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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 12:06 PM
Car prices..... discussion
I have been amazed at the prices I have seen asked for some cars recently. Mostly newer stuff, not '55 one owner barn doors with full service
histories.
People get tetchy when this is discussed in any sale forum so I put it here. This isn't just AVD but many ads I have seen.
This was propmted by the insurance docs received last week on my wifes '96 Impreza, dropped 5k in value in a year!
New cars getting as cheap as chips
Janet De Silva, The Sun-Herald, 12/02/07
But they're also losing their value faster, writes JANET DE SILVA.
Housing affordability in Australia may be at its lowest for decades, but at least there's good news about our second most expensive possession, the
car.
Thanks to a host of factors, there has never been a better time to buy a new one. You get a safer, more efficient vehicle than in the past and we are
being spoilt for choice as car makers around the world target the Australian market.
Cheap as chips
To understand just how affordable new cars are at the moment and why sales are booming, one has only to look at the sales history of one of
Australia's most popular small cars, the Holden Barina.
Back in 1990, this four-cylinder hatchback was selling for $13,990, exactly the same price as today. And compared to the 1990 model, the latest Barina
is loaded with extra features such as fuel injection, air-conditioning, front and passenger air bags and automatic locking. What's more, new Barina
owners in 1990 were hit with several thousand dollars in "on road" costs (dealer delivery, stamp duty, registration etc), whereas today's $13,990
is a "driveaway" price.
Holden's marketing director, John Elsworth, says the equivalent of the 1990 Barina price would be about $25,000 in today's dollars.
Elsworth says pricing across the entire small car market is extremely aggressive and there has never been more choice of brands for consumers.
"It's an awesome time for new car buyers," he says. "I've worked in this industry for 16 years and I can't think of a time where the competition
has been more intense."
But small car prices are not the only ones falling in real terms. Affordability figures from the Australian Automotive Intelligence Report show that
it took 41.8 weeks of average weekly earnings to buy a family six-cylinder car in 1995, compared to about 32 weeks in 2006.
Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce spokesman David Russell says falling tariffs, the elimination of the car import quota and a surge in global
car production are all factors behind the increase in affordability across all car sectors.
"Cars are not just more affordable, they are vastly improved in terms of standard of equipment, safety and quality," he says.
Resale values plummet
New cars might be cheap, but they are also depreciating faster. Nick Adamidis, the national sales and marketing manager of car industry research group
Glass's Information Services, says residual values (the agreed resale value of a leased car at the end of the lease period) have plummeted in the
large-car sector, with some models depreciating up to 65 per cent after three years (see table).
Adamidis says last year's fuel price spike, when petrol prices hit $1.45 a litre before dropping back to current levels of about $1.10, caused a
consumer shift away from large cars and a further softening of residual prices in that sector.
"There was an overreaction to the fuel price hike and people moved to small and medium cars," he says.
Australasian Fleet Managers Association chief executive Marja Thompson says car resale values in Australia are likely to continue falling as the
market becomes more global.
"The biggest cost factor for new vehicles is depreciation in the first three years of the car's life, but traditionally residual values in Australia
have been higher than in comparative markets in the US and the UK," she says.
Second-hand value
Looking for a used car? Some of the best bargains are in the home-grown six-cylinder market where, as outlined above, prices for both new and used
cars have plummeted.
Tony Robinson, chief executive of fleet risk management company SurePlan Australia, says recent-model Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores with low
kilometres (between 20,000 and 30,000) offer great value and make an ideal choice for a novated lease, where the vehicle is owned by an employee but
the finance repayments are made by the employer using pre-tax dollars.
"With cars that are between one and two years old and have copped a 45 to 55 per cent depreciation on their original recommended price, the risk and
monthly rental payments are considerably reduced," he says.
Buy or lease?
Paradoxically, falling car resale values mean the cost of leasing a new car is rising. This is because monthly repayments need to be raised to
compensate for faster depreciation.
But leasing is still worthwhile for those able to salary sacrifice and capitalise on tax benefits, Robinson says. "My personal preference is that it
is a good time to buy a car but leasing is still a good option if you can get tax benefits."
Easy finance
Just as it has never been easier to borrow money to buy a house, consumers are flush with choice when it comes to car finance.
Anthony Sexton, a financial analyst from research company Cannex, says credit unions offer some of the best deals, with car loan rates starting around
7.45 per cent for a $25,000 loan to be repaid over five years. This compares to around 11 to 13 per cent among the major banks.
Drive a hard bargain
2000
Make New Residual value Depreciation
price after 3 yrs after 3 yrs
Holden Commodore Acclaim $33,980 $16,600 -51.10%
Ford Falcon Futura $33,341 $15,800 -52.60%
Toyota Avalon Vxi - - -
Mitsubishi Magna LS/Advance $33,190 $15,400 -53.60%
2006
Make New Residual value Depreciation
price after 3 yrs after 3 yrs
Holden Commodore Acclaim $38,570 $15,100 -60.90%
Ford Falcon Futura $38,260 $14,100 -63.10%
Toyota Avalon Vxi $37,990 $13,200 -65.30%
Mitsubishi Magna LS/Advance $37,990 $13,600 -64.20%
* All Prices are Trade/Wholesale
This disclaimer does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my dog: don't quote me on that; don't
quote me on anything; this disclaimer is subject to change without notice; text is slightly enlarged to show detail; resemblance to actual persons,
living or dead, is unintentional and coincidental; dry clean only; do not bend, fold, or mutilate; anchovies or jalapenos added to this disclaimer
upon request; your mileage may vary; no substitutions are allowed; for a limited time only while supplies last; offer void where prohibited; this
disclaimer is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied
blutopless2
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 12:32 PM
yes... supply and demand... fascinating stuff
see.... air and water do mix
1974 1300
1997 MK3 Golf GL
2003 NB Cabrio
2012 Golf VI GTI
2014 Audi A4 Quattro
twoguns
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 12:46 PM
yeah but what they dont tell you is how shitty the new car is made. short cust taken and points of origin.
my borther in law bought a brand new 2006 honda accord, with all the luxuries and inclusions one would expect. funy though, it appears that it has
only one coat of paint. scratches incredibly easily. bird crap eats the paint off in an hour and the car has none of its refinement of my other mates
2001 model. turns out this new luxury 'japanese honda' is in fact made in thailand. makes it more like a hyundai than a honda.
bet same probably goes for the current barina vrs the old.
so many people look at the value their shopping dollar gets... features functions etc, and forget about the quality, finish and build detail. this
allows the supplier to then focus on this as well.
side note. i was in the states a few years back on a manufacturer tour.
we were invovled in a meeting where they were proud to announce that they were able to produce a part that was originally costing them 38c, to only
12c. they were all so proud of themselves to have been able to source this bit, along with others, and then offer a net result that the item would now
be 370$ cheaper to the consumer.
the cosumer on the surface could not see why as it looked identical to the older product, so happily accepting the brand for what it was continued to
support the product. same went for hte reseller.
mate were there a lot of service calls and warranty problems with in that next year. do i also need to mention bad word of mouth and loss of
faith.
i know that my brother in law is not buying another honda on principal let alone based on point of origin.
the other bad point is that this new throw away junk drives down the price of all before until enough realise taht maybe a 3 year old honda is better
quality than a new one... pffft: not that anyone would think that.
[ Edited on 1/3/2007 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...
rose
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 01:37 PM
Ditto. Yes this is true I think Toyota's are also being made in thailand.:cry
And the new Toyoto Corolla that we had for a loan car the other week only had a driver air bag where's the saftey features gone and also had not one
cup holder. This is why they can sell them cheaper.
Lots of shortcuts being made. This has been going on ever since they started to import hyundai into Australia throw away cars.
Give me a new bmw or vw any day at least they arn't being made in thailand.
The old saying goes you get what you pay for.
Quote:
Originally
posted by twoguns
yeah but what they dont tell you is how shitty the new car is made. short cust taken and points of origin.
my borther in law bought a brand new 2006 honda accord, with all the luxuries and inclusions one would expect. funy though, it appears that it has
only one coat of paint. scratches incredibly easily. bird crap eats the paint off in an hour and the car has none of its refinement of my other mates
2001 model. turns out this new luxury 'japanese honda' is in fact made in thailand. makes it more like a hyundai than a honda.
bet same probably goes for the current barina vrs the old.
so many people look at the value their shopping dollar gets... features functions etc, and forget about the quality, finish and build detail. this
allows the supplier to then focus on this as well.
side note. i was in the states a few years back on a manufacturer tour.
we were invovled in a meeting where they were proud to announce that they were able to produce a part that was originally costing them 38c, to only
12c. they were all so proud of themselves to have been able to source this bit, along with others, and then offer a net result that the item would now
be 370$ cheaper to the consumer.
the cosumer on the surface could not see why as it looked identical to the older product, so happily accepting the brand for what it was continued to
support the product. same went for hte reseller.
mate were there a lot of service calls and warranty problems with in that next year. do i also need to mention bad word of mouth and loss of
faith.
i know that my brother in law is not buying another honda on principal let alone based on point of origin.
the other bad point is that this new throw away junk drives down the price of all before until enough realise taht maybe a 3 year old honda is better
quality than a new one... pffft: not that anyone would think that.
[ Edited on 1-3-2007 by rose ]
[img][/img]
scooter
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 02:19 PM
As with Houses etc etc etc A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it !!!
Type3Sicko
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 02:43 PM
Thanks for the info...does anyone have VW sales prices for '55 to '75 and what they were being sold for then? Because I think you will be pleasantly
(or not) surprised at the depreciation and appreciation figures on various models. Everything is drastically overpriced, whether it's real eatate,
auto, antiques, fried chicken,petrol, milk... whatever! barr a few select VW models ...then again, one persons trash is anothers'...
How many is enough?
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 03:47 PM
Given planned obselescence new cars would want to be cheap-- they are virtualy unrepairable so you are already faced with the "throw away" prospect
anyway--like it or not , so supprised at farkin radical depreciation ?--hardly.
And PULEASE no more horseshit about how much better they are being made compared to back in the day, manufacturers have had 100 years practice and the
base technology aint changed a bit-niether has the average MPG figure and as for the energy consumption per constructed unit- HA ---don't talk to me
about global warming-- the real vandals are easy to identify.
We have yet to be pitched here with what I personaly consider to be the cheekiest" benefit " I have yet come across in a sales pitch , it runs
roughly thus---"We (the manufacturer) will collect this car--NO MATTER WHERE IT IS --- and RECYCLE IT at absolutely NO COST TO YOU --this little
gem is --so I believe--being pitched in with some warrantys hey ho and so it go.
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRggghhh.
I'll stick with my 45 year old beetle 25 mpg --and hey environmentalists--AAAAAARRGGGGG FAAAAAAAAAAAARK,
Whats the use.
:beer
Al.
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 03:51 PM
rose:
"Give me a new bmw or vw any day at least they arn't being made in thailand."
Dunno about the VW's, but both the 3 and 7 series BMWs we get here are made ..you guessed it, in Thailand.
:puke
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1500S
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 04:56 PM
>Thanks for the info...does anyone have VW sales prices for '55 to '75 and what they were being sold for then? <
In those mid 60s, a Type 3 was around 1099 pounds. For the younger ones that's $2198 plus on road costs. Wages for a tradesman in a metal trade in
those days was around $40 per week!
Whether we like it or not, when we look back they weren't really "the good old days" compared to the last 10 years. We like our VWs no matter
which body design but when we compare them with the lumps of modern day throw away bits of junk, there is no comparison.
There weren't many VWs....bugs, type 3 or kombis........ which could come up near the lasting in the engine department of the little rice burners.
Bugs were clapped out at near the 100,000 miles and the type 3s were lucky to get past the 35,000 miles before the valves were burnt out or, in the
case of any of those 40 hp and 1500 engines, the rocker studs fell out with regular monotony.
OZ built VWs were a bit like Fords and Holdens of the day. On a still night, you could hear them quietly rusting away through poor painting. Also,
we could see what the German built ones looked like and only dream about the extra trim. I am only talking about the Type 3 range here and comparing
the local 1500S with the German one.
Most cars these days are far better value for money than ever before both in interior comforts and engine/body lasting. That Type 3 notch in 1965
would have been around 1 years salary. A Commodore base model is around 2/3 of a year (ONLY A GUESS AT SOME SALARIES!) and if you compare that or any
other gas guzzler or rice burner there is no comparison................... by the way, on a good run a Commodore is near or just as fuel efficient as
a Type 3 1500 or 1600!!
Any other non-biased thoughts?
DH
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by 1500S
OZ built VWs were a bit like Fords and Holdens of the day. On a still night, you could hear them quietly rusting away through poor painting. Also,
we could see what the German built ones looked like and only dream about the extra trim. I am only talking about the Type 3 range here and comparing
the local 1500S with the German one.
DH
hehe, too true. my grandfather and his best friend bought brand new beetles around the same time, he got one of the last ovals and his mate one of the
first big windows. the oval was a gem of a car, the later model (aus built) was back at the dealership within a couple of months because of rust under
the back window, a problem that re-occured continuously throughout its life.
Reimagined/Recycled/Upcycled Cool
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 08:13 PM
lets face it, car parts are built with contracts awarded to the lowest bidder and with the way things are these days, the last thing the car companies
want is for their cars to live forever. By making cars unreliable after 5 years they win in two ways - a)people pay through the arse for parts as cars
are no longer made easy enough for joe nobody to fix it himself and b) it will lead people to buy the newer models, thus they make money faster and
easier. Old cars were made to last well before society became heavily materialistic and fascinated with keeping up with the joneses. By the way if i
ever meet this joneses family, theyve got a lot of explaining to do to me
phatratpat
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 09:17 PM
do you think in 30 yrs time cars of today will be classics ?
I DONT! {throws money at the vw}.....
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 09:21 PM
>do you think in 30 yrs time cars of today will be classics <
The thought of a Hyundai Excel being a classic is just too much. I think I'll have another drink to try and erase the thought!
DH
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 10:05 PM
I reckon there may be a couple of classics in a few years time. Ferrari is a good bet. Porsches... no.... Veyron.. yes. But there's not much chance
of any regular laymans car becoming collectable. They are worth nothing after 10 years, they'll be scrapped before 30 years comes around.
I disagree with comments about Hyundais. They are rough riding, coarse engines, terrible gearshifts, less than comfy seats, panel gaps may not be
uniform,... but they are reliable beasts. I dont recall seeing a rusty one and Id be more than confident on doing a lap of Australia in one.
As for rustworthyness.... Every second VW on the road has what a non enthusiast would call terminal cancer. Sure they are a little older, but its not
a new phenomenon, they have been rust buckets for a slong as I can remember. My 74 datsun had rust in the 88, my 76 honda had bad rust in 1990, my 84
telstar had serious rust in 1990, my 97 lancer has just started to get some stains coming through the paint work. The 94 falcon I had in 2004 didnt
have any rust at all, though plastics had faded and rubbers were on their way out (never garaged) That seems pretty consistent if not an improvement.
And it wasnt too long ago that every 5th car on the road stopped when it rained. WD40 manufacturing must be taking a hit as well as RACV/NRMA/etc.
Engines dont need to be pulled apart to be de coked anymore, they run nice and clean and efficient. New cars dont live long in accidents, but people
do they are more safer. They are getting a lot harder to steal. They live on no maintenance at all. I just had my lancer fuel filter changed for the
first time at just under 200,000kms, why the hell not get the oil done at the same time... air filter too. I paid 14,000 for it s/h in 1999 and it
still goes strong despite its neglect. I guess its "worth" about $1500 now. I've eesily got my $12500 worth out of it, im stoked.
Totally agree on resale values being non-existant, but its a good thing. Thats the very reason I bought an 11 month old falcon for 19K. Jump in comfy
lounge seat, turn key, adjust AC temp, set crusie control at 80kmh, put CD on at soothing low volume, arrive at work 20 minutes later and wonder if I
had been awake at any point of the journey. 12l/100kmh city,
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 10:11 PM
hmmm the tail end of my post dissappeared. cant be bothered rewriting the essay other than why would you not spend the exrtra couple of thousand on a
second hand falcon and buy a new hyundai? Apart from the thing where its cool to beat up on falcons and commodores that is.
I dont think its a bad thing that new cars have no resale/character. It makes driving a VW more fun. No matter how much grief they provide.
VWCOOL
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 10:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
hehe, too true. my grandfather and his best friend bought brand new beetles around the same time, he got one of the last ovals and his mate one of the
first big windows. the oval was a gem of a car, the later model (aus built) was back at the dealership within a couple of months because of rust under
the back window, a problem that re-occured continuously throughout its life.
The Oval was Oz-built too... both it and the Big Window were built from kits
I can recall people talking about newspaper articles like this in, oh, about 1977 when the first 'Jap Crap' invasion was at its peak...:blah
The next thing it was Alan Bond (remember him?!) with the funny little Korean cars ("Say hi to Hyundai!") in '86. They were $9990 and $10,990.
Daewoo was next with the ex-GM/Opel/Vauxhall '1.5i' jobbies at $11,990 (I think) in 1994.
All these cars were going to be the thin edge of the wedge/Last Rites for Australian, Japan, USA etc etc ... you get the drift... :blah
...and on it goes!!
Now it's Thailand. Next will be China and - maybe - India.
The fact is, the cheapest way to own a car (disregarding classics) is to buy with your own $ and use it, not buy with borrowed funds and sell
:thumb
[ Edited on 1-3-2007 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
david777
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 10:17 PM
I dont think anyone on this forum would need convincing that you can avoid the huge depreciation drops that new cars experience by buying a classic VW
that may actually go up in value over time.
However there may be exceptions. I can't believe how little Golf Karmann cabriolets from the late 80s and early 90s are now worth.
Andy
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posted on March 1st, 2007 at 11:34 PM
Hmmm.. our '73 L bug ~150,000km from new, full service history. Only engine bits replaced in 34 years are regulator, clutch, fuel pump, output
shaft seal, fan belt, gasket kit though carb. Engine still tight and uses no oil. Never had any wet weather issues, including driving though storms. I
still happily run points too!
Similar story for our '71 fasty (~140,000miles), though I don't have entire service hisory on this one (it was bought second hand).
Our '77 2L kombi, all running gear, including motor re-built with NOS parts, in the last ~60,000km other than oil only replaced plugs and points
once.
I am not old enough to know the stories of the day when they were new, but do know what I have seems OK.
Rust is a whole other issue, that they seem to do just fine
:P
Quote:
Originally
posted by 1500S
>Thanks for the info...does anyone have VW sales prices for '55 to '75 and what they were being sold for then? <
In those mid 60s, a Type 3 was around 1099 pounds. For the younger ones that's $2198 plus on road costs. Wages for a tradesman in a metal trade in
those days was around $40 per week!
Whether we like it or not, when we look back they weren't really "the good old days" compared to the last 10 years. We like our VWs no matter
which body design but when we compare them with the lumps of modern day throw away bits of junk, there is no comparison.
There weren't many VWs....bugs, type 3 or kombis........ which could come up near the lasting in the engine department of the little rice burners.
Bugs were clapped out at near the 100,000 miles and the type 3s were lucky to get past the 35,000 miles before the valves were burnt out or, in the
case of any of those 40 hp and 1500 engines, the rocker studs fell out with regular monotony.
OZ built VWs were a bit like Fords and Holdens of the day. On a still night, you could hear them quietly rusting away through poor painting. Also,
we could see what the German built ones looked like and only dream about the extra trim. I am only talking about the Type 3 range here and comparing
the local 1500S with the German one.
Most cars these days are far better value for money than ever before both in interior comforts and engine/body lasting. That Type 3 notch in 1965
would have been around 1 years salary. A Commodore base model is around 2/3 of a year (ONLY A GUESS AT SOME SALARIES!) and if you compare that or any
other gas guzzler or rice burner there is no comparison................... by the way, on a good run a Commodore is near or just as fuel efficient as
a Type 3 1500 or 1600!!
Any other non-biased thoughts?
DH
Type3Sicko
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posted on March 2nd, 2007 at 12:23 AM
Jesus! Who would buy a new crumpledoor, falcon, mitsi or toyota for the $ they are asking(see depreciation/ build quality/point of origin) when a
restored VW will always give you more driving pleasure...maybe a teethgrinding rust repair bill or gearbox rebuild, but face it most DECENT
restorations these days are bringing back VW's to better than new finishes and reliability. look after your VW and watch out for dickhead thieving
mechanics and dodgy driving, it will still get you to your destination and certainly in better style. Unless you are a Fanatic of other brand
vehichles...and you are entitled to your opinion, most people I know will smile alot wider at a well looked after VW than a generic shitbox with a
thin coat of paint from twelve different countries with dubious origins and plastic bumpers with more airbags and acronyms like
ECT,ABS,AWS,HDC,PCP,LSD,VVTIT...blah blah,blah ... we will all die at some point, why not enjoy life by driving one of the GREATEST CARS IN HISTORY,
we know it's origins, not all that great ,but triumph over adversity and all that crap... a car that is still fantastic to drive,admired, revered,
cherished,frequently restored, sometimes overpriced, sworn at, balled in used in more and more in films and advertisements, given to young drivers as their first car, guarenteed to give more smiles per mile, even when
you have broken down and don't have your spare whateverwhat is...this Volkswagen thing is here to stay...now only if my VW ran on Tabasco...or some
other derivitive...like hemp?...nah... du pont wouldn't like that. but that's another story. Shine on aussieveedubbers what was the question again? oh yeah...it's a squareback
[ Edited on 1-3-2007 by kombinationdetailing ]
How many is enough?
mscabrio
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posted on March 2nd, 2007 at 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally
posted by phatratpat do you think in 30 yrs time cars of today will be classics ?
I DONT! {throws money at the vw}.....
I don't know what you are talking about ????? Of course my Daewoo is going to be a classic ..... :bounce
modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
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posted on March 2nd, 2007 at 10:23 AM
Thos interested in original (US) retail prices can follow the "Classic Cars" route at http://www.nada.com.
e.g. 1960 Beetle MSRP $1565, value estimate $3550-$10500.
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posted on March 2nd, 2007 at 01:40 PM
ha, classic cars in 30 years!
we have a toyota starlet 1997 life with 450000 k's on the clock!
she's the most reliable thing out, even if she leaks a little oil, only major thing was she did a gearbox. we bought it cheap in 2000 to stop taking
64 xm coupe (v8) to the city everyday for work, saves wear & tear on the old falcon & saves petrol too.
ballarat to city adds on the k's fast!
anyway she owes us nothing.
she looks a little sad as she had an encounter with a kangaroo recently:cry, but she still keeps going!
I had a heap of crap lemon AU Ute, cost a futune in repairs at
every service , so last year decided to get a toyota 2000 landcruiser,(for towing the horsefloat) toyotas seem to be worth having,
I still love my bugs best tho, little ragtop beetle maybe my sweet
cruiser, but she can't tow the horse float or car trailer!!!!
***WANTED HK HT HG MONARO PARTS***
koolkarmakombi
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posted on March 2nd, 2007 at 03:52 PM
I, or all of you would rather have a older VW.
Cars are depreciating nearly as fast as PC's. Ok I made that up however the day of the vehicle really holding value are long gone. I was amazed
when I got the last insurance renewal, aami- 13k woth of impreza last year, 8.2k this year, and the premium went up! Rating 1, mouldy oldies so no
age penalties, still $508..... Did less than 10k over the year
Makes my $150 for 6k on my classic /5 bmw from shannons a steal.
Got me looking at car yards etc as I was driving around, looked at a few auctions on the net and cars are really really cheap for 5+ year old cars.
some that are advertised private, notice boards, boards etc a really dreaming about prices. A girl at work has a car she is trying to sell, photos,
number etc but owes too much to sell it for what it is worth, bought on AGC or something.
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toplessbug
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posted on March 2nd, 2007 at 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by david777
I dont think anyone on this forum would need convincing that you can avoid the huge depreciation drops that new cars experience by buying a classic VW
that may actually go up in value over time.
However there may be exceptions. I can't believe how little Golf Karmann cabriolets from the late 80s and early 90s are now worth.
got to agree with that ,,recently sold a mk3 cabby new price ~50k for just 14k and the car was a gem --35k in just 10 yrs
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
whatnow
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posted on March 3rd, 2007 at 12:57 AM
good topic.
in 30 years will there be fuel to run our internal combustion cars let alone have "classics"?
we are talking down (ok i'm being pc here) hyundai's, but what was a beetle back in the day... a cheap small "foreign" run around.
newoldmanx
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posted on March 3rd, 2007 at 11:07 AM
Australia is indeed "the lucky country" and the fact that most ppl in the country can afford a car {and clean running water INSIDE the house(EVEN IN
THE TOILET)} means by world standards......
they are absolutly filthy stinking RICH-
here in fiji a highly skilled mechanical engineer (that can manufacture parts not just fit them) gets paid $65 for a 6 day week:puke the average shite
box costs $20,000+
:vader
SO STOP YA WHINGING AND REALIZE JUST HOW DAMN LUCKY YOU ARE:vader
[ Edited on 3-3-2007 by newoldmanx ]
its just a car for f*%k sake
1500S
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posted on March 3rd, 2007 at 10:53 PM
Anyone want a part time teaching job in NSW TAFE?! We are constantly looking for engineering teachers. The $60/hour sure beats that!
Why do some still prefer other cars makes or later model VWs these days? Creature comforts would be one main reason. Many of us here have been
driving VWs of various types and travelled near 1,000,000 km. As a few others have mentioned above, many of the Jap, Korean etc vehicles are still
good at near 400,000km. That's far better than most of the aircoled VWs. The reasons we like the VW is mainly it's unique features/shape etc.
Why do many decide on updating and losing money on later models? The answer is simple "because they can"!
In my case, I still like fiddling with them after first being introduced to them around 1960 and then learning to drive on an oval bug in the mid 60s.
The main reason I don't drive them more than necessary now is parts are just too scarce.
We have to admit that even the Crumpledoor and F........On Race Days are reasonably economical and run at the same l/100 km as our VWs. I have seen
the VY Commodores down to 7.9 l/100km on a run to Melbourne. The Fords are a bit more thirsty at around 9.5-10l/100km. The newer VE Commodore? Who
knows even though it's a smaller engine.
Car prices.................... I think we are still on topic! As long as we live we will always have the for and against people who stay or divert
from being faithfull to the Wolfsburg Wonder and find that other cars do have uses.
...then again, one persons trash is anothers'...
do you think in 30 yrs time cars of today will be classics ?
cost a futune in repairs at
every service , so last year decided to get a toyota 2000 landcruiser,(for towing the horsefloat) toyotas seem to be worth having, 
I still love my bugs best tho, little ragtop beetle maybe my sweet
cruiser, but she can't tow the horse float or car trailer!!!!
