| [ Total Views: 1174 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 75085 ] |
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 mickmick
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 posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 04:47 PM |
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Electronic Ignition Full System or Points Replacment?
I've got a 1916 Penrose built engine in my beetle and was going to change to elctronic ignition. Is there much benefit of getting a complete
distributorless system or just get the points replacement module? Its a daily driver so fuel consumption is a high priority. I'm going to Vintage Vee
Dub to get a service so they would install it. There was about a $320 difference.
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 vw54
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 04:51 PM |
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get the electronic dissy
Set and forget no going out of tune because of the points closing or burning or sticking together reduces the mechanical factor by 100
percent
If you have a good correct timing spark then depending on how u drive will vary the fuel consumption
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 Bizarre
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 05:05 PM |
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It will take a LONG time to recoup $320 in petrol
That said i have a Scorcher distributor
It is a quality built Bosch based distributor
I have seem the plug pack systems at VVDS but have not heard any reliable feed back - well only really talked to Michael about them
Just mean i dont know any one who has bought one and had it for 2 years
Do i like my Scorcher - 
Value for money 
If i was trying to save money i would stick with points and check regularly
Futue te ipsum!!!
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vw54
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 05:10 PM |
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| Quote: |
If i was trying to save money i would stick with points and check regularly
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crap
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h
A.k.a.: Towely BuMpEr KING! ILLegal ALIEN on a roadtrip
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 05:11 PM |
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i got electronic points thingy in my 009 for my beetle.. been all sweet now for about 3 years.. 
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Grey 57
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 08:12 PM |
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I have a Crane Hi 6 electronic ignition in my Karmann. Best 300 bucks I spent. Even with the standard points, these trigger the unit only, the timing
doesnt move, has fully adjustable soft rev limiter and multiple spark below 3000rpm.
http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=5&prt=130
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matberry
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| posted on March 3rd, 2009 at 08:50 PM |
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Value option is points replacement module IMO
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mickmick
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| posted on March 4th, 2009 at 08:08 AM |
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Ok so is there much benefit changing the whole system or just do the cheaper option and replace the points only? The guy at Vintage told me that
having the 1916 engine there would be a more noticable difference doing the full system swap or was he just trying to sell me the more expensive
option?
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68AutoBug
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| posted on March 4th, 2009 at 10:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
I've got a 1916 Penrose built engine in my beetle and was going to change to elctronic ignition. Is there much benefit of getting a complete
distributorless system or just get the points replacement module? Its a daily driver so fuel consumption is a high priority. I'm going to Vintage Vee
Dub to get a service so they would install it. There was about a $320 difference.
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Electronic ignition will improve Your system...
maybe give You more MPG and more HP...
I'd go for this FIRST..
Having no points - means You No longer need to adjust the timing every few months.
so Your engine electrical timing stays SPOT ON...
So... it IS really worth the money...
I'd go for both....
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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mickmick
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| posted on March 4th, 2009 at 01:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
I've got a 1916 Penrose built engine in my beetle and was going to change to elctronic ignition. Is there much benefit of getting a complete
distributorless system or just get the points replacement module? Its a daily driver so fuel consumption is a high priority. I'm going to Vintage Vee
Dub to get a service so they would install it. There was about a $320 difference.
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Electronic ignition will improve Your system...
maybe give You more MPG and more HP...
I'd go for this FIRST..
Having no points - means You No longer need to adjust the timing every few months.
so Your engine electrical timing stays SPOT ON...
So... it IS really worth the money...
I'd go for both....
cheers
LEE
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Yeah i saw thinking the complete system might be the way to go. Get a more complete burn of fuel so hopefully get a more efficient engine with both
power and fuel. Vintage use the Compu-fire brand, these are pretty good i hope.
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Joel
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| posted on March 4th, 2009 at 06:01 PM |
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best bang for buck is drop in points module
Dis-x systems are good but wasted on stock-mild engines
unless u have lots of headwork, big induction, cam etc u dont really get the full benefit
compu-fire and pertronix are pick of the crop
ive had good luck with both, just keep selling the engines there installed in
got a pertonix ignitor II in my bug atm very happy
was very unhappy tho with empi and accufire crap. ive had failures, my mates have had failures and alot of forum members to
all usually within 6 months too
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Matt Ryan
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 08:14 AM |
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mickmick,
With drop in modules you have to be careful not to leave ignition on when the engine isn't running or they will fry.
If you have to do some work with power on but not running, e.g. electrical testing, remember to pop off the red wire from the module to coil first.
Regards,
Matt.
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mickmick
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 09:20 AM |
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Thanks Matt so the girlfriend can't listen to the radio while waiting for me with the engine off right. She won't be happy about that but she'll
survive 
Joel looking through the receipts my engine has chromemoly push-rods, match ported manifolds to heads, engle w100 camshaft and a set of heavy duty
single valve springs so i'm not sure if thats modified enough for the Dis-x system, what do you think?
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Matt Ryan
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 10:32 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
Thanks Matt so the girlfriend can't listen to the radio while waiting for me with the engine off right. She won't be happy about that but she'll
survive
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You could always wire in a kill switch to the coil. That will allow radio on and testing plus will prevent theft, just put the switch somewhere
inconspicuous.
Regards,
Matt.
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mickmick
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 11:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Matt Ryan
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
Thanks Matt so the girlfriend can't listen to the radio while waiting for me with the engine off right. She won't be happy about that but she'll
survive
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You could always wire in a kill switch to the coil. That will allow radio on and testing plus will prevent theft, just put the switch somewhere
inconspicuous.
Regards,
Matt.
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Thats an even better idea. I'll find someone to do that soon. Just need to find a auto electrcian friend
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Joel
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 06:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Matt Ryan
mickmick,
With drop in modules you have to be careful not to leave ignition on when the engine isn't running or they will fry.
If you have to do some work with power on but not running, e.g. electrical testing, remember to pop off the red wire from the module to coil first.
Regards,
Matt.
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its not just electronic igntion thats suseptible to this
points can easily fry when the ignition is left on for extended periods
| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
rnJoel looking through the receipts my engine has chromemoly push-rods, match ported manifolds to heads, engle w100 camshaft and a set of heavy duty
single valve springs so i'm not sure if thats modified enough for the Dis-x system, what do you think?
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All down to budget and personal prefernce
is the car a daily or a toy?
if just a toy if it was me i'd go for the simplicity of a straight module but others would argue that a dis-x is removing parts possibly prone to
failures and a more modern setup and for a daily might be worth while
whilst its no killer combo, tis certainly worked enough to take advantage of decent ignition setup
as Barry said its also hard to make a decision when there's not much actual user feedback on a product out there
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Joel
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 06:47 PM |
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oh yeah mick what model bug is it?
with the radio connection nearly all 71 on bugs have a feature on the ignition switch like modern cars that sets off a beeper when you open the door
if the key is still in the ignition
you can wire the radio to this
thats what ive done
my radio powers up as soon as i put the key in the ignition and turns off as soon as its pulled out - doesnt have to be turned to ignition
i couldnt wire mine to be live all the time as my headunit has a stand by mode where the buttons stay lit up and the display keeps itself occupied
being very visual with some demo thing when its off which flattens the battery over time
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mickmick
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| posted on March 5th, 2009 at 07:49 PM |
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Yeah Joel its a 68 model thats going to be a daily driver and we do about 25 000km a year so it will get a workout. Maybe the dis-x is worth the cost?
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RodPenrose
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| posted on March 6th, 2009 at 06:55 AM |
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I have been using the comp-u-fire dual coil pack ignition system on a drag racing car since 1994 with extremely good results .I am talking 2400/2800cc
methanol inj. 230 hp engines as well as a 512 hp turbo'd deal . I am also using these ignition systems on all of my street cars as a resonabbly
inexpensive performance system . I have a 1916 cc daily driver with a small oval port head , w 110 cam , 40mm dell's and 8.3 comp . I use E10 fuel
and this thing drives nice . I also have one on a 2387cc in a 74 bus , CNC wedgeport heads , fk 42 cam and 1.25 rockers , and 8.1 comp , it runs cool
and drives without any problems . Just remember that the std vw coil puts out around 22.000 volts and the dual coil system has 60,000 volts . I have
also used the points replacement units without a falure and find these to be a good and reliable electronic module . If you are after a slight
improvement over the stock ignition system I would go for the electronic module as well as the Comp-u-fire 35,000 volt coil as a stater . If your
budget alows you to , I would up-grade to the dual coil system as it is a wasted spark system and very powerful , because if your fuel mixture is a
little on the rich side you will find that it will burn all of the unburnt fuel in the combustion chamber . This will inturn give you a little extra
power and a cleaner running engine , ROD.
More boost + More fuel = More power
1968 Beetle fastest run 8.96 sec @ 161 mph 4th Nov. 2001
2010 New Beetle 8.12 sec on 8th march 2014
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au
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mickmick
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| posted on March 6th, 2009 at 09:20 AM |
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I'm not real sure about mechanics but if i could use E10 fuel it would be good. Just for daily conveniance and costs. On the receipt from when the
engine was done it says premium unleaded recommended. I'm not sure how important the compression is but it says 7.1:1, pistons are Mahle 94mm,
cylinder heads are 040VW match-ported, exhaust valves are 32mm ULP genuine VW, inlet valves 25-6mm ULP TRW and valve springs are Empi heavy duty
singles. There's a whole list of things but i don't know what is relevant and whats not. I guess the more km i do the more justified a dual coil
system would be? I'll ask for a quote for both and see if its do-able.
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mickmick
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| posted on March 7th, 2009 at 10:26 AM |
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Also have Empi quietpak extractors but i'm not sure if my exhaust pipe is too big as its 3 inch pipe? Would i be getting enough back pressure from
the exhaust?
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Joel
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| posted on March 7th, 2009 at 11:07 AM |
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Mick thats a fatboy zorst
maybe overkill slightly but they sound mean
if ur happy with it id leave it
i woulda though ur compression would be higher than 7.1.
car would be a bit of a slug despite the work if thats what was .
stock is 7.5 in most cases and 8.5-9 is around normal for an engine that size
atleast at that low tho u could get some nice boost happening 
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on March 7th, 2009 at 01:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
Also have Empi quietpak extractors but i'm not sure if my exhaust pipe is too big as its 3 inch pipe? Would i be getting enough back pressure from
the exhaust?
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No Back pressure at all....
I have a normal VW muffler and twin pipes 1 5/8 inches
and no baffles etc...
and I have no back pressure....
unless i fit two baffled tail pipes..
LEE
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mickmick
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| posted on March 7th, 2009 at 03:00 PM |
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I havn't had the compression tested but thats what is on the receipt from a couple of years ago. No cash to boost it but it would be interesting
The exhaust is certainly mean, I woul;dn't like to drive to Queensland or anything like that, my engine pops heaps but i think thats more to do with
the tuning. I'll find out after the service on Wednesday. I'll ask there advise about the dis-x system or just points replacement module.
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on March 7th, 2009 at 03:59 PM |
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Mick
If your engine pops on deccelaration (slowing down with the engine), it is often just air leaks in the exhaust system. Check all gaskets and
connections in your exhaust system. I have found that it doesn't need much of an air leak to cause it.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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matberry
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| posted on March 7th, 2009 at 09:37 PM |
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7.1:1 is a bit low, maybe it was built for a kombi, w100 cam too. With compression ratio that low you should be able to run unleaded 91 octane.
Getting the compression tested is not the same as the compression ratio which can only be determined during engine assembly. IMO do not use the E10
fuel, it is ok for an efi engine that monitors exhaust gas, but not for a carb'd engine. You get worse fuel consumption with it anyway! If you do
still need to use E10, you can get your carbs rejetted for it, then you should always only use E10. The carbs popping and spitting is either just the
idle mixtures out of tune, a blocked/dirty idle jet or an inlet manifold leak, and as said before, an exhaust leak can cause backfiring etc..
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 8th, 2009 at 10:23 AM |
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7.1comp and w100 cam................no use having heavy valve springs
how much did the motor cost you ?
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mickmick
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| posted on March 8th, 2009 at 12:08 PM |
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It came with the car which cost me $5500. I think i paid a little too much for it but the girlfriend loved it and it drove well. As long as she's
happy then i'm in the good books which is priceless.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 8th, 2009 at 12:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by mickmick
As long as she's happy then i'm in the good books which is priceless.
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hehe yep, keep them happy !
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