| [ Total Views: 2839 | Total Replies: 10 | Thread Id: 5899 ] |
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 Jake
Learner Dubber
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| posted on May 2nd, 2003 at 08:54 PM |
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Paint....
Thought i'd jump in with the first post in this category and ask.... What are the different types of paint to use and what are the
advantages/disadvantages of them? I know it's a big question so any websites that answer this well be fine. Thanks all.
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moonlite6t6beetle
A.k.a.: Corey Marriott
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| posted on May 2nd, 2003 at 09:00 PM |
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Paint answer
I have to say your question is a bit blurry... do you mean pearl and metallic.... or acrillic and twopack???
Moonlite... 54 and 66 beetle
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penguin
A.k.a.: Chris
Bishop of Volkswagenism
ackkkkkk thhhhhpt!
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| posted on May 2nd, 2003 at 09:25 PM |
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Pan
Well,
I guess if you start at the very beginning, thats where it all beg.......... (quick, someone stop the bloody music..mad:..).
I have a sandblasted pan sitting in my garage tonight that is about to (well, tomorrow morning and Sunday anyway) be wiped down, and coated with POR15
as its paint type. This will hopefully ensure that I do not have a rust problem at any time in the foreseeable future (barring nuclear war of
course).
After that, well, thats a story for another time :bounce
Cheers
penguin:beer:beer:beer:
[Edited on 2-5-2003 by penguin]
'Ah, whatever................'
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
23 Windows of Awesome
DAS Resto Haus
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| posted on May 2nd, 2003 at 10:17 PM |
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I am far from an expert on this subject, but have done a bit of body and paint work. Basically there is enamel, acrylic, and two pack (not to mention
more which others will hopefully add).
Acrylic -
PROS: easy to spray (doesn't run easily), quick to dry, relatively cheap, easy to mix (two parts)
CONS: unless you are experienced, often have to colour sand to get a good quality shine
Enamel -
PROS: Hard wearing, very glossy off the gun, easy to mix (two parts)
CONS: runs easier, takes a lot longer to dry
Two pack -
PROS: Relatively hard wearing, glossy off the gun (no need for colour sanding),
CONS: best results when it is baked, expensive (around $80/L for colour), can be hard to get the mix spot on (three parts - paint, hardener and
reducer).
This is just a brief info from my experience, please add more or suggest changes as I am not in the trade!
cheers
Alan
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on May 3rd, 2003 at 02:18 AM |
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Alan has got the basics there.
If you are doing at home acrylic is your only choice.
Two pack must be sprayed in a booth, and air fed respirator must be used (or you may get cancer of the nuts) It has isocyanates that attack body
cells. The booth is to provide an almost dust free environment and protect the ouside world, then enable the baking to be done afterwards.
We did a beetle at work recently and it cost the owner $3000. The paint, equipment and good painters don't come cheap.
Your only option at saving is to do some of the body prep yourself.:bounce
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70AutoStik
Insano Dub Head
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| posted on May 3rd, 2003 at 08:07 PM |
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$3,000 for a professional two-pack job? That's a pretty good price. I have a friend who's a professional painter and his boss was once my
pastor, so I won't need your services, but that's pretty reasonable.
BTW - you forgot to mention that a good two-pack (after curing) is highly resistant to stones and rust. Oh, and after seeing my friend's work,
compared to some amatuer stuff, I wouldn't try to spray a two-pack myself even if it wasn't lethal.
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pyr0
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flame-on
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| posted on May 3rd, 2003 at 08:26 PM |
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personally id go for arylic even tho its more work the finished product is worth it, its also cheap :bounce |
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Seriously_Individual
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| posted on May 4th, 2003 at 12:13 AM |
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acrillyc/enamel
i know one cant go over the other...
can enamel go over acryllic? or is it the other way around?
©ya L8®
©h®i§
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
Custom Title Time!
Minister of Volkswagenism
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| posted on May 4th, 2003 at 12:27 AM |
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Why can't you spray Enamel in the back yard?
Why is acrylic the only choice?
What is colour sanding? I haven't heard of that before.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
Super Administrator
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| posted on May 4th, 2003 at 01:24 AM |
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Color sanding is the process of using finer and finer grades of paper and lubricant to bring up a paint job in terms of reflectivity (gloss), reduce
or eliminate swirling, and mostly to ensure that there's no orange peel.
And before you ask:
swirling - tiny scratches in the paintwork. If you look at most car's surfaces under harsh light, you'll see concentric swirls. This is bad,
and is a sign of poor washing practices or the use of automatic car washes that touch the surface. See my detailing guide for more details on how to
reduce the chances of swirling.
orange peel - when you apply the paint to a surface, if you go overboard or sputter or don't prep the surface properly, incorrect air/paint mix,
the moon is waning gibbeous or the chicken you sacrificed didn't sate the Paint God's desires, you end up with orange peel. It describes the
surface texture - it looks like the surface of an orange, writ large. Most cars have it to a certain extent - most OEM paint jobs are cheap and very
quick. Color sanding reduces the ridges and evens out the paint job, allowing a much smoother and nicer end result.
If you ever see a concourse paint job, you'll never ever see orange peel. It's as smooth as a baby's bum.
From this:
to this:
Check this out:
http://www.vintagebus.com/howto/colorsand/
Andrew
[Edited on 3-5-2003 by vanderaj]
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on May 4th, 2003 at 02:08 AM |
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Thanks for that Andrew.
...and what the story with Enamel?
Can it be backyard sprayed. Is it too difficult or somthing else?
If I was going to respray the Dog-O-War (Gloss) and put clear coat layers over, what should / would I use?
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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crewcabconnection
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on May 4th, 2003 at 10:48 AM |
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Bus Paint Options
Right, read all that...
I'm at the point where I've stipped the bus paint using good old fashioned hard yakka and 3M papers. Top layer was some old primer, under
that was some budgie blue top coat, unde that some white chalky stuff, probably high fill (I'm told), then under that the original Dove Blue and
the factory primer.
The latter two seem to be the best quality. So I've rubbed it back to remove all but the metal and in some cases some of the original primer is
left here and there, so it's not all bare-metal.
The hassle is that every bugger that walks by has a different opinion...what is it with people...the guy I trust most, who is a panel guru recommended
that getting down to the base metal and or primer is the way to go and then cover it in red-brown to prevent the metal going off and it would then be
ready for primer.
So quite happy with it all so far.
Now the day will come when I want it painting. As I don't want to re-paint it in a few years, and have spent 2 years getting to this point, I
don't want it stuffed up, and so far I hear lots of bad stories about painters blaming the preparation and preparation blaming the painter.
Good places go bad, and it's all subjective. As I want a high gloss finish in two tone paint, black top and green bottom, I don't want to be
arguing the toss when it's too late.
So what the hell am I asking?
-What kind of paint will give me the best result for gloss finish on a split panel van - given the big flanks.
-What questions and tips to vet painters on and avoid bullsh-tters.
-How to spot a bullsh-tter or someone whos going to cut corners, to make more money.
-Common rip-off techniques and arguments not to have done a decent job.
-Anyone recommend a painter, whom they've been happy with their work?
-What's a fair price for a quality job - high end and low end...like I expect it to cost more than 3k.
-How does adding a top coat of laquer go in the fullness of time - good or bad idea?
-And can anyone recommend someone to 'chrome' bumpers rather than re-painting the originals.
I don't want to screw people on price, nor get ripped off, just want a good job ant a fair price in a fair timeframe.
Sydney area please.
Loves a lolcat
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helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
Super Administrator
Mad fabricator, paint and body
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| posted on May 5th, 2003 at 06:31 PM |
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To Bronze and crewcabconnection
You can spray enamel in the back yard, but the variables cannot be controlled very easily. Temperature, dust and humidity play a factor in the final
finish. This can be controlled in an oven booth.
Enamal should not generally be put on top of acrylic. Cheap enamel especially plays up on cheap acrylic. More expensive paints are more stable.
Acrylic is much more flexible in that it can be painted in temps between 16 and 40 degrees. It dries quick, so dust does not get a chance to sink in
to the paint. It is easy to colour sand also and buff to a great shine.
I am originally a panel beater by trade, and I can do acrylic resprays to show standard, but two pac is just above my league. I always get a pro
painter to finish off projects I am doing if they are two pac.
So what the hell am I asking?
-What kind of paint will give me the best result for gloss finish on a split panel van - given the big flanks.
Either can give the same gloss finish. Most places wont do it in acrylic. Acrylic is much more labour intensive. Imagine paying for 300 hours of paint
prep, painting, colour sanding and polishing time.
-What questions and tips to vet painters on and avoid bullsh-tters.
Ask them if they CAN do it in either finish. At least they will have experience both ways and wont be just doing it one way because that's how
they do it.
-How to spot a bullsh-tter or someone whos going to cut corners, to make more money.
Again ask them if you can come in at least twice a week and look at it and take photo' etc. Ask them if they are prepared to keep a log book of
hours spent. They can cut corners for two reasons. To make more money or to not lose money.
-Common rip-off techniques and arguments not to have done a decent job.
If they are not prepared to have the car there for a day to assess and quote it, then it makes it hard to understand why they would want a car for
weeks on end to repaint. Offer $50 for the quote and look them in the eye and say "I am serious. Tell me now is this your sort of work or is this
going to end in tears?"
You MUST set the standard, guidlines and your expectations from the start. It may scare some guys away, but they obviously were not prepared or
equipped to take the job on. I will be honest if someone came in and said they want a repaint at our work, I always say. It's not our line, we
are an 'Accident Repair Centre'
The Beetle we did recently was an exception, and I had the right to accept the job on it's merits. (Will post pics too)
-Anyone recommend a painter, whom they've been happy with their work?
Not at the moment, sorry
-What's a fair price for a quality job - high end and low end...like I expect it to cost more than 3k.
I always say allow $4 for a show paint job NOT including repairs or assembly or any parts PAINT only. A Van may have to be considered more.
-How does adding a top coat of laquer go in the fullness of time - good or bad idea?
If it is Metallic it will need a clear coat. Solid colours can be done in Clear Over Base C.O.B, but it means whole panels to be repainted if you get
a chip later. Straight solid colours can be touched up or blended.
I don't want to screw people on price, nor get ripped off, just want a good job ant a fair price in a fair timeframe.
Paint only 4-6 weeks for show job if no other repairs to be done in that time
Sydney area please.
In Melb, but I hope I have helped
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
Custom Title Time!
Minister of Volkswagenism
Posts: 1922
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 posted on May 10th, 2003 at 09:55 PM |
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Wonderful reply.
Thanks very much Peter - a wonderful reply that has cleared quite a few things up. A seperate paint / prep section is a wonderful addition to the
forum I think. So much easier finding / keeping information and valuable advice. I will print these pages and reread them before considering how /
when I am going to repaint. My budget is going to be fairly low so I think the quick drying acryllic will be the order for me.
Thanks again.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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