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 whatnow
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| posted on May 19th, 2003 at 10:03 PM |
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i have never looked into it so can only say whet i have seen, but there used to be a purple and pink oval with i belive a 13B turbo in it running
around the west ryde area (sydney) then later on around armidale (northern nsw) though i don't know what size rotary it was fitted with then
(still had an intercooler sticking out the top of the deck lid though).
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 kombi_kid
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| posted on May 19th, 2003 at 10:11 PM |
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as they say and many to come "how longs a piece of string"
ur bro is an expert at this ask him?
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 19th, 2003 at 10:24 PM |
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Hi
It depends on the original factory weight of your bug.
From the RTA website,
“Original weight” is the original (unmodified) “tare weight” of the sedan version of the vehicle model fitted with the largest engine
available for the model but without optional accessories such as air conditioning and tow bar.
So multiply your original weight by 2.5 for turbo motors and 3 for NA.
The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of all rotors x 2, so a 12A = 2400cc
So to run a 2400cc motor (12A) your bug would need to weigh 800 kg from the factory.
1302Steve
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vwrallycar
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| posted on May 20th, 2003 at 08:14 PM |
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hey do what im doing, put a golf motor in it!
cheap, reliable, fits easy, and best of all its a vw engine :thumb
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kafer70
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| posted on May 20th, 2003 at 08:33 PM |
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aaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!
Not another rotary.:cussing:cussing:cussing |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on May 20th, 2003 at 08:55 PM |
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Put a V6 in it and smile everytime you put your foot down, or even sit in the car 
The best place to look for ideas is
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=19
You will need to know your beetle model before you can find it's weight. If your in QLD your vehicle weight should be printed on your rego
sticker.
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 20th, 2003 at 09:21 PM |
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this mediocre mind says get the car that the engine is suited to...Rotary = small Jap car...sounds crap but screams.
V6 in Larger Jap car or Holden Family sedan.
Oh Volkswagen... they are great with VW motors, although I guess you are increasing the value of my car by doing the Engine Swap , so maybe it has
merit....Hack away cobber...
Regards,Glenn>
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68notch
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| posted on May 20th, 2003 at 10:53 PM |
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Hack away indeed!
VW might have even known what they were doing when they built their motors!?
A rotisserie in a VW? Please...
A Holden motor in a VW?
Something's not right about that either...
Keep it aircooled man!
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Che Castro
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 12:02 AM |
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i'll be the devils advocate and say that the rotary is a great swap. They're relatively cheap, very small and lightweight, smoooooooth like
nothing else, rev to the moon and make heaps of power.
An EJ20T is also a great swap but its more complicated, you have to cut away the body because the DOHC heads are too big.
Either option if you go for a late model jap motor you'll have to go for Programmable Fuel injection which is BIG $$$
Aircooled motors are great, but they just cant compare with modern motors in terms of price/power/longevity. The only reason I want to go down the
aircooled path is because I couldnt have anything else in the back.
Jon
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Marty
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 12:46 AM |
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Hi Jon,
I have been into Chev's for those who want to know, $30,000-$50,000 for just the engine, (1100HP) in the States.......
I am relatively new to the VW scene as such (8yrs ago lapsed racer) but I have to point out a few things about yr post.
Rotary engines (one's that make any power anyway) are not cheap at all...... maybe for a std 12A or 13B, but when u want 2 make the pwr of a 20B
triple rotor on Methanol and Nitrous to run a sub 9sec 1/4 mile they suddenly become REALLY expensive.
Also, have you ever tried to pick up a 12A even? they need 2 solid, 3 mediocre guys to pick the engine up off of the floor, that is certainly NOT
"lightweight", shit, even I can lift my magnesium cased VW engine onto a Jack stand by myself.
F that with a Rotary lead grenade.
They are not inexpensive as they get around 5MPG for a serious HP one.
And the fact that you are left simply with 1 carb or a piece of yr Fuel inj when they blow up(and they do) means a whole new engine.
If I even run a big end in my dub, then $600 later I am back on the road, NOT $1500 for a 'wrecker' engine and all the nonsence to boot.
Forget that, the 400lb saved in weight of a Rotary vs a mag Vw engine means I can run less Hp in an ACVW than the Rotary to achieve the same times.
Maybe more money in the short term but less in the long.
You'll never sell me the merits of that engine in a bug.
M |
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kafer70
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 07:12 AM |
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About 15 yrs ago I had an 1835 in a sleeper back before imports were the rage.Everyone who owns a vdub knows of the ridicule you sometimes cop when
the guy in his stepped up Torana or whatever pulls up beside.
There's nothing sweeter than blowing these guys away and seeing the looks on their faces in your rear view as the dak dak pulls away. This small
victory is at its sweetest when its a flat four aircooled vw engine.
We all know it takes a bit of money to make the humble wobbly engine go fast but when it does, man ,there's nothing sweeter. (tear in eye).
Be patient and stay aircooled. |
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 08:01 AM |
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mmm
technology is good, we would not be here with out. I say if you want to chnage over to another engine go for broke. Half the fun in life is doing
what others have been telling you can't be done.
As for $$$$ it will cost what you can spend, if you don't have much then you will find away just don't turn into a free loader and I am sure
all your mates will chip in a hand or two. |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 08:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Che Castro
Either option if you go for a late model jap motor you'll have to go for Programmable Fuel injection which is BIG $$$
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That is not true. If you buy a front cut then you can use the factory ECU like I did. Multipoint sequential fuel injection is one of the major
advantages of my jap engine swap.
The only advantage of the air-cooled vw motor is it's light and simple. No-one could seriously try to tell me that the 30's technology vw
motor is better engineered than the 90's technology quad cam V6 in the back of my car. And it's not a crap Holden V6.
And the people that say VW engined VW's are much better than jap engined VW's obviously haven't been for a ride in one.
To me a car is simply a piece of engineering artwork. Brand means absolutely nothing, I appreciate it for what it is. To me it isn't putting a
jap motor in a german car, it is putting a beautifully engineered internal combustion engine in a just as well engineered light weight 2 wheel drive
offroader to make a vehicle that anyone who appreciates good engineering will appreciate.
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moonlite6t6beetle
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 posted on May 21st, 2003 at 10:26 AM |
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Kafar70
Kafar70 you understnad what i want to do, i am looking at going fast and all but i dont ever wantmto run a rotary, i asnt to BE ridiculed just so i
can blow trhere doors off... if you understand what i mean.
All i want in my 66 beetle is a roughly 13 second streeter... something that CAn be a daily driver and also be quick... i say if youve got yourself a
good block, slap a turbbo on it and then run low boost when your on the street, but then when you take it down the quarters turn up your PSI to BLOW
there doors right off... its not as hard as you think.
Anyway in a special kit (mind blank on name) you can fit a dial to your dash to have a fast boost in PSI when ever you need it.
Hope this helps you out, remember
STAY AIRCOOLED, STAY WITH WHAT GOD MADE VW's TO RUN ON!!!!!!!!!!!
Moonlite... 54 and 66 beetle
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 11:13 AM |
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All right all right people, horses for courses for christ sake.....
And as for cutting up a vw to fit a rotary - its only mods to the front to fit a radiator. I've seen worse things done to VW's than that.
Rotaries are small enough to fit in the engine bay no worries without cutting it to shreds - have a look at Zenjoes car - nice carbied rotary
conversion.
There will always be small minded people that cant appreciate how much work and engineering goes into a proper conversion.
Having said that, I would shoot someone if they cut up an oval or a split beetle to do a conversion.
Fuel consumption is related to power creation. You cant have one without the other - big block chev, jap turbo, or webbered vw, if you are making big
numbers, you need to use lots of fuel to do it. Rotaries will be slightly worse as they can have overlap and push unburnt fuel out the exhaust ports.
I'm with wes (unless its an oval or split or something rare) - its all engineering / autromotive artwork, and what suits one person wont suit
another.
My 2c worth
Doug
PS - God didnt invent the VW - Ferdinand Porsche did:vader
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Andy42
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 11:14 AM |
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quote
STAY AIRCOOLED, STAY WITH WHAT GOD MADE VW's TO RUN ON!!!!!!!!!!!
So I hope the turbo you are running will be of an origanal vw. Remind me again what models those orginal turbos came out on??????
Who cares where the motor or so forth comes from as long as the owner is happy with his car. |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 11:52 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Andy42
So I hope the turbo you are running will be of an origanal vw. Remind me again what models those orginal turbos came out on??????
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Exactly. Tell me how many VW parts on Rod Penroses drag motor. none (could be wrong but I doubt it).
Build a 150HP vw motor and tell me how many vw parts on it, not many I'm guessing.
Which VW's come with webers?
It's funny the line people draw on what is and isn't vw, and what should and shouldn't go into one. Some people are way too judgmental.
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kafer70
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 12:47 PM |
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To run 13's with a vdub engine you'll probably need to mortgage your house or put off buying one for a couple of years.
turbo's and blowers sound great but they all have there own share of problems which only more money can fix |
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 04:49 PM |
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If you wanted cheap, easy hp I would probably do an extend ported 13B with big 50mm webber carby - no efi to worry about, big-ish HP, easy
conversion.
Down sides - bad fuel efficiency, high idle speed, possibly slightly bad driveability down low.
Quick in a straight line though....
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Secoh
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 04:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Andy42
quote
STAY AIRCOOLED, STAY WITH WHAT GOD MADE VW's TO RUN ON!!!!!!!!!!!
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pssst......God didnt make VW's... some nut job German did :P
If it aint broke,
Make it go faster!!  |
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jboy82
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 05:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by kafer70
About 15 yrs ago I had an 1835 in a sleeper back before imports were the rage.Everyone who owns a vdub knows of the ridicule you sometimes cop when
the guy in his stepped up Torana or whatever pulls up beside.
There's nothing sweeter than blowing these guys away and seeing the looks on their faces in your rear view as the dak dak pulls away. This small
victory is at its sweetest when its a flat four aircooled vw engine.
We all know it takes a bit of money to make the humble wobbly engine go fast but when it does, man ,there's nothing sweeter. (tear in eye).
Be patient and stay aircooled.
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I actually didn't mind Subarus in Vdubs, but after this man's brilliant explanation of the truth about VW wickedness, I'm sticking to
aircooled flat fours, and there's nothing wickeder then that.
Cheers(sorry about the wickeds)
Josh.
:thumb
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phatrat
A.k.a.: steve
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 06:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Baja Wes
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Che Castro
Either option if you go for a late model jap motor you'll have to go for Programmable Fuel injection which is BIG $$$
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That is not true. If you buy a front cut then you can use the factory ECU like I did. Multipoint sequential fuel injection is one of the major
advantages of my jap engine swap.
The only advantage of the air-cooled vw motor is it's light and simple. No-one could seriously try to tell me that the 30's technology vw
motor is better engineered than the 90's technology quad cam V6 in the back of my car. And it's not a crap Holden V6.
And the people that say VW engined VW's are much better than jap engined VW's obviously haven't been for a ride in one.
To me a car is simply a piece of engineering artwork. Brand means absolutely nothing, I appreciate it for what it is. To me it isn't putting a
jap motor in a german car, it is putting a beautifully engineered internal combustion engine in a just as well engineered light weight 2 wheel drive
offroader to make a vehicle that anyone who appreciates good engineering will appreciate.
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Say no more
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kafer70
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| posted on May 21st, 2003 at 07:01 PM |
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I guess we can all agree we all like the vw in all it's shapes and forms regardless of what pushes them along.
My personal view for those who are interested is "I'd rather use my money to make horsepower than to buy it". I guess this will put the
cat amongst the pidgeons.
But! for those who don't I salute you for looking outside the square.:thumb:thumb |
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on May 22nd, 2003 at 01:03 AM |
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a vw is a vw when..
i reckon if you have a VW engine number it's a vw. whatever you do to the case that makes it go faster, be it bigger cylinders, better heads,
more petch, or turbos or whatever, if its still a flat four with a vw case, and you blow away toranas, and it still goes 'dak' occasionally,
it's cooool.
my 2c
that way when the torana limps up to you at the drivethru, and asks what you've got under the hood, you can say, a worked VW engine. then you
beam and watch another vw enthusiast in the making woohoooo
:bounce
let sleeping dubs lie
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Baja Wes
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| posted on May 22nd, 2003 at 08:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Peter Leonard
i reckon if you have a VW engine number it's a vw.
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So if I stamp a VW engine number on my V6 then it will be a VW, fair enough
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on May 22nd, 2003 at 10:14 AM |
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sure!
yep, but first u have to file off your other one. and bash the case into a flat four configuration... and lose the watercooling..
let sleeping dubs lie
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OvalGlen
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| posted on May 22nd, 2003 at 10:18 PM |
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if you want to have a rotary , work it to do 13 sec Quarters, then why not start out by getting the car that has one fitted.
A Rotary Vehicle.
Will save you heaps of work, you could sell off all that Low tech Vw stuff, and you'll end up with a car that Aerodynamically will be suited to
the speeds that you will do.
Surely if you want to go later technology Engine then you will want later technology body styling,
none of that slow speed economy stuff that Beetles were designed for.
Regards,Glenn>
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Adam_C
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| posted on May 22nd, 2003 at 10:45 PM |
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yeh . . . i ddnt have my heart set on a rotary . . . i hate the sound of them . . . i was just interested . . . chances are ill get brendon to build
me up a larger displacement engine when i want it . . . . the rotary idea was simply an thought . . . i like the views of ppls ..... shit stirrin is
fun
cheers
adz
Adam
Adzslick@iprimus.com.au
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555bug
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| posted on May 23rd, 2003 at 05:29 PM |
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I have the ultimate engin for a bug (well I don't actually have one..but I'm working on it.) anyway how about this...sub 70kg 2L v8,
14000rpm rev limit and about 320hp? and apparently mortals can afforde one..but don't quote me on that. |
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jboy82
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| posted on May 23rd, 2003 at 10:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 555bug
14000rpm rev limit
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Mini F1 engine?
Hello, no normal engine besides motor cycles can get anywhere near that rpm.
Or arent you being serious(sorry, daftness)?
Josh
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