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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 08:31 AM
help me build Danielles new engine.
as it says, I need help to spec up a new engine.
Danielle got her type 3, complete with knocky engine and spare car with a good running engine, when I resealed the new engine, I discovered it wasnt
as new as we got told, but its still going in anyway, because its still better than what is in there, also it shouldnt leak anywhere near as much oil
however, once the engines are swapped, the current knocky engine is getting pulled down and rebuilt properly this time, which is where I need
everyones help.
Will be keeping the engine setup fairly standard externally, stock carbs, probably stock exhaust, and as it will be a daily driver, will still need to
be reliable and economical. as I see it, the best thing would be to build a little larger capacity in so it wont be working as hard, and wont need to
thrash it to get along in traffic.
Planning on getting new heads and pistons, crank will be determined upon inspection of the current item.
so in a nutshell: (currently twin carb 1600cc)
1: whats the biggest P+B that can be fitted without machining te case? also advice on what is better.
2: longest stroke useable, again preferably without clearancing the case? (if stock crank is not useable, might as well stroke it)
3: will conrods need to be changed, keeping in mind it wont be a high revving engine? (is using stroker crank)
4: Heads? if it needs them, are there any particular easily available, affordable (cheap) ones that are better??
5: What cam (if not stock) will give a good, stock type powerband, taking advantage of the bigger capacity.
6: also any other general issues/weaknesses when building an aircooled Vw engine.
again, bear in mind we will be looking for a stock driving type of engine, but fo something needs to be changed, its a good time to upgrade
thanks for any input in advance, it will be appreciated.
(I am a mechanic by trade, so screwing it together wont be an issue)
Danielles beetle is back of the road for its makeover, and I got the job of project manager/head mechanic/artistic advisor/ideas man.
and somehow she got a type 3, which is all good, because I got 'Victa' the 'spare parts Type 3'
bond
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 09:24 AM
1:
1600CC 69MM X 85.5MM = stock
1641CC 69MM X 87MM = biggest without machining case
1776CC 69MM X 90.5MM machine case - stock crank
1835CC 69MM X 92MM machine case - stock crank
1916CC 69MM X 94MM machine case - stock crank
2: should you stroke it and machine the case:
2027CC 78.8MM X 90.5MM
2095CC 78.8MM X 92.0MM,
2110CC 82MM X 90.5MM,
2161CC 84MM X 90.5MM,
2187CC 78.8MM X 94.0MM,
2180CC 82MM X 92.0MM,
2234CC 84MM X 92.0MM,
2275CC 82MM X 94.0MM,
2332CC 84MM X 94.0MM,
3: conrods shouldn't need to be changed if you keep the crank stock 69mm. if you stroke it then they will.
4: keep the stock heads - they will require machining also to suit the larger cylinders - they wont if you go the 87mm kit and go 1641cc.
5: if you want a little more than stock go something like an engle 110.
6: cooling is everything. if you dont fk with compression etc then you should be fine. keep the compression low in other words for a daily.
i think a 1641 will go fine as daily with a cam. save machining etc. should you want more down the track machine the case and go to 94mm p&c
1916.
hope that is of some help. all parts etc are readily available from suppliers in oz.
nick
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 09:36 AM
If this is your first-ever engine build - and by your questions, I'd say that it is - rebuild it as a stock-crank 1640cc and add a set of extractors
and a 009 distributors. It will go together easily, go nice and not cause you any heartbreak
Pay your debts, CxxT
1500S
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 10:57 AM
"Keep your 205 vacuum advance distributor! If your vacuum chamber gets a leak, you'll have to order a new chamber. As XXXXXXXX points out, the 009
does not work well for around town driving. The fact that most VW parts places only carry the 009 shows how little most suppliers understand.
Mechanical advance is a full race item (unless you don't care if your car runs crappy)."
The above statement is from a US builder from memory. Maybe right, maybe not. Worth thinking about if it's a normal daily driver car.
DH
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 01:08 PM
ithink there used to be some slip in 88mm p&b,s dunno if there is still any around they had some sealing issues but a well built motor with plenty
of care taken should solve most dramas. a little 76mm stroker with long rods would make a sweet motor maybe forged 85.5 X76 = 1745cc
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
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pete wood
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 06:13 PM
1640, engle 110 cam, extractors. simple, easy and not likely to screw up. With your twin carbs it sould go really nice. If you want to go crazy with
this get the heads lightly ported and polished and a counterweighted crank/full balance for all moving parts. THis can be uprated later on with some
ratio rockers and bigger carbs for more power.
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 10:04 PM
a 1640cc with a engle 110 would be next to useless , it wouldn't pull the skin off a custard
VWCOOL
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posted on April 11th, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by 1500S
"Keep your 205 vacuum advance distributor! If your vacuum chamber gets a leak, you'll have to order a new chamber. As XXXXXXXX points out, the 009
does not work well for around town driving. The fact that most VW parts places only carry the 009 shows how little most suppliers understand.
Mechanical advance is a full race item (unless you don't care if your car runs crappy)."
The above statement is from a US builder from memory. Maybe right, maybe not. Worth thinking about if it's a normal daily driver car.
DH
I've had and seen 009s on 'daily' style engines (1500s, 1600s, 1640s, 1916s) since the early 90s and have one on a stock 1600 with twin carbs
(Kadrons) right now. Runs beaut. I don't trust too much 'info' out of USA...!
Pay your debts, CxxT
dangerous
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posted on April 12th, 2008 at 07:26 AM
Reserve some of your budget on making sure the carbs are in great shape,(rebushing throttle shafts if required),
and have it tuned under load with a probe in the pipe.
This will ensure that poor mixtures, and the over-heating and damage it causes,
wont destroy the new combo...what ever engine it is you choose.
Quote:
Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
Rota_Motor
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posted on April 12th, 2008 at 09:01 AM
thanks for the help guys, this isn't my first engine build, have screwed together V8's, diesels and late model twincams, attention to detail seems
to be the best way to not kill the engine. but this is the first build where I am speccing the build, and there is such a huge range of hugely
oversized bore and stroke combinations readily available, and relatively easy to do (I cant imagine any other engine going 8.5mm overbore with such
relative ease.
it seems, to keep things simple, it will end up as stock bottom end with 87mm pistons, probably new cam and followers, type 3 twin carbs and standard
exhaust. everything throughout the engine will be checked and replaced/rebuilt/reconditioned as necessary.
as for the dizzy, the engine in the car has an original vac style dizzy, the interim engine has a 009 in it, and I think we have another of each in
the spare parts that came with the beetle, so I will mix and match to see what works better. but I have driven a few cars with split/disconnected
vacuum pots (not VW) and they always run better after the problem is fixed.
one other thing, is it worth getting a deep sump for increased oil apacity, and/or an external oil cooler for such a mild engine, considering we live
in the middle of the desert, but there isnt much stop start traffic, and nowhere is more than a 15 minute drive away. (maybe 20-30 minutes to the
airport or dragstrip)
once this engine is built, I will then be investigating some big bore/stroke combinations for her project beetle.
around 2 litres sounds good, but that a discussion for another time.
Danielles beetle is back of the road for its makeover, and I got the job of project manager/head mechanic/artistic advisor/ideas man.
and somehow she got a type 3, which is all good, because I got 'Victa' the 'spare parts Type 3'
VWCOOL
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posted on April 12th, 2008 at 02:46 PM
I reckon the best help you can give your cooling system is to make sure there are no air leaks; the foam seals etc all perish after 30 years and
tinware/ducting can get bent allowing air to escape. With only a mild increase in output, there is no need for more/extra cooler
Pay your debts, CxxT
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posted on April 12th, 2008 at 06:09 PM
thanks VWCOOL, will just ensure all the standard cooling system is in iptop shape, its just I expect it would be easier to increase the cooling while
everything was out.
also, easiest way to add a real life oil filter?? I know youre all going to say just change the oil more often, but a big reason to reseal the
temporary engine is Danielles nglect to check the oil, let alone change the stuff when it needs it (or tell me to do it at least)
Danielles beetle is back of the road for its makeover, and I got the job of project manager/head mechanic/artistic advisor/ideas man.
and somehow she got a type 3, which is all good, because I got 'Victa' the 'spare parts Type 3'
Joel
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if ur building anything more than a stock motor honestly dont bother with a standard exhaust
any performance mods u do to it will be fairly pointless if restricted by a stock muffler
vws are naturally undercarbed and over exhausted motors to increase engine life
one of the easiest ways to wake up a stock engine is to dump the stock muffler for extractors and improve the intake, obviously not as bigger issue
with twin carb type3s
stock mufflers are too restrictive even for stock motors
dont be fooled into thinking that an extractor system means living with an abnoxiously noisy car
i have a thunderbird quiet pack on my car its quieter than a pea shooter exhaust and has a much sportier note, not to mention the performance/milage
gains and "allegedly" running cooler
re the slip in 87/88s
also not really worth the effort
for the 60cc u gain that u wont really notice u then have to live with thinner wall non oem cylinders that are gonna run hotter and not seal as well
as good ol mahle jobbies
