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Author: Subject:  2443 Twin turbo street bug project, back on track again.
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posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 08:31 AM



ABS....hmmm....that would be cool to see hooked up and working....:lol:



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posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 09:00 AM



Its going to be easier to keep all the suspension components Tein which is grear becase thats one less thing to have to go re-inventing. The caster tops that I am looking for will be something like these.

http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/08/bb/b0/14_1.JPG

I will be slotting the mounting points so I can set a static castor of 5 degrees and make it adjustable to about 8 max. Static camber will be .5 degrees at the limit of the pillow-ball mounts and will increse from there.

I'll be using the ABS sensor as an input to the speedo. A lot more tidy than a cable and some crazy and unreliable autometer cable to electronic speed sensor.

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posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 04:30 PM



I'd noted the ABS gear on the hub. Are you going to run the ABS?
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posted on December 23rd, 2007 at 09:59 PM



Defiatly not running ABS. Its way too complicated and I'd have to pull the entire system from a porsche 944 to adapt all the electronics and ABS valve hardware. If I end up with an autronic ECU though it is possible to use the speed sensors on the wheels for traction control. Also most ABS systems are a waste of time in my opinion. Its for people that dont know how to drive and panic when they hit the brakes. I've yet to have the ABS kick in on my GTR, and believe me when you stand on the brakes in that the car really pulls up. Brembo monoblocks and Endless pads and rotors help. The brakes on the bug will be 944/brembo 4 piston calipers all round with zimmerman cross drilled rotors and EBC red stuff ceramic pads.

Today saw a fair amount of progress. I finished off the supports for the mcpherson struts and welded them solidly in place while the whole assembly was sitting in the car. Ive allowed for 10mm of clearance to the bodywork from the back of the strut support. As you can see from the first pic there will be enough room for me to run a diagonal from the inside back of the strut to the center of the tunnel to brace them from flexing inwards and later with a strut tower is added, it will stop side to side flexing.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00757.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00760.JPG

And last of all I started on the mcpherson strut towers. They are made from 5mm flat bar. They still require considerably more trimming to get them right. I thought I had it sorted with cardboard templates, and then started aligning the base settings of 0.5 camber 6 degrees castor... after i'd already cut my material. Not so smart but anyway. On the bright side I need to remove more material and not add it.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00758.JPG

Tomorrow I hope to finish the passenger side strut tower and template all the parts for the other side. I dont get a full days work on it tomorrow though as ive got to go to work briefly in the morning and have to start the family christmas thing around 3:30 or so tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks for the feedback too guys.

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 26th, 2007 at 02:15 PM



All i can say is wicked, very nice work ian.

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posted on December 26th, 2007 at 08:04 PM



On christmas eve i finished tack welding the passenger side Mcpherson strut tower together with the camber and caster set where I wanted it, so today I set about finishing it and the drivers side as well. The are now fully welded on the outsides and when the chassis is flipped over I will weld the insides of the plated sections as well.

I've welded the round bar that joins the towers to the chasis to the frame head. So all in all i'm happy with todays progress. The front end is now self supporting. All that remains is the cross bracing of the towers, finishing the rear tower mount, drilling mounts for the steering rack, and finishing the front of the A-Arm mounts. That will be tomorrows mission.

Here are the pics.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00762.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00763.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00764.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00765.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00768.JPG

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Ian
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posted on December 26th, 2007 at 08:48 PM



Regrettably I didnt weigh the front end before I did this conversion, but as it is at the moment I can still lift the entire front end of the chassis with wheels and brakes attached and it seems lighter than the ball joint front end that I had removed. When I get a corner weight measurement done I will know for sure. Has anyone ever done a corner weight measurement on a stock beetle?
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posted on December 26th, 2007 at 09:27 PM



Sensational work, Ian... I've just been out in the carport sticking my head under my Oval... :crazy:



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posted on December 27th, 2007 at 08:25 AM



If you are considering doing it, getting a superbug chassis as a starting point is where i'd recommend starting. THats if your not wanting to increase the wheel track width at the same time.

Have a look at what this guy did with his front suspension conversion.
http://www.veewrx.com/ 

In my situation it was actually easier to use a king and link or irs/Bj pan, as the A-arm mounts are completely different to the VW mcpherson strut arms. All the reenforcing in a superbug pan would have been in the wrong place which would have meant unnecessary weight.
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posted on December 28th, 2007 at 07:40 PM



Today I made finished most of the front end off. I still need to do the rear mounts for the strut towers but im saving myself the pain if trying to weld upside down and will do them when I flip the chassis over to do all the under side of all the welding. The steering rack is bolted on now too and i've added a re-enforcing bar to support the drivers side rack mount so that it links it to the frame head.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00769.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00770.JPG

I also started on chassis re-enforcing. The lower plate extends through to the torsion housing tube either side of the gearbox mount. The upper triangle then ties it into the body mount. One more plate section will go from the torsion housing to the other side of the body mount to fully box in the torsion tube to limit its movement. An idea I kind of stole from Westi's build. I am still undecided what I am going to do with the rest of the pan. I think I will be welding in a few mounting tags and then bolting in alumunium floor sections. This will mean adding a structual support from the front frame head to the rear corners of the pan so that the outer edge of the torsion housing is also re-enforced. Trying to do this without adding a heap of weight will be the goal.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00771.JPG

Tomorrow I'll be finishing the re-enforcing and adding a rib over the gearbox to create a new section that the body can bolt on to. I am not sure how much the body will need to be clearanced for the gearbox yet. That will be worked out on the big day when the body meets pan.

Cheers,
Ian
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posted on December 29th, 2007 at 04:32 PM



Hi Ian what a great car! Wondering how you got the correct info as to setup the front suspension re ackerman etc, did you just transfer the porche setup? I ask as with your setup any rear facing a arm could, in principle be used ie subaru. The steering rack used, was is chosen for being the correct width to use with the porche a arms? Again great job and cant wait to hear how it progresses. Mike
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posted on December 29th, 2007 at 10:46 PM



I transferred the porsche setup. I did try calculating everything out using two programs that produce a whole lot of data but in the end it just got too complicated. I then approached the whole setup from a diferent perspective and went researching for info about alignment of 944's and 911's. Both used simular settings regarding camber and castor.

With regards to steering and ackerman angles I didnt look into that other than to note the location of a factory steering rack on a 944 and to try and get a steering box in as simuar location as possible... Which isnt possible. The 944 rack is mounted slightly forward of the spindle ball joints and low at the height of the inner A-arm mount. I wasnt able to get exact measurements. The 944 ball joint goes on the bottom of the spindle. So by using a ball joint flip kit I will achieve nearly straight steering rods from the ends of the rack. It was just luck that the width of the 121 steering rack was also nearly identical to the width between the rear A-arm mounts.

A much easier rack and pinion conversion could be done with a rack from something like a handy van, or any other mini van. Having the rack operate reverse to a normal rack would allow it to be mounted in between the front torsion beams. It makes the whole installation a lot less cramped and also makes the steering a lot easier to hook up. The spindles would also be swapped left to right.

Today didnt see a great deal of progress on the car. I've finished the drivers side plating around the rear torsion housing so its the same as the left, and started on the rear suspension/roll cage support mounts. But then I ran out of steel and welding gas and cant get more till monday or wednesday next week. Bummer, going to have to relax tomorrow.
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posted on December 29th, 2007 at 11:00 PM



Hi Ian

Will mounting the steering knuckles and A arms back to front as you've done affect anything? I can see why you've done it that way, as the A arms fit much neater that way.

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posted on December 30th, 2007 at 09:38 AM



ackerman is not to be ignored it affects turn in and bump steer. ackerman is the line drawn from balljoint axis thru steering arm pivot to rear drive line centre. great gains in handling can be had by making the steering arms adjustable and tuning in to suit your driving style ie are you a late braker and chose a late apex then positive akerman can help with turn in making the inside front have more toe out pulling the front in harder. if you get all of your braking done before turn in then less akerman may suit as getting on the power earlier tends to make the front less nervous tending to more oversteer.



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posted on December 30th, 2007 at 10:21 AM



I didnt mean to say i'd completely ignored ackerman, its just that a lot of measurements on the 944 and the vw are the same. Wheelbase for example is 2400mm on both cars. The track on the 1988 944 turbo is 1735mm and my widened chassis track measures 1730, so the ackerman will be very close to a 944. A standard beetle is 1540mm and I am just under 100mm wider both sides.

That ive put the spindles on the wrong way round is a massive screw up. Thanks for spotting that Steve, I dont know how i missed it. I was looking at pictures of a removed front end that was incomplete and had been removed from the car. I had assumed 944 was simular to 911 which I had also been looking at. On the bright side I get to move the rack and pinion to in between the torsion housings which where I wanted it in the first place. Swapping them shouldnt affect camber and castor. Not having the rack where it currently is will make my water, oil and cooling hoses a lot less cramped too which is a bonus. I have to run 6 pipes from under the tank to the back of the chassis.
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posted on December 31st, 2007 at 08:15 PM



Made a little more progress today. I've got the rear coil over shocks 1/2 finished. Note to self if i ever do this again I must buy a pipe notcher, because notching pipes with with a grinder is a pain in the ass. The gearbox still lifts in easily under the horizontal bar provided I remove the starter motor first.

Tomorrow i'll do the plates that the coil overs bolt onto.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00773.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00774.JPG

Ive reverse the steering knuckles too and re-measured everything and have ordered a porsche 924 manual steering rack which should arrive in 3-4 weeks.

Merry new year everyone!

Ian.
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posted on January 1st, 2008 at 07:49 AM



I like the way you have the steering knuckles it lends itself to better geometry and a better centre of gravity. This is a great project would make a great track car. thanks for taking us along for the ride



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posted on January 1st, 2008 at 08:09 PM



Yeah im making an effort to move as much weight forward as possible. Im relocating the battery to the front, the dry sump tank will be up the front too, as will the water-oil heat exchanger and a fuel cell instead of the factory tank. Now there is no tie rods under where the tank is, I will have a lot of room there too which is very helpful.

Today I finished most of the rear coil-over arrangement. I still need to make up the bottom mounts as the bolts for the bottom of the shock are way larger than a normal vw lower shock mount. I think its a 16mm bolt which is great because its way stronger than standard 12mm vw bolt. I am going to make the lower mount adjustable so I can change the height of the rear end by changing the position of the lower mount. The chassis is now entirely self supporting and rolls nicely.

I still have the steering and the rest of the floor pan to finish, seat mounts, fuel, oil and coolant lines to run, so i am thinking its about a month off completion if all goes well. Here are the pics.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00775.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00776.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00777.JPG

Cheers,

Ian
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posted on January 1st, 2008 at 08:43 PM



Great work there Ian. Would love to do things a little differently on VWRX seeing and reading some of this....

For interest take a look at this too.... http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/




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posted on January 1st, 2008 at 08:50 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by reub-revhead
Great work there Ian. Would love to do things a little differently on VWRX seeing and reading some of this....

For interest take a look at this too.... http://www.eyeball-engineering.net/
thats a cool site reubs! very similiar to mine actually.:cool:
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posted on January 1st, 2008 at 09:55 PM



Yeah I came across the eyeball engineering front end on the germanlook forums. Down side is that the rose/heim joints are not legal for use on australian roads. Not to mention they would last about a week on Cairns roads too. Though it would be a great basis if you were to buy it and modify it using more conventional suspension bushings.
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posted on January 19th, 2008 at 08:18 PM



Let there be steering. Today I finished installing a Porsche 924 steering rack in the front end of my chassis. It turned out very nicely. I still need to lengthen the steering rods a little and have discovered I need new tie rods as well. But who can complain when you pay $50 for it. Freight was $130 from the UK though, but thats way cheaper than $500ish that Australian porsche dismantelers wanted for a rack that needs a rebuild. Aussie porsche parts dealers price things like everything is gold plated.

Next on the list is a diagonal bracing for the strut towers. Here's the pics.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00780.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00782.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00783.JPG

Factory tie rod end location.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00786.JPG

Tie rod on top, where it will be after a flip kit is installed in the spindles.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00787.JPG

Other news is that I met with an engineer again 2 weeks ago. I will be having the chassis mods inspected in a about a month but I dont foresee any issues in getting it all approved based on what he has told me.
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posted on January 19th, 2008 at 09:05 PM



Great to see progress dude. You're right about the price of Porsche stuff in Australia too....

You'll have to enter it in a future Blood, Sweat and Gears series....
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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 08:24 AM



hi ian are you goin to have a roll cage incorarated in this car?



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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 08:56 AM



That was part of the plan, but a new QLD transport ruling has been passed that means cars with cages may well be un-registerable. I dont know all the details but I think its something to the effect of unless its a porsche GT3, its not legal.

Anyone else know anything about this?

I'll still be making a cage up, but it will have to be able to be un-bolted so it will probably be just a 1/2 cage. If I were using a body that wasnt already painted it would be nice to be able to weld the cage into the bodywork so its just reenforcing and isnt really just a cage anymore, like they do with circuit racing cars.
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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 09:00 AM



dunno about qld but cages are still legal in vic aslong as they are engineered to a vic roads memo cant remember the document number thou



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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 09:19 AM



I think its the beginning of QLD transport trying to crack down on modifications for all vehicles. Technically anything that is not OEM equipment is not legal under QLD transport rules. If they are serious about it and enforce it, it could take 90% of the cars off the road. A prime example is having an exhaust system replaced with a non genuine part by any exhaust system repair shop... illegal technically.

There may be a loophole under ICV rules.
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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 09:46 AM



if you don't put a full cage in the car all your lovely work that you have done will be for nothing,with the power you are sugesting and grip that the suspension and wheel base will produce.it will crack body and pan,it is too much stress for the poor old girl.you need to find away of stoping twist.some bracing from front to back or cage or both.

anyway that's my 2 cents.keep the pic's coming.love you work.




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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 02:17 PM



Looking good Ian keep up the great work and keep the posts coming.



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posted on January 20th, 2008 at 09:06 PM



Yeah your right westi. I'll have to have my engineer read up on it. He told me he has the updated documentation but hasnt bothered reading it yet. If ICV is the way around it so I can run a cage I may have to go that way instead, even though its a lot more work. I really dont want to have to put cats on the engine too, or hazzard lights, or side indercators... or any other non-period crap for a 1966.

I didnt get a lot done today. Went on a car cruise instead for lunch and then spent the afternoon working on the car. I've started on the passenger side floor pan changes, and also added some diagonals to the front strut towers. There will still be a strut brace to tie the top of the strut towers together that will be going through the body, but the small diagonals should be enough.

Here's a pic.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Chassis/DSC00793.JPG
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17.0.00030923DELETE FROM ubb_whosonline WHERE ip = '34.239.179.228' && (username = 'xguest123' OR username = 'xrobot123' OR username = 'Anonymous') OR time < '1623963832'
18.0.00015593INSERT INTO ubb_whosonline (username, ip, time, location, invisible, robotname) VALUES ('xguest123', '34.239.179.228', LPAD('1623964432', '15', '0'), '/viewtopic.php?tid=66140&page=3', '0', '')
19.0.00018477DELETE FROM ubb_guestcount WHERE ((ipaddress = '34.239.179.228') OR (onlinetime < '1623878032'))
20.0.00009990DELETE FROM ubb_robotcount WHERE ((ipaddress = '34.239.179.228') OR (onlinetime < '1623878032'))
21.0.00010991INSERT INTO ubb_guestcount (ipaddress, onlinetime) VALUES ('34.239.179.228', '1623964432')
22.0.00017500SELECT * FROM ubb_themes WHERE themeid = '1'
23.0.00014901SELECT * FROM ubb_pluglinks ORDER BY displayorder ASC
24.0.00013709SELECT id FROM ubb_banned WHERE ((ip1 = '34' OR ip1 = '-1') AND (ip2 = '239' OR ip2 = '-1') AND (ip3 = '179' OR ip3 = '-1') AND (ip4 = '228' OR ip4 = '-1')) AND NOT (ip1 = '-1' AND ip2 = '-1' AND ip3 = '-1' AND ip4 = '-1')
25.0.00047612SELECT fid, type, name, fup, status, private, userlist, password FROM ubb_forums WHERE private != '5' AND private != '3' AND private != '2' AND userlist = '' AND password = '' AND status = 'on' ORDER BY displayorder
26.0.00013590SELECT themeid, name FROM ubb_themes
27.0.00086904SELECT name, template FROM ubb_templates WHERE name IN ('functions_bbcode', 'functions_bbcodeinsert', 'functions_smilieinsert_smilie', 'functions_smilieinsert', 'viewtopic_reply', 'viewtopic_quickreply', 'viewtopic', 'viewtopic_invalid', 'viewtopic_modoptions', 'viewtopic_newpoll', 'viewtopic_newtopic', 'viewtopic_poll_options_view', 'viewtopic_poll_options', 'viewtopic_poll_submitbutton', 'viewtopic_poll', 'viewtopic_post', 'viewtopic_post_email', 'viewtopic_post_site', 'viewtopic_post_icq', 'viewtopic_post_aim', 'viewtopic_post_msn', 'viewtopic_post_yahoo', 'viewtopic_post_search', 'viewtopic_post_profile', 'viewtopic_post_pm', 'viewtopic_post_ip', 'viewtopic_post_repquote', 'viewtopic_post_report', 'viewtopic_post_edit', 'viewtopic_post_delete', 'viewtopic_post_attachmentimage', 'viewtopic_post_attachment', 'viewtopic_post_attach_noborder', 'viewtopic_post_attimg_noborder', 'viewtopic_post_sig', 'viewtopic_post_nosig', 'viewtopic_printable', 'viewtopic_printable_row', 'viewtopic_multipage', 'viewtopic_post_attachment_none', 'viewforum_rules', 'viewtopic_post_blog', 'viewtopic_post_rpg', 'viewforum_mpn_info', 'viewtopic_next_prev_links', 'viewtopic_captcha', 'css', 'error', 'footer', 'footer_querynum', 'footer_load', 'footer_phpsql', 'footer_totaltime', 'header', 'message', 'meta_tags', 'shadow', 'shadow2')
28.0.00023580SELECT t.tid, t.fid, t.subject, t.views, t.replies, t.closed, t.topped, l.uid as lp_uid, l.username as lp_user, l.dateline as lp_dateline, l.pid as lp_pid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid WHERE t.tid = '66140'
29.0.00016594SELECT * FROM ubb_forums WHERE fid='74' AND status='on'
30.0.00013399SELECT code, url FROM ubb_smilies WHERE type = 'smiley'
31.0.00008297SELECT find, replace1 FROM ubb_words
32.0.00016403SELECT id, title, posts, stars, allowavatars, avatarrank FROM ubb_ranks
33.0.00018191UPDATE ubb_threads SET views = views+1 WHERE tid = '66140' LIMIT 1
34.0.00234699SELECT COUNT(pid) FROM ubb_posts WHERE tid = '66140'
35.0.00964403SELECT t.tid as t_tid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_threads o ON o.tid = 66140 LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts x ON x.tid = o.tid WHERE l.dateline < x.dateline AND t.fid = '74' ORDER BY l.dateline DESC LIMIT 1
36.0.00898886SELECT t.tid as t_tid FROM ubb_threads t LEFT JOIN ubb_threads o ON o.tid = 66140 LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts l ON l.tid = t.tid LEFT JOIN ubb_lastposts x ON x.tid = o.tid WHERE l.dateline > x.dateline AND t.fid = '74' ORDER BY l.dateline ASC LIMIT 1
37.0.00025606SELECT vote_id FROM ubb_vote_desc WHERE topic_id = '66140'
38.0.00260496SELECT pid FROM ubb_posts WHERE tid = '66140' ORDER BY pid LIMIT 60, 30
39.0.00029683SELECT * FROM ubb_attachments WHERE pid IN('625568', '625578', '625612', '625653', '625843', '625875', '625880', '625887', '625915', '626118', '626219', '626266', '626268', '626296', '626303', '626463', '626483', '626597', '626604', '626605', '626621', '628878', '628892', '628946', '628952', '628956', '628959', '628961', '628987', '629041')
40.0.00403690SELECT p.*, m.*,w.time FROM ubb_posts p LEFT JOIN ubb_members m ON m.username = p.author LEFT JOIN ubb_whosonline w ON p.author = w.username WHERE p.fid = '74' AND p.tid = '66140' ORDER BY p.pid ASC LIMIT 60, 30