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Author: Subject:  2443 Twin turbo street bug project, back on track again.
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posted on December 3rd, 2007 at 04:40 PM



those r some fat wheels



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posted on December 3rd, 2007 at 06:35 PM



Yep, 18x10's with 265x18x30 RE55 semi slicks. Fronts are 18x8's.
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posted on December 3rd, 2007 at 06:37 PM



its a nice spread maybe a R&P change would be more advatageous is it the same as the 915 box?



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posted on December 14th, 2007 at 12:07 PM



Another progress update...

I finished welding and machining my 930 drive flanges to take 944 CV's yesterday, so the driveline is more or less sorted out now. All that remains is modifying a toyota starter motor to use a vw pinion gear so I can get the flywheel/starter to work together.

I've also performed a base alignment on the rear end of the car while having not welded the pivot boxes in place yet. I've been doing a lot of research into what toe and camber to run on the rear end of the car. With the toe adjustments at the rear set to the rear of the slotted spring plates I am aiming for 0 toe, and will dial in 2mm total toe after the welding is done. Camber will be set at 1.5 degrees at 0 adjustment. If setup for motorcarna events i should be able to set up to 3.5 degrees in the rear end. I am told that because my tyre are super sticky i'll be needing more camber to really take advantage of that.

Regarding a comment made by Fullnoise in the coil-over thread about wide wheel track and overstear experienced when using 7" tyres, I beleive this was probably caused by two things. Wider tyres and wheel track improves traction and stability while cornering normally. But the sidewall flex in the tyres while cornering will have resulted in the inner surface of the tread area having less pressure applied to the road surface. So to combat this an increase in camber is needed to keep more even road-tred contact accross the surface of the tyre. Wider tyres mean less road-tyre contact pressure as the load is spread accross a larger surface. Even if the sidewall flex is the same with the 6 and 7 inch tyres, the problem will get worse with wider tyres. This also means that there is improvements to be had with the 6" tyres by adding more camber as well.

Last of all, I have the left side lower A-arm suspension supports 1/2 done, though there is still a little more fine tuning to do this weekend and the new coil overs wont arrive till friday week. I will post some more pics on the weekend.

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 14th, 2007 at 02:33 PM



Hi

911s from 1972 to 89 used the same starter. I'm told that the semi auto bug starter is the same one used on 911s.

Steve
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posted on December 14th, 2007 at 02:36 PM



I could use a 911 starter if i was using a porsche 240 flywheel, but im using a 200mm vw flywheel instead. Fortunatly Dave Butler has made a starter motor adapter that allows fitment of a toyota camry 3sge starter motor. I only need to change the pinion and check the alignment.
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posted on December 14th, 2007 at 02:40 PM



Hi

That will be OK, old Dangerous is handy man to know. What some people do when using a Porsche starter is have a mounting ring made to bolt the Porsche ring gear to their flywheel.

Steve
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posted on December 15th, 2007 at 10:03 AM



You can buy the 9 tooth by 25mm diameter drive pinions to suit the Toyota starter from The Engine Centre in Melbourne.I just bought some of the mounting flanges to bolt the Denso starter to a VW bellhousing.I got these direct from IMI in the States.
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posted on December 16th, 2007 at 08:47 PM



Hi all,

Well i got nothing done yesterday because I've started on the mamoth task of re-wiring a mates 911 porsche. It was a right hand drive conversion and all the wiring is done 1/2 assed. Every coloured wire had been extended with all black wires so trying to decipher the loom was pointless. Instead ive just cut the whole lot out and will be starting again from scratch.

Though on sunday i got to spend most of the day grinding and welding. Here are a few pics of the latest progress.

930 Standard output flange
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00731.JPG

The same flange after a lot of tig welding, and then machining it flat on my lathe. I've put a small lip around the outside to center the 944 CV. It made it a very simple task to then drill and tap the new holes. I had a fair amount of trouble machining the welds back though. The tig welded filler metal is extremely hard and was chewing through lathe tool steel till i finally got around to setting up a coolant/cutting fluid feed to the cutting tip.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00733.JPG

And here is the completed drive flange installed back in the gearbox. Due to the height of the gearbox and the reduced size of the drive flanges I wont needot clearance the chassis horns at all which is nice and convenient.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00735.JPG

Here's and update pic of my irs conversion boxes. I had the positioning of the first version way out from where it should have been. I still havent welded them in place yet because I am still waiting on my suspension alignment tools. Hopefully they will arrive this coming week. I am looking forward to being able to do the finishing so I can put the chassis back on a set of wheels again.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00737.JPG

Here is the first of the A-Arm converison that is the start of the mcpherson strut conversion.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00739.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00740.JPG

The tube that is in the lower torsion bar mounting spot extends into the box section for extra strength, though I havent done the finishing welds yet. The upper torsion tube mounting spot will be the support for the mcpherson strut/coil-over shock.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00742.JPG

I hope to get access to the CNC pipe bender this week so I can have all my bends ready for the christmas-new years break.

The remaining engine parts arrive this week as well, so if I cant proceed with the front end, at least I can continue on the engine side of the project again.

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 17th, 2007 at 08:03 AM



Man absolutely awesome. I thought your beetle was pretty damm good before but like me I always seem to find ways to make things bigger and better so you strip and then start from scratch. Can't wait to see your car finished!!



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posted on December 17th, 2007 at 05:16 PM



love your work so far,

you had mention 7lb @2000rpm and potentually a max output 400rwp,i was wondering what turbo's you had in mind.




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posted on December 17th, 2007 at 09:59 PM



The turbos i have are garrett GT2554R's rated at 260hp each. Based on what the GT28R (0.64 turbine) did on my 2332 (full boost by 2200 RPM), the first turbo willl spool to full boost by 2000 ish rpm. I am going to attempt a sequential bi-turbo arrangement that copies whats done on the earlier liberty twin turbo, except that I am using the valve systems from a 2JZGTE supra engine.

The first turbo gets exhaust gas from all exhaust ports and spools to boost. The second turbo has a 2.5" pnumatic solenoid controlled valve over its exhaust turbine and another valve over compressor output. Both turbos also use internal wastegates (14lb actuators).

Spooling works like this. RPM's increase, first turbo spools to full boost. A 35mm wastegate that bypasses the exhaust side butterfly valve opens to control boost pressure while at the same time allowing exhaust gas to pre-spool the second turbine. As RPM's approach 3500-4500RPM or so the pre-spool valve will be virtually wide open, and the wastegate on the primary turbo will also be opening to regulate manifold pressure. At a to be tuned rpm (obviously on the dyno) the compressor side valve will open. There will be a momentary loss in manifold pressure during the change-over but as the second turbo is pre-spooled it should hit a suitable turbine speed very rapidly. From that point to redline they run in parallel. The harder the primary turbo is pushed before the secondary is enabled the less noticable the momentary manifold pressure loss during the transition from single to twin operation will be.

Now this is awefully complex, and I am going to give this a go just for the fun of trying to work out the engineering challange side of it. Worst case i'll switch to plain parallel twin turbo operation and it should hit full boost by 3000-3200 or so. That combined with the torque the 2443 should make will still make it quite drivable.

Suppose the sequential system does work, long term I could look at upgrading to a pair of GT2860R-10 rated at 400hp each. These are the garrett equilivent to a HKS GTRS GTR trimmed turbo. The benefit of that is response without pushing the turbo's well towards the end of their efficency range. Basically more power, less boost... same nice drivable response in theory.

Progress update...

My fancy electronic camber/caster measurement gear arrived today. Its an awesome new toy! Does camber and caster, but the best part is that the gauge detaches from the magnetic holder and alloes you to measure and compare any angle to anything else. Useful as I was able to zero the meter on the torsion tube housing and then set camber in relation to that.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00743.JPG

Anyway i've put it to use already and have properly aligned the rear end of the car to 1.5 degrees camber at what will be the final ride height, and welded everything in place at last. Its good to see it all sitting there not held together with cable ties anymore. I also stood and stared at the front end for 2 hours tonight and finalised the upper strut tower mounts. I've come up with something that is way simpler that I had planned, and it will also be increadably strong as well. Im off to buy more steel tomorrow.

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 17th, 2007 at 10:15 PM



Great work Ian. Sorry if you have mentioned this to me in the past (bad memory!), but how will you be sorting out the engineering side of things with the major suspension changes - I have no idea what sort of testing would required?

It is great people like yourself, westi and dangerous all take the time to share progress on projects like these - everyone seems to have their area of expertise so the knowledge pool is really quite vast. Keep up the great work.
Alan




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posted on December 17th, 2007 at 11:28 PM



I've been told to engineer the front end to be 5 times stronger than it needs to be. An engineer that saw the current progress told me that I am well above the minimum limit so far. Basically the front end needs to be able to support nearly 2 ton in the center of the suspension. It doesnt have to get tested though. Its a calculation based on materials used, thicknesses and weld practices used.

From an engineering/mod plate side of things i have a local guy lined up to approve the front and rear suspension modifications. I just need to finsh the chassis before he dies! His health is not so good. A different local guy can approve the gearbox change. Brakes will be handled as part of the suspension changes. Worst case there is an engineer in townsville that can also approve the front end mods but he is painful to deal with based on my last experiences with getting my previous porsche brakes approved. Way over priced and something like 5-6 visits (billed for) to check things and then disappear while checking some rule books or something.

I suspected that was because he had no prior vw experience and like the guys at department of transport when my car was last over the pits, pulled out a rule book for a 1968 vw beetle and tried to tell me nothing measured up properly. Retards!

I want to keep it as a VW chassis with modifications, not re-engineer the chassis under ICV or hot-rod rulings.
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posted on December 18th, 2007 at 09:03 AM



thanks for the info.
it's all about the correct flow i quess,is there a few different rear cover's with exactly the same bolt patterns the can be use to help get the combo right.




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posted on December 18th, 2007 at 10:15 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by 2443TT
The turbos i have are garrett GT2554R's rated at 260hp each. Based on what the GT28R (0.64 turbine) did on my 2332 (full boost by 2200 RPM), the first turbo willl spool to full boost by 2000 ish rpm. I am going to attempt a sequential bi-turbo arrangement that copies whats done on the earlier liberty twin turbo, except that I am using the valve systems from a 2JZGTE supra engine.

The first turbo gets exhaust gas from all exhaust ports and spools to boost. The second turbo has a 2.5" pnumatic solenoid controlled valve over its exhaust turbine and another valve over compressor output. Both turbos also use internal wastegates (14lb actuators).

Spooling works like this. RPM's increase, first turbo spools to full boost. A 35mm wastegate that bypasses the exhaust side butterfly valve opens to control boost pressure while at the same time allowing exhaust gas to pre-spool the second turbine. As RPM's approach 3500-4500RPM or so the pre-spool valve will be virtually wide open, and the wastegate on the primary turbo will also be opening to regulate manifold pressure. At a to be tuned rpm (obviously on the dyno) the compressor side valve will open. There will be a momentary loss in manifold pressure during the change-over but as the second turbo is pre-spooled it should hit a suitable turbine speed very rapidly. From that point to redline they run in parallel. The harder the primary turbo is pushed before the secondary is enabled the less noticable the momentary manifold pressure loss during the transition from single to twin operation will be.

Now this is awefully complex, and I am going to give this a go just for the fun of trying to work out the engineering challange side of it. Worst case i'll switch to plain parallel twin turbo operation and it should hit full boost by 3000-3200 or so. That combined with the torque the 2443 should make will still make it quite drivable.

Suppose the sequential system does work, long term I could look at upgrading to a pair of GT2860R-10 rated at 400hp each. These are the garrett equilivent to a HKS GTRS GTR trimmed turbo. The benefit of that is response without pushing the turbo's well towards the end of their efficency range. Basically more power, less boost... same nice drivable response in theory.

Progress update...

My fancy electronic camber/caster measurement gear arrived today. Its an awesome new toy! Does camber and caster, but the best part is that the gauge detaches from the magnetic holder and alloes you to measure and compare any angle to anything else. Useful as I was able to zero the meter on the torsion tube housing and then set camber in relation to that.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00743.JPG

Anyway i've put it to use already and have properly aligned the rear end of the car to 1.5 degrees camber at what will be the final ride height, and welded everything in place at last. Its good to see it all sitting there not held together with cable ties anymore. I also stood and stared at the front end for 2 hours tonight and finalised the upper strut tower mounts. I've come up with something that is way simpler that I had planned, and it will also be increadably strong as well. Im off to buy more steel tomorrow.

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 18th, 2007 at 10:16 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by 2443TT
The turbos i have are garrett GT2554R's rated at 260hp each. Based on what the GT28R (0.64 turbine) did on my 2332 (full boost by 2200 RPM), the first turbo willl spool to full boost by 2000 ish rpm. I am going to attempt a sequential bi-turbo arrangement that copies whats done on the earlier liberty twin turbo, except that I am using the valve systems from a 2JZGTE supra engine.

The first turbo gets exhaust gas from all exhaust ports and spools to boost. The second turbo has a 2.5" pnumatic solenoid controlled valve over its exhaust turbine and another valve over compressor output. Both turbos also use internal wastegates (14lb actuators).

Spooling works like this. RPM's increase, first turbo spools to full boost. A 35mm wastegate that bypasses the exhaust side butterfly valve opens to control boost pressure while at the same time allowing exhaust gas to pre-spool the second turbine. As RPM's approach 3500-4500RPM or so the pre-spool valve will be virtually wide open, and the wastegate on the primary turbo will also be opening to regulate manifold pressure. At a to be tuned rpm (obviously on the dyno) the compressor side valve will open. There will be a momentary loss in manifold pressure during the change-over but as the second turbo is pre-spooled it should hit a suitable turbine speed very rapidly. From that point to redline they run in parallel. The harder the primary turbo is pushed before the secondary is enabled the less noticable the momentary manifold pressure loss during the transition from single to twin operation will be.

Now this is awefully complex, and I am going to give this a go just for the fun of trying to work out the engineering challange side of it. Worst case i'll switch to plain parallel twin turbo operation and it should hit full boost by 3000-3200 or so. That combined with the torque the 2443 should make will still make it quite drivable.

Suppose the sequential system does work, long term I could look at upgrading to a pair of GT2860R-10 rated at 400hp each. These are the garrett equilivent to a HKS GTRS GTR trimmed turbo. The benefit of that is response without pushing the turbo's well towards the end of their efficency range. Basically more power, less boost... same nice drivable response in theory.

Progress update...

My fancy electronic camber/caster measurement gear arrived today. Its an awesome new toy! Does camber and caster, but the best part is that the gauge detaches from the magnetic holder and alloes you to measure and compare any angle to anything else. Useful as I was able to zero the meter on the torsion tube housing and then set camber in relation to that.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00743.JPG

Anyway i've put it to use already and have properly aligned the rear end of the car to 1.5 degrees camber at what will be the final ride height, and welded everything in place at last. Its good to see it all sitting there not held together with cable ties anymore. I also stood and stared at the front end for 2 hours tonight and finalised the upper strut tower mounts. I've come up with something that is way simpler that I had planned, and it will also be increadably strong as well. Im off to buy more steel tomorrow.

Cheers,
Ian
Ian thats a good investment!
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posted on December 18th, 2007 at 10:33 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by westi
thanks for the info.
it's all about the correct flow i quess,is there a few different rear cover's with exactly the same bolt patterns the can be use to help get the combo right.


The GT2554R has the same turbine housing and wheel as the GT28R (0.64 from memory) but a smaller compressor wheel, so i'd need to change the compressor wheel and housing if I wanted to upgrade them. Considering how cheap these are and the cost of re-balancing its not worth upgrading them. Turbo's from 220 to 500hp are available with the T25 flange so i have a lot of options should i change things down the track.
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posted on December 19th, 2007 at 08:04 AM



what i ment was the exhaust housing itself,if you have a few different housing's with different air ratio's you will find it much easier to match the air speed's when it is needed.ie spool it up early or late,it's not just all about the flow of the cartrige that you put in.i would ask your local turbo guy.you might find there is about five that can be used all with slightly different a/r.it might help.
can't wait to see more pic's.




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posted on December 21st, 2007 at 09:53 PM



Update time.... After planning most of the week I finally got up the courage to cut away some of the tunnel up front in preporation for the rack and pinion conversion. All in all it was a lot easier than I was expecting and went well. I've also fitted the right side A-Arm, spindle and at last have 4 wheels on the car.

I'll be using a flip kit to mount the tie rod ends on the tip side of the spindles. On a 944 they are normall on the under-side and the rack is mounted between the rear A-arm mounts. I am pretty happy with the geometry of how its all turned out.

My honda coil-over suspension arrived today! This means that over the next two weeks I will be making a lot of progess. I want to have the chassis close to be self supporting and to be able to roll and steer by then. We'll see how I go i guess. Here are the pics.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00744.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00746.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00747.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00749.JPG
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posted on December 21st, 2007 at 10:34 PM



Awsome job as always Ian.You certainly put you head down and @ss up. Well done.
Some tabs on the rear of the RHS arm mounts, and make it a bolt in assy.
Cheers




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posted on December 21st, 2007 at 11:06 PM



Awesome build you got going.

With regards to the position of your rack setup, how do you plan on getting the gear selector rod in and out should you need to renew the bushes?

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posted on December 21st, 2007 at 11:09 PM



Im using a completely different style of shifter. The shifter shift rod comes out of the tunnel near the hand brake and connects to the back of the shifting mechanism. Its pure race car stuff, i dont have any pics of that yet.

The steering rack is from a mazda 121. Cost me $115 from the wreckers with two universals. They are over 1000 from mazda spare parts...

Cheers, Ian
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posted on December 21st, 2007 at 11:39 PM



Hi

Looking good. Do the Honda coil overs bolt up to the 944 stub axles? I've often looked at struts from other cars and thought that they might nearly bolt up to the 2 bolts like on 944 & late L bug stub axles.

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posted on December 21st, 2007 at 11:44 PM



No they arent a bolt on but the length is good and the rear spring rates are close to what I want when I put the rear springs on the front etc. The mounts are going to be all custom.
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posted on December 22nd, 2007 at 12:58 AM



Looking GOOD Ian....keep the pictures rolling!!!



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posted on December 22nd, 2007 at 08:44 PM



I started on the mcpherson strut towers today and also made up a strut adapter to allow the honda struts to bolt on to the porsche spindles at a lower position. The coil overs are Tein super streets with adjustable dampening. The valving can and will later on be customised to the cars rear engine weight bias. I wll be using adjustable pillow ball top strut mounts on the front but they have not arrived yet. Honda's dont usually have adjustable camber/caster on the front end so the suspension supplier is chasing something that will suit, probably from a S13 or R32 nissan.

To further strengthen the strut towers I think I will end up running some 35x3mm flat bar around outside of the of the tower. The back end of the strut will tie in to the two bolt body mount point and the back of the 65x65 box section A-Arm mounts. I have allowed for about 10mm clearance each side between the towers and the body. The only modification to the body will be a 12mm hole drilled through the bodywork to allow the bolt to go through each side for the strut tower brace. The next step is fabricating some plate sections to tie the top of the strut to side of the strut tower.

Here are the pics.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00750.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00752.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00753.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00754.JPG

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 22nd, 2007 at 11:26 PM



Ian for camber castor you could make the mounts the diameter of Whiteline's camber bolts which have an ecentric built into them which give you about 1.5 deg of adjustment.

https://www.whiteline.com.au/store/default.asp?part=KCA415 

these are for a corolla sportivo. i picked these cause I had them in the sportivo I used to own. Popular car which makes them cheap to buy. you could drill the holes in your bottom strut mounts to fit these in if you haven't gone too far into it.

some food for thought...




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posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 AM



Hi

Your doing a great job, I hope you dont mind my input, but I find the net to be great help at times.

The 944 struts use exactly the same 2 bolt mount spacing as L bugs as do Mk 1 Golfs. On my daily driver L bug I got some Mk 1 Golf camber bolts and simply sloted the strut housing.

This gave me camber adjustment at the strut and also on stock location, the inside bolt of the lower control arms, by giving my car maximum positive camber on the inside and then getting it back to slight negative I was able slightly narrow the track to fit my wheels under OK.

Steve
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posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 07:39 AM



also have a look at drummond motor sports top plates they are very trick just installed some in a mates subaru VERY adjustable!!!!!



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