a wideband O2 sensor and the ECU has a logging function. It is also closed loop control. I can adjust the warm up maps and also accl enrichment rate etc. My car starts first crank every time, doesn't miss a beat and pulls well across the entire rev range.

I don't think I have any comprises and it works far better than any carbi set up. I am using a ITB's with tuned length ram tubes. so manifolding is no real issue. I chose 36mm throttle bodies to give me low down tractibility and throttle response. Most people get carried away with TB's that are way to big.


So I am very happy with my $1000. No comprises.

Ken




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posted on September 30th, 2008 at 03:01 PM



I tend to think you might be the exception here though ken.



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posted on September 30th, 2008 at 04:08 PM



i have set aftermarket EFI on a aircooled vw(mild 1776) ITB's and a microtech LT10s results were great far better than my crappy weber DCN's, 70rwhp. i spent about 2K could have done it cheaper. Pete probably beter if you stick with your subaru donk:smirk:
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posted on March 17th, 2009 at 01:06 PM



ASTRO WHERE ARE YOU?
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posted on December 14th, 2009 at 02:15 PM



Good luck tuning.
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posted on September 30th, 2018 at 05:14 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by hellbugged
ASTRO WHERE ARE YOU?


Here I am Damo.

Daughter is about to get her P's so I am trying to get the dub back on the road. She's mad keen to have the beetle as her car.

I have seen Brian Cross and organised to get the rear valance modified so that it's removable. The engine won't go in from underneath with all the EFI and other stuff attached.




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posted on September 30th, 2018 at 07:19 PM



Wow, looking forward to seeing it on the road again.



From your ole' mate Jeff
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posted on October 2nd, 2018 at 10:40 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by beetleboyjeff
Wow, looking forward to seeing it on the road again.


Me too mate.
It's been waaaaay too long since I was driving it to work in PMc.




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posted on October 8th, 2018 at 05:51 AM



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