| [ Total Views: 1383 | Total Replies: 22 | Thread Id: 75831 ] |
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 colonel mustard
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| posted on April 7th, 2009 at 08:19 PM |
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1776's I want your ideas!!! :)
Yes, another Jason asking you alot of question/for ideas on streetable performance engines.
standard machined German crank (machined for 8 dowel)
lightened 8 dowelled flywheel
Re-conditioned machined/balanced/re-bushed standard Rods
engle 100/110 cam (want something a bit lumpy but not hugely rough on idle - bad on the cold days..... wait, we dont have cold days here!)
scat lifters
AA mahle 90.5mm piston kit
043/or other- heads cleaned up and match ported
Aluminium pushrods
solid shimmed rockers with swivel feet adj. 1:1
26mm oil pump (decent flow pump)
Mainly not sure about the heads, case and cam.
But really not sure how much advantage I would have with the 1916 over a 1776.... ideas? Im feeling that the 1776 would be better for a daily, and
thats what my car is. no point having it to look at. Dont have enough money for a show car either... so its used, and heck yes, its abused.
Running Jetted Kadrons (with a different linkage kit!!!!)
Yes, for this setup I would be set on the kadrons... and a thunderbird hotdog setup!
I really want it to stay as a daily but want it to have some serious guts... like skyline driver scaring guts.... but sound way down on the low down.
Id love your ideas
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BiX
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| posted on April 8th, 2009 at 09:20 AM |
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I ran a very similar combo. Std but mildly ported heads, w100 cam, extractors and the rest was the same except for twin 40mm dells.
It was a very very sweet combo. Lots of torque, but also a resonable amount of grunt. From my research its all about the combo. The heads have to work
with the cam, have to work with the carbs, hav to work with the..... etc
Best bet is to go and talk to an engine builder, take in your budget and say what you want the engine for. Then i think always add 25% to the cost!
They normally have some combo's that they have built in the past that work very well. If your in brisbane, try Leons Motors and ask him about drews
old 1776 in the white super. Or if you want to build yourself, offer to buy ppl like dangerous a beer on a sat arvo.
The power guess would be about 75 hp at the rear wheels or about 100hp at the fly.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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xornge666x
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| posted on April 8th, 2009 at 08:25 PM |
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get a counterweighted crank too.... not worth spending money on all the other parts to use a std crank.
You will want to rev it, esp with a light flywheel, so may as well go with one from the start.
You can get a pretty cheap 69mm c/w crank now, just have it checked over by a machine shop for tolerances before fitting it.
The non c/w one will at at least flog out the case, if not break in two....
The rest looks like it will work well together for a stout little motor.
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 8th, 2009 at 11:12 PM |
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1776cc........
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=38560&page=1
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BiX
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| posted on April 9th, 2009 at 08:18 AM |
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Personally for a motor with stock heads and only a w100 cam, a well balanced, std crank will be fine. You will be pushing to rev it over 5k. unless
its going to be used on the track a counterweighed crank is wasted on such a small motor.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 9th, 2009 at 08:56 PM |
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Awesome work man. WAAAAAAY to overboard for me... but loooks awesome. Loving the berg gear.
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 13th, 2009 at 07:45 PM |
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any ideas..... really interested in what brand on cylinders people use? Also, Cam reconmendations.
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 13th, 2009 at 07:57 PM |
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mahle brand
cam will depend on many things counter weighted crank or not, compresion ratio, exact specs of heads (valves, port size, spring choice), carburation ,
rocker ratios, exhaust sze and YOUR desired RPM range
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BiX
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| posted on April 14th, 2009 at 06:59 AM |
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Best bet to work out the following
1. Your budget (thats for everything, from building, labour to installation and all the little bits you need but don't think about, ie extra oil
cooler and fittings?, there is a few thou by the times you get it, and install it)
2. Work out what you want the engine for, daily drive, weekend cruiser, weekend fun car, odd track use, dedicated track use.
3. work out what else you need to upgrade for the egnine (gear box old and tired, carbs, oil cooler, engine mouts ok?)
4. are you going to build it yourself? if not, who?
5 talk to them, taking into account the extras
6. get it built or get the parts..........
The big thing is to think package. A 1776 with some midly worked heads, std balanced crank, W100 cam, and some other mods will probably set you back
up to 4k (could be less) assuming you rebuild your exisitng motor all in with everything. If you do it yourself could be allot less. But its a nice
package, with enough grunt to keep up with traffic, realiable if you don't flog it, sounds good.
My first 1776 was similar specs to above, cost about 3.5k for the basic engine (hand over old short block, get back same, ie no tin wear isntalled)
then spend about another 1 k getting all the last pieces in (ie tinware painted, oil cooler, fittings, line) the 3.5k included a very good price on a
second hand set of carbs. I used it for daily and the odd motorkhana/track day. I killed it by flogging on the track.
Next motor cost well into 5 digits, specs included new mag case (PRC regs require mag over alloy), new wegde port heads, new 48 idas, new offset
ground cw crank, ceramic coated etc etc. But it does spin to over 7.5. and develops over 130hp with more to come with better ignition.......
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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Euro_67
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| posted on April 14th, 2009 at 08:08 AM |
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I have a mild 1776 in my 67. It has been a very reliable combo and is about 15 years old and still going strong.
used dual pressure relief case machined for full flow & 90.5s
stock crank & rods
stock fly wheel & clutch
stock heads with solid rocker shafts
engle 110
009 points dizzy
pair Dellorto 45DRLA choked down
Its a great little motor but runs out of puff about 5000 rpm due to stock heads.
match the heads to the cam and you wont be disappointed. I would like some more RPMs from mine, thats for sure.
Not much more cost to go 1916 from here really, just the cost of the 94mm P & C.
A mild 1916 would be a nice tractable and reliable street motor.
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Joel
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| posted on April 14th, 2009 at 05:05 PM |
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BiX is pretty close on the money for those specs
i built mine mid 06 and the grand total came to around $4300
i assembled it all myself and used a new german block plus heads from Jax both ready for 90.5s, so had no machineing to do but it soon adds up
whatever budget you come up with b4 hand always allow another $1K for all the little things that add up you dont think of
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Joel
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| posted on April 14th, 2009 at 05:15 PM |
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if your using your old heads and block tho may as well just go 94mm
theres sweet FA price difference in both the machining and P&Cs
the only reason i stayed 90.5 was i had plans to run boost thro it otherwise i woulda gone 1916 as well
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 14th, 2009 at 10:54 PM |
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well, Im hearing that its all about the package. This might be a silly way to do things. but, Im buying my crank and rods first, then my heads... then
base my p&b size on the best heads that i can find then go from there... because basically i just need to find a case that matches size. Im hoping
to go second hand stuff mainly (on the big items anyway -heads/case) and just buy new what i have to (pushrods/P&B/cam/etc). Im thinking more 1776
currently because i want to drive it everyday... An im not overly interested in heavy drag racing. hoping to run a decent cam on it. Going to be
running Kadrons and want to have a decent RPM range... but probs about 6500 max..
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 18th, 2009 at 05:20 PM |
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Ok... Iv done a bit of looking and gear... and come up with a few more idea's/ Woot.
- Intake - Dual Kadrons kitted and jetted
- Zorst - Thunderbird, w/Hotdog.
- Case - autolinia alloy case
- P&B - Mahle 90.5
- Clutch - Standard type
- Cam- Engle 110 (where can i find a listing and explination of this brand of cams....?)
- rockers - Swivel feet 1:1
- Push Rod Tubes - SS Windage
- Push Rods - Standard
- Lifters - Scat
- Cam Gears - Straight Cut Scat
- Flywheel - Lightened 8 dowel (matched to crank!)
- Crank - Genuine German standard Machined and balanced
- Rods- Genuine German standard Machined and balanced
Really appreciate reconmendations on cams....
Started my new job this week... so cash will start gently flowing, and im going to start slowly buying parts YAY
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Joel
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| posted on April 18th, 2009 at 08:52 PM |
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ok why the straight cuts?
if its just for the wank factor trust me it gets old real quick
and the last thing you wanna do is tear a newly built engine down just to change the cam gears
from a performance point of veiw your valve train doesnt call for them and you would be better off spending money elsewhere
the only reason mine has scat straigts is thats what came with the cam, if i had my choice over again they would be stock cos the noise gets to
much
might wanna rethink the stock clutch too
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 18th, 2009 at 08:57 PM |
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Are they that loud... wow. thats cool and lame at the same time. Will definatly think about it. I want to go for the serpintine belt system to get rid
of belt noise, so you make a good case sir.
I purchased the stock clutch like 6 months ago... do you think i will rip it that badly??
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Joel
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| posted on April 18th, 2009 at 09:16 PM |
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if your doing many long trips i;d seriously think about
most of my mates and family refuse to ride in my bug now cos its to noisy inside
admittidly tho it is mainly intake roar so im hoping subi conversion should fix that little prob 
stock clutch would work fine under most conditions but-
young guy in a vw with a worked motor, comeon, your gonna show those tossers in the commodore next to you slagging off the wussy beetle what it can
really do
thats were stock clutches are the weak link
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 18th, 2009 at 09:26 PM |
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Its funny cause its true. Funnily enough though, Iv shown guys in commodores what a mazda 3 can do. hahaha.
The longest trip it will do is brisbane to warwick or Gold Coast. so 90 minute trips.. and they are rare. I usually take out the Rents' VT (or sadly
a mates TE v6 magna...) If I'm driving that far.
thanks for always giving me great ideas Joel Im totally thinking about
going for a Rod Penrose Engine... They seem fairly reasonable in comparison to other builders. Sure, not as amazing a a pobjoy... but only half the
price. My local guy will probably charge me $4000 just for assembly. It would seem I would get an amazing long block for just over $3000 from Rod. I
got some saving to do to get there!
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 19th, 2009 at 07:10 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colonel mustard
. It would seem I would get an amazing long block for just over $3000 from Rod. I got some saving to do to get there!
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 19th, 2009 at 10:08 AM |
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cro-moly counterweighted crank
Lightened 8 dowelled flywheel
new 5.4'' I beam cro-moly conrods
engle 110 cam and bevel gear
scat lifters
AA 94mm or 90.5mm piston kit Not sure what to go with...
New 043 heads 40 x 35.5 stainless valves , single springs and 54cc chambers , cleaned up and not ported
std pushrods
SS Windage PR tubes
solid shimmed rockers with swivel feet adj.
26mm oil pump
with -
thunderbird zorst..
disi - 009 w/electronic ignition.
Scat serpintine belt kit
Kadrons or DRLA's...
See what the savings bring and go from there. thanks for all the help peoples
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 19th, 2009 at 10:35 AM |
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Just use standard balanced conrods, you dont need the aftermarket ones.
Watch out for the 043 heads on a 1776 or 1916 as you wont be able to get the compression where you need it to be.
You want 6500rpm ?? then i think you will find the 110 is the wrong cam choice.
Standard rockers, set up right, are also more than capable to do the job.
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 19th, 2009 at 11:16 AM |
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Then what sort of cam would you suggest??
I know a few people that would agree with you on the conrods, and I will probably go that way.
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cram
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| posted on April 19th, 2009 at 01:02 PM |
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Dive stan pobjoy a call - one of his 1914s with kads would save you a lot of mucking around and it would be built right!
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