| [ Total Views: 831 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 69780 ] |
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 Rota_Motor
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| posted on June 12th, 2008 at 08:54 PM |
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timing a type 3 009 dizzy
sorry guys, tried to search but cant find sweet jack all in relation to timing a 009 dizzy.
will be changing complete engine and gearbox assembly in Danielles type 3 on the weekend, trying to set it all up running before I slip it in. so far
so good, but going to give it a tune first while its all easy access.
stock 1600 twin carb type 3 engine fitted with bosch 009 dizzy, is it best to set static, idling or certain advance@RPM, please help me out. I'm a
mechanic, and I priobably should use the old vac advance dizzy, but it seems 009s are the way to go, so we'll give it a try first.
Danielle knows what pinging sounds like and will only run premium, so if you tell me too far advanced, it will get backed off. but we do want to
optimise whats there.
Danielles beetle is back of the road for its makeover, and I got the job of project manager/head mechanic/artistic advisor/ideas man.
and somehow she got a type 3, which is all good, because I got 'Victa' the 'spare parts Type 3'
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VWCOOL
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| posted on June 12th, 2008 at 09:30 PM |
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I think they like 7.5 degrees BTDC static on a performance engine, but not sure if the marks exist on the T3 pulley wheel for 7.5 deg...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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lulu94
A.k.a.: Danielle
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| posted on June 12th, 2008 at 09:32 PM |
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Please help, Im desperate to get this engine in and start running on 4 cylinders again, Alice Springs is a small town and i think everyone is staring
to know my VW is rather slow and i hate to give them all a bad rep
1968 pearl white beetle:kiss
1600 engine 
soon to be supercharged 
1970 and 72 Squarebacks 70 soon to be rotor powered |
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on June 12th, 2008 at 10:29 PM |
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set it for 32' total advance .......
should be fully advanced by 1500rpm
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 vw54
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| posted on June 13th, 2008 at 07:05 AM |
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you may have to try a few settings to see hwat runs best on the engine
anyway it will be somewhere between 7.5 and 10 ist may run better on 10
make sure yr carbies are syncronised and set up properly B4 and all the otehr elect bits are working properly as well
dissy cap, rotor button, plugs, leads
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PurpleT3
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| posted on June 13th, 2008 at 09:13 AM |
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Every thing I have read about type 3s and 009s says they are a fairly poor choice for twin carb type 3s. The 009 is not "the way to go" they are
just a cheap one size fits all dissy. If you have a stock SVDA dissy in working order, you are much better off using it.
The 009 will work but tends to give a fairly noticable flat spot on acceleration. If you have to use it, do as Dumone says and time it at no more
than 32deg full advance. Keep increasing the revs until it stops advancing. As there is a reasonable amount of variation in advance curves between
009s, you have to do it this way to start with. Once you have established how much it advances you can then set it up statically in future.
Just remember to block the vacuum port on the left carby if you are using the 009.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on June 13th, 2008 at 10:18 AM |
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Hi
Checking full advance on a Type 3 is a bit of challenge as its hard to mark the 32 degree mark unless you have a timing light with an adjustable
advance feature. On a Type 1 engine I mark the pulley for total advance.
Steve
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Joel
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| posted on June 13th, 2008 at 02:45 PM |
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i drove a 72 notch with a 009 on a freshly built motor once god it was dreadfull
same problem as 1600 beetles fitted with them
terrible flat spot and no pick up
like daimo said u need to time it to full advance and just let the static timing fall wherever which is a mish on type 3s as steve already pointed
out
problem with 009s is they all differ so much i have a few brazilian ones which are all over the place but my german one is like clockwork
if u know how to pick when the timings off u may have to statically set it for 7.5 and tweak it out on the road till its not doughy or pinging
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lulu94
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| posted on June 13th, 2008 at 08:57 PM |
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thanks guys, Ryan here, I'll set it statically to 7.5 BTDC to start with and see how it goes, and while thats happening, I will go over the SVDA
thats in the current engine and maybe slip that in at some stage.
and theres no way its going to feel doughy compared to the 3 cyliner engine thats already in there, even with the SVDA dizzy on it lol.
1968 pearl white beetle:kiss
1600 engine
soon to be supercharged
1970 and 72 Squarebacks 70 soon to be rotor powered |
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Pastit
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| posted on June 14th, 2008 at 08:58 PM |
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If you don't have access to a timing light then you can run it up to about 3,000 revs (should be full advance by then) and move the distributor round
till you get maximum revs. You can set it by ear and will get you out of trouble till you can set it with a light.
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on June 14th, 2008 at 09:59 PM |
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This is a good thread cause i will have to set this up with my 009
So by getting max revs, you mean keep teh throttle at a certain position without moving, and move the dissy till you get the max revs out of teh
engine from that single throttle position?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on June 14th, 2008 at 11:30 PM |
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Hi
NO,
You set the timing at 32 degrees [30-32]
You will need to mark the flywheel pulley
then with the engine revving adjust the timing with a strobe type timing lamp by moving the distributor until it hits the mark...
and by revving further it won't go past that mark...
30-32 degrees maximum advance is approx 46mm to the Right of the TDC mark...
28 degrees is the Minimum advance...
Engine will run Hot.. below this..
You will need to rev Your engine to obtain the 30 maximum advance... probably 3500RPM so I've read
best to mark the pulley with a file and white pen..
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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1303Steve
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| posted on June 14th, 2008 at 11:52 PM |
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Hi
Setting your timing by ear is bound to end in tears.
If you have a Type 3 pulley hanging around that's not on a motor, measure its circumference and work out how many degrees per millimetre = 32 from
TDC and then make timing scale like I did for a beetle pulleys, see below. I've saved the image from my computer so the size may have varied, but you
should get the idea.
Then do as Lee suggested and make a mark with scriber etc.
Steve
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Rota_Motor
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| posted on June 15th, 2008 at 10:07 AM |
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well, according to the book, type 3 pulleys have 7.5, 10, and 12.5 BTDC marked on them.
the engine is now in and running, but I did set the timing up on the wrong cylinder, so now its setup just so it runs, no sign of pinging so not too
far advanced.
but now I gotta figure out whats wrong with our advancing timing light at work now, it worked last time I used it, but now it doesnt wanna know.
Danielles beetle is back of the road for its makeover, and I got the job of project manager/head mechanic/artistic advisor/ideas man.
and somehow she got a type 3, which is all good, because I got 'Victa' the 'spare parts Type 3'
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Pastit
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| posted on June 15th, 2008 at 09:15 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
This is a good thread cause i will have to set this up with my 009
So by getting max revs, you mean keep teh throttle at a certain position without moving, and move the dissy till you get the max revs out of teh
engine from that single throttle position?
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Yep, if you don't have access to all the bells and whistles in the timing/exhaust analysis/incrementally marked in tenth of degrees pully/tame VW
mechanic/computer configured timing curve duva then it will work and could somebody tell me how it will end in tears?
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Brian
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| posted on June 15th, 2008 at 09:39 PM |
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are , melted pistons , pounded rod bearings etc
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on June 15th, 2008 at 11:33 PM |
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| Quote: | Yep, if you
don't have access to all the bells and whistles in the timing/exhaust analysis/incrementally marked in tenth of degrees pully/tame VW
mechanic/computer configured timing curve duva then it will work and could somebody tell me how it will end in tears?
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Hi
You can do fair job with a 12 volt test light, at least you will get the initial timing close.
You think you can hear it pinking, its the pinking that you cant hear that does the damage.
The "old If you don't have access to a timing light then you can run it up to about 3,000 revs (should be full advance by then) and move the
distributor round till you get maximum revs." works OK with old red motor Holdens etc.
Steve
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Pastit
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| posted on June 16th, 2008 at 06:36 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Brian
are , melted pistons , pounded rod bearings etc
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Why? If the dissy is fully advanced the engine is running best at maximum revs for one throttle setting, have you tried timing by ear then checking
with a light? If it doesn't ping under load then it's OK?
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on June 16th, 2008 at 08:40 AM |
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You must be deaf, so I will shout, YOU CANT ALWAYS HEAR HEAR PINKING
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PurpleT3
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| posted on June 16th, 2008 at 08:51 AM |
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Much easier to just use the stock SVDA dissy, which can be timed statically and works better anyway.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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Joel
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| posted on June 16th, 2008 at 04:40 PM |
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wow this is amusing
once again timing by ear/feel/infinate wisdom is real intelegent....
it may seem to run and sound right and not ping till u get halfway out the road and it heats up enough for u to realise that oops 5 degrees over
advanced hello swiss cheese pistons
or u can have it to far retarded it may sound normal but ur doing just as much damage without even hearing it
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Pastit
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| posted on June 16th, 2008 at 08:22 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by DUB74L
wow this is amusing
once again timing by ear/feel/infinate wisdom is real intelegent....
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So it didn't work when you did it? You did do it didn't you or are you just making it up?
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Joel
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| posted on June 16th, 2008 at 09:03 PM |
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unless u know ur engine inside out and every little noise as to what its doing its not worth the risk no
i had to do a lot of tinkering with timing when i supercharged my engine cos force fed motors need totally different timing under boost than N/A
its about the 8th vw motor ive put toghether but i still played it safe and did the job properly
one of the first things i did when i got my first bug was get a degreed pulley and a timing gun
geez u can get good ones as cheap as $40
cheap insurance rather than playing guess work
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Joel
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| posted on June 17th, 2008 at 09:32 PM |
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ugh... syncronicity seems to plague my life
mate of mine has just got the vw trike hes built on the road
he had to get one of those new mexican engines cos his original engine blew up when they were doing the sound tests
he dropped in tonight cos he said its just not running right
a mate timed it by ear this morning and he said its backfireing now and flatspotting now
when i chucked my timing light on it, its max advance was cranking upto 46degrees
i didnt think a vw engine would even run at that 
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Rota_Motor
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| posted on June 21st, 2008 at 11:04 PM |
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we got a new self advancing timing light at work because the old one was broken when I went to use it after the apprentice. (but he didnt break it
pfft)
I ended up doing the timing by ear, well more until it fired because I initially set it up one cylinder out, so I turned it til it fired and ran, then
until it sounded OK, but it is still very conservative, will set it maybe tomorrow.
oh and for gthe record, the knocking noise in the old engine seems like it was the RHF piston (number 4??) bouncing off the head.
I am trying to get pics up in Danielles (lulu94) members rides thread if anyone is interested.
Danielles beetle is back of the road for its makeover, and I got the job of project manager/head mechanic/artistic advisor/ideas man.
and somehow she got a type 3, which is all good, because I got 'Victa' the 'spare parts Type 3'
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 matberry
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| posted on June 22nd, 2008 at 09:48 AM |
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Sounds great
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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