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 rod baker
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 08:38 AM |
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2wd / 4wd with low range 5speed into baja
hi all got an idea tucked away that i am finally going to act on
i have obtained a 73 L bug convertible i am going to gut the drive line 1600 and arms n box ect .
then i am gioing to buy an old ea82 subaru wagon dual range wagon
fit motor and box in the rear of the baja with the box inverted so i have 5 forward gears and low range. gear shiftsand adapters will be interesting
to sort out but will tackle that at the time use rear suspension from suby in to rear of baja and fit front suby struts in place of vw struts with
suby rear diff inverted and mounted in the front of the baja will run all subaru bits hubs brakes ect
problem is engineer said cant cos beetles did not come out 4wd showed him pictures and documentation on comanduer wagons and he still grumbles told
unoficially to build it with no front diff fitted pass it then go away and fit it .
dammed if i do and of course i will apparently i can appeal to rta for a one off dispensation to build it .
rod
http://www.rodstruckentrailers.co.au
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bajachris88
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 09:47 AM |
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bolt baja onto suzuki sierra chassis then :P?
I would luv to play around with the same idea on a dub chassis...
surely there would be a way around it... some way... alot of hard work... but some way.
U can cut and turn a front beam without the engineer being able to do diddily squat... so surely u can do something there...
If u can somehow... (possibly) somehow, make it a bolt on conversion with welding left at ur front beam or hidden... i know some people with
automotive passion for experimenting that would do blue plate compliancing... rather than engineering cert....
but that depends if 2wd to 4wd requires engineering or blue plate. I would assume it depends how the conversion is done...
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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rod baker
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 10:16 AM |
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2wd/4wd conversion
the engineer is ok withe subaru dual rang box and 1.8 ohc and all subaru rear suspension and if you ook at a subaru it looks so VDUBISH anyway and
even with just that done i would have a bigger motor 5 speed and a low range . he will even allow the fitment of the subaru front struts just not the
front diff .
apparently 4wd conversion are allowable if it was an option and tou used the correct parts ie a 2wd toyota into a 4wd toyota using toyota parts.
what i want to do is considered a one of build and wold have to meet so many conditions its not worth considering he did say that he was certain that
the structual integrity of a the vdub was up to it with only minor reinforcing as the front wheels would not have any real pulling ability due o the
lack of weight of them they would aid imensly in directional control.
rod
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Camo
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 06:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rod baker
fit motor and box in the rear of the baja with the box inverted so i have 5 forward gears and low range.
rod
http://www.rodstruckentrailers.co.au
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Dont mean to be negative, but if you put the engine and gearbox from the front of the subaru into the back of your VW you will have 5 reverse gears
etc. I know you talk about inverting the box, but if you mean just putting the gearbox upside down it wont make any difference. I think you would
have to change the crown wheel of the differential from one side to the other side in the gearbox as they do with porsche gearboxes.
Not trying to ruin your plans, just trying help.
Kev
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rod baker
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 06:37 PM |
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2wd 4wd
running to box upside down effectively puts the crown wheel on the other side gearbox input rotation stays the same
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Thinker
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 08:43 PM |
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maybe i am a bit slow but if your input rotation is the same and the box is inverted (flipper over) i think your drive is still the same so if you
have rotataed from front to back that means to go forward you must go backwards
is that right or am i seeing this back to front
Good Luck
And dont forget the drain plug is on the bottom and the breather is on the top
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Camo
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 09:36 PM |
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Sorry rod baker, you are right. If the left front wheel becomes the back right wheel by also spinning the motor around it will be 5 forward and 1
reverse. But as the 'Thinker' states, breather on top etc etc.
Good luck and make sure you keep all updated if you try anything. Kev
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rod baker
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| posted on June 8th, 2009 at 09:44 PM |
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just got a message from another dubber who is having custom diff made so he can run it up right and says he has spent round 5 grand or there abouts on
the box
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shaihulud
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 11:03 AM |
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I've had this idea to fit a Subi with an inverted gearbox for some time, but I've been put off by the complexities of doing it.
Is it possible, that if you remove the engine/gearbox support horns from the Beetle pan, that it might be considered to be modifying the pan and
therefore if might make the whole car an individually constructed vehicle (ICV) with all the concommitant extra complexities that that entails?
Maybe if you did what you want to do to a type 3, which has a completely separate and removable engine/gearbox support system, then you would not be
modifying the pan and then none of the ICV business would arise.
Would that be so?
Apart from that I strongly suggest that you hasten slowly and in stages, as trying to do it all in one go will probably cause the car to be considered
to be an ICV.
So, I recommend you to put the Subi engine in the rear first, get it registered as a Baja with a watercooled Subi engine and then do the 4WD stuff
later.
Just make sure that you tell your insurance company of all of the modifications.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 12:39 PM |
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You could always find a wrecked Syncro T3 Transporter, and transfer all the running gear to a Beetle. You would have a VW gearbox with front takeoff,
driveshaft, front diff with viscous coupling, and the T3 Kombi axles. Automatic, seamless 4WD.
Keeping it VW might also make it easier with engineers too.
This is the Syncro gearbox, and front diff.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 12:43 PM |
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This is what the Syncro Kombi's running gear looks like:
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bajachris88
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 01:37 PM |
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it would be low ratio and heavy duty to.
I think this is the best idea yet!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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ttriebler
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 04:36 PM |
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Good luck getting Syncro components - they are quite rare. The size of that front diff would pretty much prohibit fitting it in any beetle without
some major modifications I'd say!!
By the way, $5000 is just what the approx costs of a reverse crownwheel & pinion are to purchase. I have spent considerably more on the R & D
to get it to that stage.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 07:27 PM |
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Sure it would be tricky. You would need to lose the normal frame head and front suspension and fabricate your own. I'd use the Syncro Kombi
suspension arms and springs, which would be an easier fit in a Superbug than a torsion bar Bug anyway. But then whoever said that making a 4WD Beetle
would be easy?
Anything is possible - it depends on how much work you want to put into it.
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bus914
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 08:40 PM |
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4x4 beetle using kombi, datto, saab and custom parts:
www.davesport.com/cgi-bin/davesport/old_bug.html
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Joel
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 08:56 PM |
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john sherman is probably the best bloke to talk to
pretty sure he used to do kits for vw and subaru engines to fit subi boxes
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 matberry
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 09:07 PM |
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Good link. Bug would go hard me thinks
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 11:20 PM |
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out of curiousity, if u did set up the 4x4 drive train from a syncro or subi...
what kind of extra weight 'disadvantage' would you have?
anything particular to worry about compared to a simple 3 rip kombi box and 1600 tp?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on June 9th, 2009 at 11:21 PM |
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wait... i take that back...
that link to that 4x4 bug is says its only 950ish kgs... thats awesome!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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DylanTheDubber
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| posted on June 10th, 2009 at 03:28 PM |
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Good idea , I have seen monster bugs but never a 4WD.
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pete wood
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| posted on June 10th, 2009 at 03:40 PM |
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at the risk of sounding rude. you don't actually need 4wd. check this vid and see what I mean.
http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk127/stpeterscia/thirlmere%20buggy%20trip...
btw, a swb, aircooled, swingaxle car did it 2 mins later and made it look even easier... as much about the driver as the mechanicals. 
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sgetty
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| posted on June 10th, 2009 at 05:34 PM |
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yes
hers another
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQlVphS1-9k&feature=related&pos=1
i want a baja or buggy now
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sgetty
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| posted on June 10th, 2009 at 05:59 PM |
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AND 4x4 vs buggy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-efwUN8FYuc&feature=related&pos=10
and i think its a forum members im just at home with the flu so....
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 10th, 2009 at 10:25 PM |
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You'd be best off running the suby box the right way up, and adapting reduction boxes to the vw trailing arms. tricky bit would be finding a front
diff with the right ratio that wouldn't need the front to have reduction boxes too.
suby suspension would be a downgrade.
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rod baker
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| posted on June 18th, 2009 at 05:39 AM |
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now that is a good idea i would like drop boxs made to reverse the drive not alter ratio and as to the 4WD V BUGGY what crock its a IFS 4wd with no
suspension travell i could drive up that track in 2wd in my cruiser .
hey but thats life
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 18th, 2009 at 07:20 AM |
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I went up this hill;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV5YHOxquZA
immediately after a stock landcruiser failed to go up it. It doesn't look steep on the video but it was. The cruiser couldn't handle the alternative
dig outs (spun one front and one rear tyre all the time).
A few 4wd's had also just failed to drive up this dune when I went up it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XPggaUD74E
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on June 18th, 2009 at 08:57 AM |
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for anyone wanting the 4x4 conversion...
theres a few hrs left, but a celica gt4 awd rear crade is up for grabs... includes suspension, rear diff, brakes, axles, THE LOT of the whole rear end
ready for 4 solid bolts to mount onto some form of custom fabbed frame head for the vw chassis.
$685 or sumfin, ON EBAY FROM AUSTRALIA. If this gear won the wrc championship a few times, it must be good :P But goodbye torsionbars!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
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Registered: April 8th, 2005
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Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
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| posted on June 18th, 2009 at 09:00 AM |
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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT...
well... 20 mins left...
and it doesn't come with the struts... but all the control arms etc and sway bars. will just need mounts for the top of the struts...
maybe this is where a super bug comes in???!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Turbo54
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| posted on June 18th, 2009 at 09:45 AM |
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There were rally cars back in the day that were called 'mazuba'. Rotary powered 4WD subaru's, they were uncatchable until banned. Maybe a thought
there.
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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ericos_bob
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| posted on July 5th, 2009 at 07:13 PM |
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syncro beetle
The team at syncro hospital are building a 4x4 beetle using syncro 4x4 components. Front and rear difflocks too think It'll be a beast. Just thought
I'd post a link if you're looking for ideas. http://www.syncrohospital.co.za/Projects.asp.
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