| [ Total Views: 876 | Total Replies: 16 | Thread Id: 71555 ] |
|
|
 andrewl
Learner Dubber
Posts: 16
Threads: 6
Registered: May 17th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 5th, 2008 at 09:21 PM |
|
|
Power upgrades
Hi all,
I am currently researching a VW based kit car project. I will probably go with a Eureka but am looking at a couple of other options. My problem is I
do not know a lot about air cooled engines. I could go water cooled but this does introduce a whole set issues about locating and installing the
cooling system. I am happy to do this but what I am weighing up is the options available. What I would like to know is with a stock 1600 VW engine
is it possible to get reliable and drivable power in the 130 to 150BHP range. The next question is if that is possible what is the likely cost to
achieve this power range. I would prefer to stay naturally aspirated because forced induction will bring its own set of issues.
Andrew
|
|
|
bond
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2456
Threads: 166
Registered: July 11th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 09:27 AM |
|
|
buy a subaru ej20 or 22 conversion kit from custom vee dub in brisbane - site sponsor also. am pretty sure they do kits with everything you need.
plenty of room in the back of a eureka for it. mick (sinecure) on here has a dbr sabre kit car with an EA81 conversion that goes like the clappers.
if you want reliability, less maintainence and overall cost effectiveness that is.... don't think you can achieve reliablity out of a stock 1600 if
you want to get 150hp out of it.... unless you go forced induction... then $ start to add up.... talk with the boys at custom.
nick
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 09:29 AM |
|
|
Stock 1600 giving 130-150hp - nope - no chance.
Sure you can up the capacity on a Type1 engine (that's what the basic design/layout of a stock 1600 aircooled engine is known as) and get there, but
it's not even close to stock and can cost quite a few $$$ to build one that will last. 1916cc is a popular choice amongst hillclimb'ers, and
they're usually good for somewhere in the 110-130 hp at the wheels. You can go up from there still to say 2276 or 2332 and get up to maybe 160-170hp,
with more $$$ still of course.
Type IV would be another option - that's what 1800 and 2 liter Kombi motor's are known as - and it's common for them to go out to 2.4 liter and get
very good power. Still aircooled, though cost I think would be about the same as a Type 1.
What you're aiming at is A LOT of power in a very light car... for example 160'ish hp at the wheels in a beetle weighing 700'ish kg runs into the
11 second range down the quarter. That's SERIOUS fast - a lot faster than any Ford or Holden - but can guarantee that even 100hp in car as light as a
Eureka will put a big smile on your face.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
bond
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2456
Threads: 166
Registered: July 11th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 09:32 AM |
|
|
dave - my type 4 build is killing me financially - in hindsight i doubt the benefit will exceed the cost.
if i hadnt already incurred a good $6k in sunk costs i personally would have looked at alternatives....
nick
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 09:39 AM |
|
|
Yikes - OK - take back what I said about the cost to do a Type IV then !!!
What Bond says is right about subi engines I reckon - I'm a bit too much of a purist to put one in a Beetle, but for Eureka or some other kit-car,
sure - why not. Subi's are relatively cheap, parts are easily available, most of the solutions to conversion issues are known and they give good,
reliable power.... and being a flat four they even sound right !!!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
bond
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2456
Threads: 166
Registered: July 11th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 09:41 AM |
|
|
agreed. i was a little too much purist to do the same hence went the type 4 option 
live and learn.
|
|
|
rocknrob
A.k.a.: Rob
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 844
Threads: 90
Registered: December 18th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: mystic
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 02:31 PM |
|
|
wot they said.... heres your 150 bhp...
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Subaru-Outback-Liberty-EJ25-engine_W0QQitemZ2202780378...
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 03:54 PM |
|
|
andrewl why do you think you need 130-150hp ?
I've driven a eureka (for a weekend) with around 90hp at the wheels and it was still pulling at close to 180kph. Acceleration was quicker than 90% of
the cars on the road today.
The eureka is light and aerodynamic, so big HP isn't needed to make the car perform.
|
|
|
trickysimon
A.k.a.: Simon Azzopardi
Custom Title Time!
100km/h is only 9 seconds away
Posts: 1473
Threads: 43
Registered: December 15th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Wagga Wagga
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 05:44 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
andrewl why do you think you need 130-150hp ?
I've driven a eureka (for a weekend) with around 90hp at the wheels and it was still pulling at close to 180kph. Acceleration was quicker than 90% of
the cars on the road today.
The eureka is light and aerodynamic, so big HP isn't needed to make the car perform.
|
I want one!!!!!
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on September 6th, 2008 at 08:38 PM |
|
|
u ever seen one?
whilst there one of the better looking kit cars out there theyre still got an ugly arse no matter what tail lights u use...
|
|
|
rocknrob
A.k.a.: Rob
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 844
Threads: 90
Registered: December 18th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Gold Coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: mystic
|
| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 11:04 AM |
|
|
now THIS is as good as it gets for VW sports car(pics courtesy of Wes)
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=58256&page=1#pid553350
|
|
|
andrewl
Learner Dubber
Posts: 16
Threads: 6
Registered: May 17th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 12:44 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought that might be the answer.
Craig I think you are probably right 150 is not necessary but I wanted to know the general view on whether it is achievable. So that leads to the
next question. Is 90-100 achievable?
Joel what can I say other than each to their own.
|
|
|
 barls
A.k.a.: Mr indestructible
Super Administrator
Causer of Chaos and Mayhem
Posts: 9469
Threads: 296
Registered: June 22nd, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: cruising in denistone east
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: indestructible? and listening to the voices
|
| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 03:37 PM |
|
|
the stock t4 2L is 90hp so its easy.
|
|
|
vw54
Super Administrator
Always Waiting 4 Friday
Posts: 16723
Threads: 378
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sunny Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Oval resto ongoing
|
| posted on September 7th, 2008 at 06:39 PM |
|
|
Gee I am glad i didnt buy one in 1976
|
|
|
DUB58
Commited Dubber
Posts: 63
Threads: 5
Registered: August 5th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: North Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 9th, 2008 at 08:58 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by andrewl
Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought that might be the answer.
Craig I think you are probably right 150 is not necessary but I wanted to know the general view on whether it is achievable. So that leads to the
next question. Is 90-100 achievable?
Joel what can I say other than each to their own.
|
Get your 1600 and punch it out to 1916 (cheaper than a stroker) with the right cam, heads, exaust and carbs you will easily get your 100hp+
Like I keep saying its better to beat someone from a set of lights with an aircooled engine, should I say more fullfilling than any other engine you
could what to put in the back of your car!!!
If you drive an aircooled Volkswagen be proud of it and leave the aircooled engine in it!!!
'58 Bug 36hp, 70k original miles + as straight as a die!
|
|
|
andrewl
Learner Dubber
Posts: 16
Threads: 6
Registered: May 17th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 11th, 2008 at 04:19 PM |
|
|
I agree sounds like the way to go. Any idea of the ballpark cost of this
|
|
|
vassy66T1
A.k.a.: Marcus Vass
Veteran Volks Folk
Wow ... are U reading this?
Posts: 2120
Threads: 76
Registered: June 4th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisvegas
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Happy to own a VW
|
| posted on September 11th, 2008 at 06:07 PM |
|
|
$5-6000 is a realistic budget that should get you what you want and maybe a little more.
Talk to Matberry ... he can point you in the right direction.
|
|
|
