| [ Total Views: 1258 | Total Replies: 18 | Thread Id: 65777 ] |
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 ratty 63
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| posted on October 25th, 2007 at 10:27 PM |
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1600 Cam in a 1200
Hi everyone,
During a bit of a chat with other VW nuts today an idea came to me, I'm not sure if it is even possible to do,so I thought that I would ask your
advice.
Is it possible to fit a 1600 cam in a 1200?
I have a number of 1200's that only need minor work to get them running reliably again and I thought that I would try a few things to improve the
power output. I am told that the lobes are much 'steeper' on a 1200 cam than they are on a 1600 cam and that (therefore) the 1200 cams don't have
as much overlap - so rather than have a custom cam ground-up, would it be possible to just fit a 1600 cam?
Has anyone experimented with this? If so, what were the results?
Whilst I'm asking, has anyone ever fitted a re-ground or custom cam to a 1200? What were the specs and how much difference did it make?
R 
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 vw54
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 06:35 AM |
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Give Watsons Cams a call at Burliegh Heads 07-5593-7722
I have used there 1200 regrind cams and they work good
I dont think the 1600 cam will physically fit in the 1200 block
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 12:29 PM |
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Thanks for the tip about Watsons - I'll give them a call now.
R
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 01:22 PM |
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...just as a matter of interest, do you have the specs on the cam that you use?
R
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 01:32 PM |
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Hi
1200 & 1600 cams are interchangeable, just make sure that the 1600 one is 3 stud like the 1200 one. The later 1600 cams are 4 stud with a deep
dish.
Steve
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 03:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
1200 & 1600 cams are interchangeable, just make sure that the 1600 one is 3 stud like the 1200 one. The later 1600 cams are 4 stud with a deep
dish.
Steve
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Ahhhh! Now that an interesting piece of info - thanks Steve.
Is this something that you have tried?
I would really like to know what difference (if any) is made to the 1200 if you fit a 1600 cam...
R
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 07:15 PM |
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Hi
There are slight variations over the years with factory cams, nothing to get excited about. If you buy a new cam from Bergs, Engle etc they are all
based on the dimensions of the 1200/40hp cam. You could fit 1600 rocker gear for a very slight power increase, they are 1.1 : 1 instead 1:1, VW54 did
this to his car.
As a matter of interest the cam in the 1.9 and 2.1 Wasserboxer motor used in the Vanagon model is based on the 40hp style cam only its 4 stud like the
late 1600 cam but also hydraulic.
Steve
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vw54
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| posted on October 26th, 2007 at 08:18 PM |
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yeah the 1st grind from Watsons is like Engle 110
but using the later rocker you get a little more lift at the valve as well
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Special Air Service
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| posted on October 27th, 2007 at 05:26 PM |
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Sorry to hijack, but while we are on this topic can anyone tell me if late 1300 rockers are the same ratio as 1600's?
What are the distinguishing features of the 1600 rockers, ie. how do you tell them apart?
Cheers
Brendan
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Click Below [/size]
[size=6]Mid North
Coast VW [/size] |
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dangerous
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| posted on October 27th, 2007 at 06:32 PM |
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Only the early 40hp rockers are 1:1 ratio.
Everything else from 1300 up (not type 4) is 1.1:1 ratio.
I found better gains I could feel in my 1200,
with exhaust, and intake manifold and carb, and nine spring 180mm clutch
Cam will move the power to a higher rpm, but the gains will be minimal without improved intake system.
It will feel different however.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 29th, 2007 at 01:01 PM |
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Thanks for all that info guys.
I have begun collecting parts for my 'big bore' rebuild (ie: 1400 upgrade) and I am trying to put together a collection of parts that will give me a
good balance between power (as much as a 1200 based engine can give!), economy and drivability.
I really want this engine to drive like a stock engine down low as I don't like revving engines too hard, so a big cam is out of the question. This
is why I was wondering about the 1600 cam, which I am told has a longer overlap.... please correct me if this is wrong.
So far I have collected a late 1200 (twin relief) case, a brand new set of 1400 piston and barrels, a set of balanced rods with new gudgeon bushes
fitted, a stock 1200 crank, a 200mm 6 volt flywheel, clutch and pressure plate (crank, flywheel and pressure plate are away being balanced at the
moment). Of course I have new bearings and rings to suit.
I am planning on organising a set of twin port 1300 heads with 1600 valves fitted.
I have also picked up a couple of sets of 1500 Type III twin carbs to fit onto one of a couple of different manifolds that I have also collected in my
travels. I'm not sure what type of filters I will run - but I want something that is not going to be noisy, but still look period in a '63 Beetle.
Any suggestions?
As far as an exhaust goes, I have collected a couple of 1600 extractor/exhaust systems that are near new, but are slightly damaged - I plan on cutting
and welding a combination of these along with some additional pieces of tube to create a 'tuck-up' style exhaust that will still exit through the
standard cut-outs in the rear panel (my Brother is in charge of the bending and design of the exhaust as he has fitted the exact same thing to his
G/f's car recently).
I have just managed to prise a dog-house style fan housing and cooler from my brothers grasp and I have begun welding up the unnecessary holes. This,
along with the rest of the twin port tin will be sanded back and painted so that it all looks a little more... um...professional! Perhaps 'presentable' would be a better way to describe it...
I am also considering fitting a combination oil pump and filter that I already have in my possession ...but the jury is still out on that one...
My Brother has just offered me a cam from an engine that he pulled down a couple of years ago - it's a Wade 149. Anyone had any experience with this
grind...sorry I'm not sure of the specs. He tells me that it performs better than a stock cam in a 1600, but the engine still idles smoothly - this
is something that is important to me.
If you have any suggestions or comments as to what else I could do to my engine and/or parts combinations, please feel free to comment.
R
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 29th, 2007 at 09:47 PM |
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Hi
Look I'm all for people doing their own thing and modifying cars to suit their own taste. I have just got to say this and please take it as kind
advice, forget the 1200 and put at least a 1600 in it.
Steve
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ratty 63
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| posted on October 30th, 2007 at 09:17 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
Look I'm all for people doing their own thing and modifying cars to suit their own taste. I have just got to say this and please take it as kind
advice, forget the 1200 and put at least a 1600 in it.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
I understand where you are coming from and why you say this - but as I have a large number of 1200 engines in my possession and no 1600's I'll stay
with my original plan. I'm really only doing this out of interest to see what sort of result you can get from a 1200 - it's really only an
experiment - the car was only going to get a stock 1200 in it otherwise.
Just in case you are interested - I have an EFI 1835 ready to go into my '66 steel sunroof bug and a Type IV being converted to upright cooling and
EFI for my Baja.
R
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vw54
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| posted on October 30th, 2007 at 09:24 AM |
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u will probally get about 35 hp at the wheels with the 1200 as Steve said its a waste if u want performance but however if you want nostaliger
then got for it
Extractors n Twin carbies with a mechanical early kombi dissy are about the best options
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ratty 63
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| posted on October 30th, 2007 at 10:10 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vw54
u will probally get about 35 hp at the wheels with the 1200 as Steve said its a waste if u want performance but however if you want nostaliger
then got for it
Extractors n Twin carbies with a mechanical early kombi dissy are about the best options
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Wow - 35hp at the wheels! I'll get the speed wobbles with all that power! After all - I have been driving a well worn (ie: worn out) 1200 for
years.
....and I thought that my borrowed 1600 which is only running on 3 cylinders was powerful! I'll have to be careful!
Nostalgia, with a bit of extra power is all I'm interested in... just an experiment.
R
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vw54
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| posted on October 30th, 2007 at 04:58 PM |
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Dont worry i have done this before as well for the nostaliger
I found the Twin Carbies Ken Virgin type give better torque than the Judson supercharger I will be fitting up my 65 Sea Blue soon just got to over
haul the Kombi dissy
Its all good fun
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on October 31st, 2007 at 05:59 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
my '66 steel sunroof bug
R
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I have some old 40hp single ports I will swap for that old car that you don't need.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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ratty 63
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| posted on October 31st, 2007 at 09:23 AM |
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dangerous
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| posted on October 31st, 2007 at 03:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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