| [ Total Views: 1676 | Total Replies: 18 | Thread Id: 75027 ] |
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 RodPenrose
A.k.a.: Rodney Penrose
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 11:49 AM |
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2789CC n/a with 100 hp NOS
I would like to share some of the info that I have learned in the past 3 weeks playing around with the nitrous oxide system . I installed a brand new
NOS brand fogger system on my 2789cc autocraft engine , 86mm x 101.6mm , 15.23 comp , pauter z8 cam with 305 deg @ .050 and 443 lift , 1.25 rockers ,
58mm IDA carbs that has previously run a best 1/4 mile of 10.67 and 6.72 @ 102 on the 1/8 mile .
I am using a 100 hp shot of nitrous and on the dyno 5 days before Portland drags and the engine produced a best reading of 201 hp at the wheels . I
than ran the car with the nitrous and after 3.2 seconds melted one of the Autocraft heads . This mishap occured because of the timing being set at 36
deg. and along with the high comp. ratio was creating way too much heat . The next day the head was welded , machined and the engine completly rebuilt
. I decided to lower the compression ratio to 11.93 by installing some barell spacers . Again on the dyno I ran the car without the nitrous and it now
only produced 184 hp at the wheels . This reading was low as the comp. had been lowered and the timing was reduced to 32 deg. . The Nitrous retard was
not operating in the MSD control box as it should , so I ran the car with 27 deg. timing and only lost .8 of a hp at the wheels .
I than was happy with the tune on the engine and decided to run the nitrous . the car produced 261 hp at the wheels with a 100 hp shot of nitrous and
after back to back identical runs on the dyno I was happy and headded to Portland .
I ran the car for 2 passes without the nitrous and ran a 7.1 and 7.0 at 99 mph . This was down about 3 tenths and 2.5 mph on what the car should have
run , however I had less comp. and less timing . I ran the nitrous for the remainder of the weekend getting to know when to use the button to let it
flow and ended up with a best time of 6.4 @ 108.97 mph .
So in summary on my engine , a 100 hp shot of nitrous oxide made the car 6 tenths of a second faster and put on 9.5 mph . 184 hp at the wheels equates
to almost 240 at the engine and with the nitrous it produces almost 340 hp .
I will run the car in Sydney on March 15 and am hoping that it will run a 9 second pass . I can also adjust the amount of nitrous oxide injected up to
220 hp .
In theory that will give me approx 460 hp on carbs , so we will see , ROD.
More boost + More fuel = More power
1968 Beetle fastest run 8.96 sec @ 161 mph 4th Nov. 2001
2010 New Beetle 8.12 sec on 8th march 2014
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au
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hellbugged
A.k.a.: Daimo Pell
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 11:53 AM |
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cool........ thanx Rod for sharing all that
couple of good shots of your efforts at Portland here.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cQrTDm3GxA
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Stanley
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 01:42 PM |
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seconded....Thanks Rod always interesting to read repots like that. Hope all goes well in Sydney.
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 matberry
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 04:16 PM |
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Thirded....good luck at WSID mate
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 06:27 PM |
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fourtheth. Good work Rod and congrats on the results from Portland.
Now to hear some more results from Portland from those who went....
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 06:30 PM |
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http://www.wallaceracing.com/8th-quarter.php
10.1@135
Should go pretty close Rod.
You can always step up the gas if 100 is not enough.
......yeah step it up.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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sauron
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 08:32 PM |
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Hello everyone, my name is Michael Clark from Melbourne and I ran at Portland 09 in my 68 Beetle (orange/white with lord of the rings mural on the
bonnet). After having a shocker last year destroying the transmission in the first run, I happily made amends this year not only getting through the
weekend without breaking anything but also ran way quicker than I had ever hoped for. Best time 8.034 at 85.55mph 1.595 60ft. I would just like to
thank everyone who made the effort to come to Portland, in especially the interstate guys. A special thanks to Rod Penrose, he is not only an
inspiration but a trully nice guy and of course Craig for all the hard work in putting the event on. We will be trying our utmost to get to Warrick
this year to meet even more of you guys from the forum.
This is my first time on any forum so I hope it works
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 08:42 PM |
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It was good to meet you Michael, and welcome to the forum.
That is an excellent ET and sixty foot time for the mph you ran.
It shows a lot of promise.
Could you share some specs on your motor and new tranny?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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matberry
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| posted on March 1st, 2009 at 09:18 PM |
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Too right Michael, excellent times, what combo have you got there? You must post some pics, the mural on the bonnet I dont remember seeing....my bad
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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 vw54
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Always Waiting 4 Friday
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| posted on March 2nd, 2009 at 04:05 PM |
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Michael welcome to the forum
you have some great experiences and havea wealth of VW knowledge
your car ran great
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davidoconnor
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| posted on March 2nd, 2009 at 07:59 PM |
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Rod,
Can you share some details on your Nitrous set up?
Nitrous jet sizes?, Fuel Jet sizes? Are they squared up or higher on the Nitrous size ie 28N, 22F
What Fuel Pressure? What Nitrous Pressure, warmer?
The information NOS gives always seems to have the system extremely rich, just curious what you ended up with after your dyno work. "Nitrous
Express" system jetting charts seem more realistic and in line with the jet calculators I'v seen, with Nitrous jet larger than Fuel at around 6-7
PSI flowing fuel.
I did one run on Saturday afternoon with the gas on and the car went slower!! Jetting as recommended by the NOS tech guys but no dyno time at this
stage. I ended up running 20n and 22f at 7PSI fuel pressure flowing (rich to be safe, warmer off). Naturally aspirated I ended up with a best of
7.824 and a best MPH of 86.54 seconds. The best 60 foot was 1.693.
Cheers,
DO'C
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Dak-A-Tak
A.k.a.: Peter Page
Custom Title Time!
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| posted on March 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 PM |
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David , good to see you had a little play with gas . I'd check fuel flow first at open system (power comes from fuel side ) take fuel away more power
. Lot of guys make more power with less fuel jet but with more pressure ( A/F ratio was ? 11.2 ) You will hurt parts as much with over rich setup too
.Plugs tell the story , colder plugs plus smaller gap (NGK D9EA about .025) with gas on and timing taken out too .Bottle Pressure ? 900 to 1000psi .
Good work Rod ,should have more yet !
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RodPenrose
A.k.a.: Rodney Penrose
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 06:45 AM |
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David , I have installed a nos fogger system with 4 nozzles , 0ne mounted at the base of each intake runner , just above the mounting flange on the
inside of the manifold . This position was chosen because of space limitations and ease of mounting . I have 1 nitrous and 1 fuel solinoid feeding 2
nozzles via extremely short lines . The shorter the lines the harder the hit . I have only 1 set of jets supplied with the kit and I am not using
these so they may be of use to you . I have had OZ NOS supply a lot of jets and have modified the nozzles to suit these jets . I can now adjust the
amount of hp I wish to use ranging from 25 , 35 , 45 , and 55 hp per cylinder . I was using a .025 jet in Portland for both the fuel and nitrous . I
was running the bottle pressure at between 900/950 psi . The fuel pressure is set at 5 1/4 psi and will drop to about 5 psi when flowing on the dyno
under full load . I tuned the engine with a 12.6 a/f ratio without the nitrous and when under full load on a power run with the nitrous the a/f ratio
went to 10.0 and than after 6-7 seconds of the run it came back to around 10.7 . This is a rich mixture and it was gradually leaning itself off
however rich is good at this stage and fuel economy is not important . I am using a Sunoco Supreme Nos leaded race fuel with a 120 octain rating .
ROD.
More boost + More fuel = More power
1968 Beetle fastest run 8.96 sec @ 161 mph 4th Nov. 2001
2010 New Beetle 8.12 sec on 8th march 2014
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 08:12 AM |
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Great post Rod.
A very interesting read Rod. Thanks for posting it.
It must be nerve-wrecking hitting the NOS button in these expensive engines for the first time? Will the engine fail? Will the drivetrain fail? How
will the car react and will the driver control it.
The mural on Michael Clark's veedub bonnet is amazing. The car is really nice too. A great colour scheme.
Dave O'Connor, did you find out what gremlins caused your beautiful car to run funny in the higher revs? Could the nitros nozzles have anything to do
with it?
CYA CT
esratrams
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Boostn
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 03:49 PM |
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Hey David O,
Your set up sounds rich.
On a low pressure set up we run 4.5-5 psi fuel pressure for petrol.
Bottle pressure at 900-950 psi.
4 sizes smaller on the fuel pill than the gas pill.
And pull some timing out but that depends on your engine, fuel, etc.........
You can run the pills two sizes up but need to play with fuel pressure or bottle pressure or both. A blanket is worth every cent as it will give you a
consistent tune.
VOLLKOMMEN ART
nick@vollkommenart.com
Speed and Style
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colin
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 07:02 PM |
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Very interesting post guys .
Loving the info.
Cheers Col
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davidoconnor
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 07:27 PM |
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Thanks guys, very helpful info!
The NOS book that came with the system is very conservative on the tune. I guess they play it safe on the rich side to avoid angry customers with
burnt engine parts!!
Pete, I did test the system flowing and this showed 7PSI. I've got a cool tool from Moroso that plumbs in after the regulator that normally feeds
the fuel solonoids. All you do is put a jet in this line with an orriface the same size as the total of all 4 in the system and let her rip into a
container!! Some small differences in the PSI at the regulator and the tool, not sure why!
I think the best bet for me is to hit the Dyno again and start playing with jet sizes and fuel pressures with the Bottle warmer on!!
I think you seem close to the mark Nick from what the Nitrous jet calculators say. Time will tell.
Thanks again
DO'C
CT I think it was a voltage problem with my fuel injection that sent all the mixtures all over the place!! Alternator not charging properly. Did a
leak down test and top end seems O.K.
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sauron
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 07:41 PM |
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Matt, the engine is 2332cc, CB big mouth case, 84ml Berg forged crank/billet flywheel, 5.5" carrillo rods, 94ml barrels with slipperskirt
pistons.
FK87 cam, Berg pushrods, and pauter roller rockers. All this is topped off with ported&polished competition eliminator heads and JayCee 51.5ml
IDAs,
the exhaust is a Gene Berg 1 3/4" header/stinger. I'm running a conservitive compression ratio of 9.5:1.
The trans. features a 4.125:1 crown wheel and pinion on a Scat spool, Albins close ratio 3rd (1.39:1) and 4th(1.04:1) hardened keys etc.
I spent lots of time making the transmission stay put with a stress bar across the rear wheel tubs that triangulates down to the rear horns. I will
post pics. as soon as I work out how to do it. Thanks for the interest Michael
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matberry
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 08:35 PM |
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Awsome mate, love the LOTR theme, very close to my lady and I, even our dog's name is Bilbo... Your engine sounds great and same spec as my combo
except I have ported nonwelded vw heads 44x38 and 48's with 1 5/8 exhaust, ran 84 mph at Portland, but you 60's are hot so you definately doing
things right, better start your own thread so we can see the best bits
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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