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Author: Subject:  2443 Twin turbo street bug project, back on track again.
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posted on December 22nd, 2011 at 01:59 PM



.24 you wish....Ihave a small quantity of nos .34mm type 4 shims. They aren't perfect with some corosion marks, but the clean up fine with a little TLC. Your welcome to however many you'll need.



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posted on February 20th, 2012 at 06:45 PM



Update.

I've had some success and another MAJOR setback.

Thanks to Matt supplying shims I've had the crankshaft and cam drive gear modified so the end float is now configured to work off the number 3 main while using end float shimms each side of the thrust bearing to position the crank and set the end float.

The setback...

My LN engineering nickies and Je pistons arrived today finally. But initial inspections revealed they had drilled the head stud holes incorrectly. The positioning of the spacing is out 90 degrees so nothing lines up. I've measured the pistons too, and because they are configured to work in a Nikasil cylinder with a 1.5 thou clearence they are too big for an iron cylinder (only 3.1 thou) so I can't use them either! So thats 3 months of waiting for parts down the drain.

I'll not post up a bunch of swearing to express how pissed off I am. Safe to say though that I am now pretty much sick of air cooled engines.

I am now waiting on a reply from LN to see what they want to do about their screw up. I really don't want to wait another 3 months.

I am seriously considering selling all my performance aircooled parts and buying a modified WRX engine instead. The car is already setup to handle a moden EFI engine, so with a dry sumped EJ20 I think I could have a better result in the long run.
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posted on February 20th, 2012 at 07:26 PM



Oh dear! good luck mate, I must say I liked the idea of the big twin turbo bug motor!



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posted on February 21st, 2012 at 01:08 PM



Sorted out this latest issue last night with LN engineering. They were very appoligetic and are endevouring to have a good set of barrels over to me in about 4-6 weeks.

Machining issues aside, they really are beautiful cylinders. The surface finish is flawless. The JE pistons are quite a step up on a CP or a wiseco as well. The surface finish appears much smoother.

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posted on February 21st, 2012 at 04:28 PM



I've got JE pistons for my 2.7 type 4 as well. Very nicely made and light for a big piston(105mm). Got mine off jake raby with Hpc coating on crowns down to ring land. Will be buying some total seal rings to suit but for barrels nickies are out of the budget as I can't afford the 3.5k plus or whatever it was to get them in 105!!

Hopefully this time they will be all good mate. Persist with it your almost there!!

Cheers brennden




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posted on February 21st, 2012 at 06:50 PM



I know how you feel Ian., we just received the wrong crank after waiting 6 months for a custom order, also from a top supplier:td::td::td:... keep at it mate, you know that there's nothing like a fast air cooler.....



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posted on May 12th, 2012 at 02:52 PM



Update. - Progress at last.

The engine bottom end is now assembled. The number 3 main thrust setup is in and I think it looks pretty good. It required a few basic modifications to get it to all go together.

First, the case. I fitted two dowels to the side of the case that normally doesn't have dowels. These allow me to use the number 2 split main steel back bearing in the number 1 thrust position (both sides of the case locate a bearing half with a dowel, and crush). The number 3 dowel is positioned so oil from the main bearing saddle injects directly through the hole in the bearing, right to the crank.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0669.JPG

This is the modified crankshaft snout. The step cut into the front counterweight supports 3 x type 4 thrust shims, with 8 thou of crank step proud of the shimms.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0670.JPG

This is the assembled thrust setup. The straight cut gear has also been machined with a step, and carries 3 T1 thrust shims. The main bearing was machined a little to widen the oil channel in the back of the bearing too. End float is set at 4 thou.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0671.JPG

Here's the setup in the crankcase. Visually it seems to work great. Rotating the crank I could see the shims against the bearing didnt move, but the other two shims appeard to move at 1/2 crank rotation speed almost as if it were a gearbox. Just like I'd read the standard setup is intended to work.

With oil pressure in the bearing, and oil being able to escape under pressure through the shims it should work very well.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0675.JPG

My replacement Nickasil cylinders arrived from LN engineering last weekend, and I have performed a pre-assembly of the top end. Everything fit together perfectly this time, although I need to shave 0.015" off the tops off the crowns of the pistons to achieve my 0.040" deck height. I'll be having this done next week, so next weekend the top end goes together, followed by finally putting the engine back in the car!

Realisticly I am aiming for 4 weeks to startup. I still have a few more little modifications to be done to intake manifolds, and the exhaust setup too.
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posted on May 20th, 2012 at 05:51 PM



More progress.

I spent most of the weekend completing the assembly of the engine to long block stage. The main challange was making some barrel shims to get the deck height correct. I ended up with a 0.045" deck height. With the 20cc dished pistons and 54cc combustion chambers this makes an 8.46:1 compression. This should make the engine plenty potent enough off boost to drive now.


http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0688.JPG

Here's a picture of how much thicker the nickies are than a conventional 94mm bore. The dull inner ring on the end of the cylinder shows the sealing area where the cylinders have been lapped into the heads. They are 104mm OD vs 101.12 of a normal iron cylinder.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0697.JPG

A close up of the work that Dave Butler did for me. The cylinder heads were opened up to 104mm and then the head studs were moved diagonally outwards 2mm from the center of the bore. Dave also cut a 0.5mm step off the outer edge of the cylinder head sealing area. This is to maximise seal/clamping pressure of the nickie to the head with the same sealing surface area as a iron cylinder. Also to to prevent the cylinder being held up in the outer edge of the cylinder especially where the old stud holes are.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0690.JPG

Heads on.
http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0691.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0694.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0695.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0699.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0701.JPG

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Nikasil2443/DSCF0704.JPG

I am currently re-working my porsche fan srhoud with some alloy sheet metal to better channel air through the heads and nickies. Hope to make more progress mid week if work permits.
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posted on May 20th, 2012 at 06:10 PM



Great work Ian, looks sweet. Question; how do you get the timing gear off the crank with your #3 endfloat set-up?



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posted on May 20th, 2012 at 06:28 PM



Hi Matt.

End float was set at the machine shop. I used 3 shims each side of the bearing, 6 total.

Crankshaft position was first set to center the rod journals over the center of the cylinder bores. Then the rear counterweight was machined for the T4 thrust shims to set a 0.000" clearence against the thrust bearing.

The straight cut cam gear was finally machined to hold 3 more T1 shims, and the end float was set by the final cut on the cam gear.

Im not sure how they did the machining on the gear because the 8640 chromoly gear steel combined with the intermittent cut would have been a bitch to machine in a lathe. Sorry but I forgot to take pictures of the gear before putting it together. Its basically the same thing as what was done to the crank though.
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posted on May 20th, 2012 at 06:43 PM



I agree, would have been a pain to machine.
I was meaning though, there is no room now to fit a VW gear puller under the timing gear as now there is a full shim pack there. Thought maybe drilled and tapped the gear and modified the puller or something to actually remove the gear from the crank. If not during trial assembly, at least in the future this will be required.




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posted on June 12th, 2012 at 05:17 PM



Ah, yes you are right Matt. But have you ever pulled the cam drive gear and not replaced the main bearings at the same time? I'll mod my gear puller to fit on the bearing side of the thrust shims, and pull from there. It will destroy the bearing but thats ok.

Here's the latest. I've put a lot of effort into making the whole setup easier to work on. As anyone with a turbo bug will know, you have to put the engine in the car and then build the rest of the turbo system around it. This setup can be fitted and removed easily in one piece, with just the removal of the 4 main bolts.

The header is nearly finished. I just need to attach an external 44mm wastegate, which will be on the drivers side of the car. The wastegate exhaust will plumb back into the 3" dump from the right side turbo. I am really happy with how it worked out. Each turbo is attached ith a V-Band clamp to the header, and takes only seconds to remove to allow rocker cover access. I've got a fancy 3" in/out aluminium muffler on order too, to replace the steel ones I was using. The new muffler is larger and also weighs less that 1KG! The right side turbo will always be muffled. The left side is going to blow straight out a 3" pipe which is going to be nice and loud. But as this turbo is only operating under full load and above 4000 rpm, this should be fine. It might even pass a noise test, since they are done at 2500 rpm with no load.

The intake manifolds and plenum are just sitting there for the moment. I am having extra bungs welded on the plenum, so that I can use an Idle speed control valve with the new setup.

I've gone to a lot of effort to get everything to seal up perfectly. All joins in the fan shround and tinware (aluminium), have a rubber seal in between. I've used nut inserts into the alloy. There are 4 plates that lock in place around the exhaust outlets and press against the block. These actually hold the carbon 911 shroud down and in place.

I've done away with the conventional strap to hold the 993 alternator/fan in place, and have 3 x 12mm high tensile bolts holding it down to the alternator mount. This looks a lot cleaner in my opinion.

The ends of the fan shround above each head were completely opened up. This area is always a pain in the ass to get to seal on the comp eliminator style heads so I came up with something new. Ive now got 2 x 8mm studs that come out from the webbing on the head between the exhaust ports and the intake manifolds. These hold a shaped alloy plate with rubber seal in place, and press it firmly against the shroud. There are no spark plug holes at all. I will notch the shroud to allow the plug wires out of the shroud, and am using 90 degree plug fittings on the MSD leads. Again, much cleaner, plus it seals.

I've revised the fuel system considerably. The Holly black will feed a surge tank that is to be mounted at the back of the car, via 3/8th hose, and return to the tank via a fuel cooler mounted in the middle of the front suspension bars. The surge tank will have twin 910 pumps feeding each rail and returning centrally to the aeromotive FPR, then returning to the surge tank. This is a bit big for BP98 fuel, but will be perfect for E85 in the future.

Excuse the phone quality picture. I'll take better pictures when the setup is finalised.

http://users.on.net/~iswinkels/Hosted/Engine/11062012062.jpg

Thats all for now.
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posted on June 12th, 2012 at 05:35 PM



:crazy: Fu@KKKKKKK. Man that is Nice!!



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posted on June 12th, 2012 at 06:01 PM



Great lateral thinking to deal with so many challenges ... kudos to you



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posted on June 12th, 2012 at 07:41 PM



Jeezus you blokes are so lucky to have Dangerous close and handy to perform so many miracles.It's coming along really good-well done.
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posted on June 12th, 2012 at 08:07 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by nbturbo
Jeezus you blokes are so lucky to have Dangerous close and handy to perform so many miracles.It's coming along really good-well done.


Ian did most of the small details himself, since he lives 2000km or so north of me.
I only had a small hand in the head and case machining,
and the occasional sounding board.




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posted on June 12th, 2012 at 08:16 PM



And quite a useful sounding board you are Dave! I couldn't have come this far without your advice and expert machining skills.
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posted on June 13th, 2012 at 08:05 AM



Looking good Ian!! Man after my own heart with making everything fit nice and uncluttered and clean!! We did the same with troys Porsche fan when it was in the type 3. Ditched the strap and countersunk bolts into the fan housing with nylocks through the alternator stand mount. Looks far cleaner and a lil less weight as well. Can't wait to hear it run!!



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posted on June 13th, 2012 at 10:56 AM



Looks awesome Ian, I know what you mean but like you I now can get mine out of the car in one unit although getting one of the 4 bolts is very tight.
Can you tell me where you found the aluminium muffler?
Thanks
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posted on June 13th, 2012 at 12:48 PM



Here you go Heath:

http://importevolution.com/product_info.php?products_id=4624 

They do 3", 3.5" and 4" too which is handy. The rule of thumb is 1" / 100kw atw. Titanium would have been nice too, but are impossible to come by inless you want to chop up a $1500+ jap import exhaust. This was the next best thing, and the weight is right at 0.9kg.

Much better than a 15KG stainless steel muffler more suited to some big bore v8. I'd be willing to bet that my new header and exhaust will save me 15-20kg all up.
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posted on June 13th, 2012 at 06:30 PM



Holy s--t there well priced. Only problem is that my whole exhaust is only 1.5 feet long and I am only expecting around 300hp at the wheels so 3" might be a little large.
Do you think I could get away with it?
Pictures here on page 7

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=31777&page=7#pid895053 

I could just run the pipe and 180 degree the pipe and exit it through the muffler.

The plus is that I should be able to just hang it off the turbo housing without all the crazy mount that the stainless one needs.
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posted on June 13th, 2012 at 08:13 PM



Go 3" for sure and no its not too large the less back pressure on the system the better.

The muffler has a 5" OD and is 14" long. This might be an issue under the guard for you as its a tight fit under there. An oval shaped muffler fits a lot better under stock fenders. Your car's looking great too!
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posted on June 13th, 2012 at 09:42 PM



Thanks Ian, goes of to the panel shop in 2 weeks to have the body finished off.
I thought maybe of running it up out the turbo straight through the muffler and run the pipe under the irs arm and exit it infront of the passenger rear wheel.
This was the original way I was going to do it but I changed when I found the muffler with the inlet and outlet on the same side. Any ideas.
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posted on June 14th, 2012 at 05:47 AM



Troy had 400mm of exhaust from the turbo to tailpipe. No muffler just straight out the turbo with screamer pipe on external wastegate!! Was a bit noisy at idle but once on full boost it wasn't that bad!! 3" pipe with no restrictions lol



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posted on June 25th, 2012 at 06:38 PM



The latest progress.

No longer just a mock up assembly, the engine is now finally back together. All oil supply and scavenge lines are connected. The primary exhaust header is now 100% finished.

I ended up being able to use the internal wastegates in the turbo's, which is a nice weight saving for the whole setup, although I certainly can't lift the whole engine as it is at the moment.

Just wiring to do tomorrow and then it goes back in the car.

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posted on June 25th, 2012 at 08:05 PM



unbelievable!

:tu:

:smilegrin:




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posted on July 16th, 2012 at 05:16 PM



Very nice.
Do you mind sharing what size turbos you are using?

I've been thinking abount building a twin turbo t4 for a while now and using a set of 2jzgte turbos with the sequential valve setup.
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posted on July 16th, 2012 at 06:47 PM



Im using Greddy/Trust GTR spec T517z turbo's with 8cm housings. I believe they are Mitsubishi cored turbo's. They are a bush bearing turbo, and oil cooled only. They are rated at 350hp a piece, and are classed as a responsive turbo on a 2.6lt. Nissan GTR engines run them in parallel.

Flow maps compare then to a Garrett GT3040R with an .82 housing, so once on boost they will flow enough air to make ~400hp to the tyres at around 1.5 bar, yet also be very unrestrictive in top end which will aid in exhaust flow and keeping EGT's at the lower end of the scale.

Their equalivent garret turbo would be the GT2860-5 which is a water cooled ball bearing turbo.

The 2JZ setup is very heavy and not at all adaptive to a flat 4.

http://www.rx7club.com/attachments/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/43488...

My valving setup for the sequential operation is pretty experimental and more closely resembles the subari liberty setup where the valving for the second stage turbo is on the hot side of the manifold. I'll share some more details about it if it works.

The latest is that the new intake manifold setup is all finished and is now installed on the engine. I have to get a couple more bungs welded on for pressure take off lines, but thats it really.

I am hoping to start the car this weekend. All that remains is changing the oil in the dry sump tank, and completing the hookup of the high pressure side of the fuel system.
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posted on July 17th, 2012 at 04:19 PM



Thanks.
Please share more details once you have it running properly.

The 2jzgte turbos should be sized fairly good for a big type 4. On the toyota engine they are actually a little too small and run out of boost from about 5500rpm. With the sequential valves open permanently, the toyota archives full boost around 2500rpm. I've got a set of real nice 2jz turbos, thus the reason for looking into them. :) Otherwise, maybe a single GTX3076 Garrett. :)
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posted on July 20th, 2012 at 09:32 PM



Update!

Fuel system nearly finished.

Exhaust sytem finished.

Oil system cleaned, re-filled and primed. Dam I love this dry sump setup! I can get 75psi of oil pressure through the engine with a drill driving the pump.

Just electrical to re-check tomorrow. Fuel pumps to wire, and some minor electical alterations. Hope to be starting this weekend!

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