| [ Total Views: 3780 | Total Replies: 26 | Thread Id: 70082 ] |
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 Mowog
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| posted on June 28th, 2008 at 07:06 PM |
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Why do Beetles catch fire?
Hi all.
Can anyone advise of things to check, or mods to do to ensure a bug doesn't get an engine bay fire? Cracked rubber hoses are the obvious. I heard
from another dubber today that the carb inlet should be replaced with a threaded insert to stop it from pulling out, but I haven't been able to find
out anything about this on the net so far. Thanks. Scotty.
[size=4]A pessimist is never disappointed![/size]
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pod
A.k.a.: paul mrvw061
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| posted on June 28th, 2008 at 07:18 PM |
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i use , copper wire and tie my inlet into place to stop it popping out if it was loose just as a safeguard,around the clamp and around the inlet
protusion on the carby
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Sides
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| posted on June 28th, 2008 at 07:22 PM |
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A big one is to not have anything putting extra load on that carb fitting... having a fuel filter dangling between the fuel pump and carb is generally
a bad idea.
Also check the fuel lines don't rub on anything, and check the condition of them regularly.
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greasykitchen
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| posted on June 28th, 2008 at 09:04 PM |
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Hi Scotty,
the rubber gromet where the fuel line comes out from the fire wall often wear out with vibrations and rubbing leaking petrol on to the hot exhaust
manifold below it. My old bug leaked at that spot once but fortunately without serious consequences. (It also leaked on the forward side of the
firewall at one point.)
There's a saying about VWs: there are two types of Beetles - those which have had an engine fire and those which are about to. So you can't be too
cautious.
Good luck with the resto.
Cheers, Stephen
'76 Golf
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VWCOOL
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| posted on June 28th, 2008 at 09:39 PM |
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Yeah fuel system is a problem due to most VWs' age; replace all rubber lines every 20 years or so (!) because no-one else ever would have!
The rubber lines crack, fail and spill fuel. BOOM!
NEVER install the fuel filter between the pump and carby. If it cracks/fails, the fuel pump will pump raw fuel everywhere... and that's when Shite
Happens
Put the filter up the front, under the tank. Or next to gearbox where you can see it without too much effort
I replaced the rubber fuel lines on a mate's 67 Beetle today, in fact, and the fuel ine from under the petrol tank literally crumbled when I
unbolted/lifted it from its position. The tank had obviously never been removed, so the rubber fuel line was 41 years old.
Plus, the tank was pinholed with rust. Not nice...
HTH
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on June 29th, 2008 at 12:04 AM |
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All the above posts are correct...
always use hose clamps on fuel lines
some fuel hose isn't good quality and cracks in a few years.
and the Fuel filter in the engine bay is BAD..
I have heard of the pipe coming out of the carburetor and fuel pumps
PLUS.. Always carry at least one fire extinguisher
and don't stick it behind the rear seat..
best to mount at least one on the tunnel or next to the door etc.. somewhere they can be grabbed quickly if needed..
another great addition is a pair of small vice grips..
if Your engine does catch fire and the fuel hose melts
the fire will continue until the fuel tank is dry
so, crawling under the front and placing the vice grips on the fuel line under the tank will possibly save your car...
If You have a fuel tap,, just turn it to 45 degrees and the fuel will stop flowing..
many early beetles have burnt because the owner didn't know this...
LEE
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Sides
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| posted on June 29th, 2008 at 08:22 AM |
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Oh yeah - definitely carry a fire extinguisher... in fact carry two, cos you can NEVER carry too much FE.
Make sure they are held down down securely tho - I've seen people just have them sitting in the back seat foot well, which would be dangerious under
heavy braking or in a prang. I bolted mine on both sides just forward of the doors, right where a lot of people put speakers - plenty of room, and
never kicked them even once.
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My toys
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Joel
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| posted on June 29th, 2008 at 10:24 AM |
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main reason as others have already said is plastic fuel filters between the pump and carb or in the engine bay period
ive been looking into electric cut off solenoids for the fuel lines
most ppl dont wanna be climbing under a beetle thats on fire to block off fuel lines or flick fuel taps
best thing u can do is make sure all ur hoses are good quality/condition and have good quality clamps on every joint
and make sure the brass fittings are tight in the carb and fuel pump
one year on the way to valla a mates bug had the brass fitting blow out of the fuel pump and it totally drowned the dissy and the exhaust but by some
fluke of nature it didnt go up in smoke
it was on that dead strip between grafton and coffs and we didnt have a fire extinguisher
god was looking down on that little bug that day
stupid taiwanese fuel pumps...
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 barls
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| posted on June 29th, 2008 at 11:50 AM |
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all these posts and not one mention of the battery shorting out on the back seat when some one sits on it. so make sure you have ether a cover on top
of the battery like a battery box lid or a piece of rubber. also make sure the battery is secure and cant roll forward and short out ether.
oh and the fuel system as mentioned
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Joel
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| posted on June 29th, 2008 at 06:52 PM |
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ditto on the battery vs seat springs
but also seatbelt buckles on the regulator make for a nice smoke show too in 68 onwards bugs
cos nearly all of them are missing the orignal cardboard saftey cover
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vassy66T1
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| posted on June 29th, 2008 at 08:58 PM |
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From experience if you have the old style of fuel pump (i.e. original) with alloy body and brass fittings then throw it away. The new replacements are
a one piece molded body and don't suffer from the same fitting spitting issue.
My 2c from putting a fire out in my '66
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on June 30th, 2008 at 01:17 AM |
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Why beetles etc Don't catch fire....
Just replace all the fuel hoses and fuel pipe rubber grommets
place the fuel filter under the fuel tank or above the LHS rear axle..
use good quality hose clamps and good quality fuel hose
check the engine bay at least weekly for leaks etc..
don't forget to replace the fuel tank breather hose and bypass hose near the fuel filler hose in 1968> beetles
If you can smell fuel, the breather or bypass hose is probably leaking petrol fumes...
which is more dangerous than petrol itself...
the original hoses used by Volkswagen can hide cracks etc
so I prefer plain fuel hose that any crack can be seen..
long before it starts to leak..
For fuel to leak in the engine bay - like when its on fire..
You can stop the supply of fuel by blocking the breather on the tank... or on early models by stopping the fuel cap from breathing.. or turning the
fuel tap to 45 degrees
and carry at least one fire extinguisher..
Lee
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xornge666x
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| posted on July 2nd, 2008 at 06:56 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vassy66T1
From experience if you have the old style of fuel pump (i.e. original) with alloy body and brass fittings then throw it away. The new replacements are
a one piece molded body and don't suffer from the same fitting spitting issue.
My 2c from putting a fire out in my '66
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more often the fitting comes from the carb not the pump. A light centrepunch where the fitting presses in does the trick.
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Mowog
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| posted on July 6th, 2008 at 09:12 PM |
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Hi all.
Thanks for all the advice.
I'm definitely going to lock wire the hose where it goes into the carb, as there is no 'bulbous' end to stop the hose coming off. i might even do
the same to the fuel pump, as the one that's currently fitted is a Brazilian one, (are Brazilian parts really that bad?).
Hey Stephen, I am just changing all the fuel hoses at present - a couple are really rotten & very badly cracked. I'll be taking the tank out
& replacing that one too & fitting a filter. The grommet you mentioned is rotten & all chewed up as well. I think the reason we couldn't
get it to run properly is there is no fuel getting to the accelerator pump, so it dies when you try to open the throttle. I overhauled the carb, but
still have the same problem. I might post a new question & see if anyone can offer advice. Cheers, Scott.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on July 6th, 2008 at 11:46 PM |
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Hi
I have 3 carburetors that are perfect except the accelerator pump doesn't work...
so the car cannot be driven...
idles perfect...
the carburetors were left with fuel in them and when the fuel turns to gunk..
the ball bearing valve in the accelerator pump circuit gets jammed up...
as far as i know there is no way to unblock it....
cheers
Lee
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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greasykitchen
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| posted on July 7th, 2008 at 02:49 PM |
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Hi Scott,
Accelerator pump makes sense. Guess that's what not driving it for a few years will do. For a while I had started the engine regularly and it
revved fine, but then I neglected to do so hence your current problems.
I installed that Brazillian pump and didn't have any issues with it, so I guess they're ok. Might need replacing/overhauling now though.
I remember now that the fuel line/fire wall grommet hadn't failed, but the join near it. All the flexible lines had been replaced during the car's
tenure with me, but I guess they wear out so it always pays to check them.
Cheers
Stephen
'76 Golf
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Joel
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| posted on July 7th, 2008 at 05:07 PM |
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Lee with a bit of persistance u can usually free up the check balls
ive done it once in an old carb i found in a box of vw crap i bought
look like it had been underwater or somthing
covered in the white powdery stuff
check ball was jammed up pretty good
after i cleaned the hole carby up with CRC carby cleaner it was like new again but the check ball i left the carby on its side and filled the whole
diaphram chamber area with carby cleaner for a few hours then hit it hard with the air compressor
freed up ok carby is still on one of my spare engines that often sits for years without starting
worse comes to worse u'll notice the brass fitting inside the float chamber that holds the check ball in is threaded inside
i imagine it canbe pulled out but never tried it myself b4
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on July 7th, 2008 at 05:22 PM |
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Some fuel lines don't last long at all..
so buy the best quality You can...
and check for cracks at every service...
I forgot about the knees in the back seat which will destroy a beetle from the back seat burning...
the engine may escape damage...
but the car will be gutted very quickly...
and i've thought about the seat buckle going under the rear seat too...
I don't have the regulator there any longer, but i do have
some heavy electrical connections there..
but I do have the original cover there..
plus some rubber sheeting
to stop the last two items from happening....
always have a heavy piece of rubber covering the positive battery terminal
[years ago i used a truck mudflap]
or just sitting over the battery iteself... larger the better..
and if there isn't anything covering the regulator under the LHS of the rear seat
You can make up a cover from a plastic oil container [cut up] or virtually anything...
best to screw it in place...
and I have an electric fuel pump mounted under the fuel tank, and when its NOT working, no fuel flows thru
I can also switch the pump off...
safe driving everyone
hope to catch you at Valla-Nambucca heads
Lee
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on July 7th, 2008 at 07:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by DUB74L
Lee with a bit of persistance u can usually free up the check balls
ive done it once in an old carb i found in a box of vw crap i bought
look like it had been underwater or somthing
covered in the white powdery stuff
check ball was jammed up pretty good
after i cleaned the hole carby up with CRC carby cleaner it was like new again but the check ball i left the carby on its side and filled the whole
diaphram chamber area with carby cleaner for a few hours then hit it hard with the air compressor
freed up ok carby is still on one of my spare engines that often sits for years without starting
worse comes to worse u'll notice the brass fitting inside the float chamber that holds the check ball in is threaded inside
i imagine it canbe pulled out but never tried it myself b4
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I'll have to check that out one day
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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greeno72
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| posted on June 10th, 2010 at 08:17 PM |
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most car extinguishers are dry powder and when left in one position for periods of time in a vibrating enviornment powder settles like concrete, when
deployed you get a lot of gas with no extinguishing agent(powder) good habit when you service your car take out the extinguisher turn it upside down
and gently tap the side of it against a solid object (brick wall) and you will feel the powder move
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ernie norley
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 08:53 AM |
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Gday all I dont drink beer but usually carry a tally in the beetle shacken up they create a good foam extinguisher as a back up keep an eye on your
kids or they will consume it on you My daughter put a rod out taking the fuel pump generator and carby with this created a fire of size but she got it
out with only mild damage to engine lid thats when it became a 180b powered baja So she knows carrys ext in all 3 of her cars
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 09:21 AM |
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HI guys. so is it the hose on the carby that slides off? or the actual metal tube pressed into the carby body that comes out?
Is it on the rubber hose we have to worry about? I won't be using a stock carby though, i gotta take a look at my 32 DIS solex's. But would hate for
it to go up in flames any time soon.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on June 11th, 2010 at 03:37 PM |
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Yes its the horizontal 5mm metal tube pressed into the top plate of the carby, feeding into the float bowl.
Some people tap out the hole with a 1/8 tapered npt tap and install a screwed and barbed hose fitting. Or, there are products such as Loctite stud
lock or similiar which can be used to 'glue' it back in if its already out. But the product needs to be resistant to petrol and heat.
Lockwire can be used from the hose clamp back onto a screw on the carb top plate for peace of mind.
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oldskoolguy
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| posted on January 24th, 2014 at 10:52 PM |
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Replacing some of the fuel hoses on the Bug and discovered the dreaded loose inlet pipe on the Solex 30 Pict 2.
Surprisingly easy to pull out by hand!
Anyway, I knurled the inserted part of the pipe and tapped it back in. Seemed solid then.
Finished the job off by s/steel lockwiring the pipe using the clamp and drilling a 1mm hole in the head of a carb screw which I have seen done
before.
Going to invest in another fire extinguisher as well.
Safe travels, Rob.
"The best trophies are stone chips"
1969 1500 Beetle "Otis"
2008 Golf GTI
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bugmaniaar
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| posted on January 30th, 2014 at 08:12 PM |
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All I can say is
Don't rush when you are putting your engine bits and pieces back on and double check, otherwise you will hear what I heard years ago in the
garage.
It went like this...
Yay, engines all back together, quick crank er up.
Turn key, whir whir whir from starter motor...
Woooffff,was that the dog I just heard..no its the car on fire..
Forgot to connect the fuel line from the fuel pump to the carb...DOHHHH.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on January 30th, 2014 at 09:29 PM |
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The fuel inlet pipe is usually pulled out by a fuel filter connected to it, with the weight of the fuel pulling on it.. or bouncing up & down..
one reason why fuel filters shouldn't be in the engine bay..
a fuel tap under the tank is a great idea too...
so, the fuel can be stopped when the engine is on fire fed by fuel from the fuel tank...
stop the fuel and You can stop the fire...
or an electric cut off valve..
or an electric fuel pump under the tank with an off switch
Good thing You caught that fuel pipe..
I'll check mine tomorrow..
although it was OK last time I replaced the fuel hose... and the fuel hose was very tight on the pipe... lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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oldskoolguy
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| posted on January 30th, 2014 at 10:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
The fuel inlet pipe is usually pulled out by a fuel filter connected to it, with the weight of the fuel pulling on it.. or bouncing up & down.
a fuel tap under the tank is a great idea too...
so, the fuel can be stopped when the engine is on fire fed by fuel from the fuel tank...
stop the fuel and You can stop the fire.
or an electric cut off valve..
or an electric fuel pump under the tank with an off switch.
LEE
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The fuel filter is no longer in the engine bay.
My intention is to upgrade with other safeguards as soon as I am able
In the meantime, the checking of the fuel lines is a regular habit for me, and it looks good at the moment.
Cheers, Rob.
"The best trophies are stone chips"
1969 1500 Beetle "Otis"
2008 Golf GTI
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