| [ Total Views: 804 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 78388 ] |
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 1916baja
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 04:44 PM |
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Might be a dumb question??
Is a T2 not a kombi?? What is the difference in a T4? Is the T4 The caravelle? I'm a little confused 
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 Bizarre
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 04:59 PM |
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Type 1 - beetle body
Type 2 - Kombi body
Type 3 - sedan / fast back / noch back
Type 4 - as above sort of. Not common in Aus
kombi's came with Type 1 motors and type 4 motors
A vanagon ( a kombi from 1982 to 1991 ) is also known as a T2.5 or a T3. The top of the line was the Caravelle
A T4 is the water cooled front engined van sold from 1994?? to about 2005??
A T5 is the latest version that they also call one version a "kombi"
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bookwus
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 05:09 PM |
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Hiya Bizarre,
| Quote: | ......A T4 is the
water cooled front engined van sold from 1994?? to about 2005??
A T5 is the latest version that they also call one version a "kombi"
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Really? Is this the common usage in Oz? 'Cause it's sure different up here in the States.
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polak
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 05:10 PM |
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all the above, that bizarre has written, is correct and also the direct definition of "kombi" is as follows:
Some people mistakenly refer to all buses as "kombis," when actually it's just one of several models. By definition, a "kombi" is a
"kombination" of commercial and passenger vehicle, which could be change functionality with the quick removal of the rear seats. It has 3 windows in
the sides of the cargo area, and one in the rear hatch. The rear window on a kombi is smaller than that of a deluxe. There were only hardboard panels
for interior in the front cab section, covering the doors, roof, and behind the nose. There were no headliner or carpet, and rear seats were optional.
Kombis were frequently used as the basis for campers.
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Sides
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 05:13 PM |
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Also you have to be careful about saying Type or T.... T1 means Type 1 obviously... but with 3 and 4 they're completely different beasties.
Oh, and a Karmann Ghia is a Type 1 too, but obviously WAY sexier than a beetle body...
What do you call them over there Bookwus ???
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:18 PM |
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Yes this whole naming convention must be really confusing to new VW enthusaists.
As Bizarre said, 'Type' and 'T' are NOT the same thing. 'Type' refers to the VW model - Beetle (Type 1), Transporter (Type 2),
Fastback/Squareback/Notchback (Type 3) and VW 411/412 sedan/wagon (Type 4). This 'Type' number can be found on all VW chassis numbers, between 1966
and 1979, as the very FIRST digit.
VW doesn't use 'Type' numbers any more. Since 1980 they have used a two-digit Vehicle Descriptor' that is part of 17-digit VIN. You look at the
7th and 8th digits. For example, a Mk5 Golf is a '1K'; a New Beetle is a '9C', a Touareg SUV is a '7L' and so on.
OK, now the 'T2' business. In this case, we are only referring to Transporters, as the 'T' stands for Transporter. There have been 5
'generations' of Transporter. The original 'split-window' (1950-67) was the 'T1' Transporter. The 'bay window' (1968-79) was the 'T2'
Transporter. The 1980-91 'wedge' was the 'T3' Transporter. The 1992-03 front-engine van was the 'T4' Transporter. The current model,
2004-present, is the 'T5' Transporter.
Now you could say that all the Transporters - T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 - are all 'Type 2s', since 'Type 2' is the Transporter model, and the T1 etc just
refers to the generation of Transporter. BUT, as we said, VW doesn't use 'Type' designations any more. In fact, only the T1, T2 and T3 can really
be called 'Type 2s'. The T3 third generation was a '25' according to its VIN, so it is sometimes (wrongly) called the 'Type 25'. It's still a
T3, and only the van is a '25' anyway. The single/double cab T3 pickups are model type '24' on their VIN. The T4 Transporter has '70' as its VIN
model type, and the T5 has '7H'.
As Mike from the USA has also noted, different countries gave different names to the vehicles. The T1 and T2 models are known as the 'VW Bus' or
'VW Station Wagon' in the USA, but here we know them as 'Kombis' even though they were actually sold as the 'VW Commercial'. The T3 was called
the 'Vanagon' in the USA, but here it was sold as the 'VW Transporter'. The T4 was called the 'Eurovan' in the USA, but here it was the 'VW T4
Transporter'. The T5 is not sold in the USA, but I think the Canadians still call it the Eurovan. Here, it is the 'T5 Transporter'. The Germans
call the T1, T2 and T3 vans the 'VW Bully'.
Within each generation, you could specify which 'variation' you wanted. For the T1 and T2 generations, the base was the bare-bones, no side-window
'Delivery Van' version. The 'Kombi' got side windows, and removeable seats. The 'Microbus' was fully trimmed and fitted out as a people mover
and was the most expensive. There were also single, and double-cab pickup versions, and you could also order a high roof on the early Delivery Van and
Kombi models. (In Australia, the 'Kombi' name has come to refer to the whole range).
For the T3 model in 1982, the 'Microbus' name was dropped and replaced by the 'Caravelle' tag, as it was much more plush than the T2 Microbus.
Airline-style seats, velour trim, fully carpeted, etc etc. There was also an even more plush special order model called the 'Carat', but they are
like hens' teeth.
For the T4, the people mover version was still called the Caravelle. Later T4s got a different grille from the rest of the van range, and often bigger
engines (like the VR6). In Europe you could get a 'lifestyle' version called the Multivan, which had a few less seats but other things like a 12V
icebox and a fold-up table.
For the T5 the roles reversed (confusingly). Today it is the 8-seat 'Multivan' that is the more plush, faster and more expensive, and it still has a
fold up table and ice box! The T5 Multivan seats 9 with more basic trim, and less powerful engines.
Hope this helps!
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 helbus
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:24 PM |
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It certainly is confusing when someone posts "I need a something for my T3" They sometimes actually have a T3 Caravelle or Transporter, but a lot of
the time they have a TYPE 3
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1916baja
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:26 PM |
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MAN! I need to go lay down after taking in all that info 
So when people say Type 4 motor they are meaning the general flat 1800-2ltrs? in buses
if i was to say T4 motor in my 75 bus it would be questionable as it is a completely different motor?
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1916baja
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:29 PM |
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Right i get it now.... Thanks for the help guys!
Mick.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:35 PM |
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Yes you are getting the hang of it!
T1s were only fitted with Type 1 (ie Beetle) upright motors. There never was a 'Type 2' motor. They started with 1100, then 1200, and finally
1500cc. They were almost the same as Beetle engines and only had detail differences.
The T2 in '68 came out with the 1600 Type 1 upright engine. In 1972, VW also offered the 'pancake' twin-carb 1700cc engine from the Type 4 (VW 411)
sedan, detuned a bit with lower compression, as an extra cost option. This was upgraded to 1800cc in 1974, with the 1600cc upright continuing on as
the 'base' motor. In fact the pickups ONLY came with the 1600 at this stage. In 1976 the 1800 was replaced by the 2000, and the 1600 was
discontinued (in Australia anyway). The 1700, 1800 and 2000s are basically the same engine, with only the bore and stroke changing. They had different
engine number codes to tell them apart - eg. AP is 1800 and CJ is 2000.
The 2000 'Type 4' based engine was the ONLY engine available here from 1976 to the model's end in 1980. The T3 in 1982 had the same engine but with
revised exhaust ports and hydraulic tappets. It lasted until the new 'wasserboxer' water-cooled engine arrived in 1985.
And yes, a 'T4' engine in a bus is saying the wrong thing - a 'T4' engine is a Golf-type transverse in-line four. You should say 'Type 4' and
there's no confusion.
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Yogie
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:36 PM |
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So why is a "Kombi" engine so often referred to as a "Type 4" engine if the "type 4" vehicle was actually water cooled?
Yogie
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Bizarre
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:40 PM |
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no - the T4 is water cooled
The TYPE 4 is air cooled
"why is a "Kombi" engine so often referred to as a "Type 4" engine" - because the late BAY kombi is probably the most common and it had the Type
4 motor
Futue te ipsum!!!
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1916baja
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:41 PM |
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Thats really cool... Good to know.
I know what engine goes in which car but i had no idea there was a difference between T and type!
I thought T was just an abrieveation for type  gets confusing
sometimes!
Thanks again!
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:42 PM |
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The Type 4 vehicle was not watercooled. It had 1700 or 1800 pancake air-cooled twin carb engines see photo)
Don't confuse 'Type 4' with 'T4'. It's the 'T4' Transporter that uses Golf drivetrains, and has nothing to do with the 'Type 4'.
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1916baja
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:43 PM |
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HA,HA There is gonna be alot of confused people on this site
tonight!
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:47 PM |
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Don't see why - it makes sense to me. 'Type 4' and 'T4' are NOT the same thing. easy ! :-)
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donn
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 07:47 PM |
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Told ya we need a dictionary!
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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polak
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 10:08 PM |
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there are actually HEAPS of vw dictionaries on the net and i assume as many in books, here are just a couple
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/dic/
http://www.vanagon.com/dictionary/
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greasykitchen
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 10:12 PM |
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Makes sense to me. Good to have someone explain it.
EDIT: I don't think the Type 4 was VWs best moment. Looks kind of duff and dated (not in a good way) and doesn't seem to have been very popular.
Following that came the ... Mk 1 Golf. And the rest is history 
'76 Golf
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helbus
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 11:02 PM |
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Easy to remember
'TYPE' is always 'TYPE'
'TRANSPORTER' is to long a word for an Aussie and becomes a 'T'
Splitty bus is a Type 2 T1
Bay bus is a Type 2 T2
Wedge (Caravelle etc.) is a Type 2 T3
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chunks54
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| posted on August 13th, 2009 at 11:53 PM |
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If you like the shape its a Type 1 split or a bay, if it looks like it was made by a jap orogami expert its a T25, if the AA have just driven past you
towing a broken down Vauxhall its a T4 and if its being driven by someone with a heavy tan wearing Oakleys its a T5.
Simple?!
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 14th, 2009 at 07:47 AM |
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You're kidding.
There is no such thing as a 'T25', so please stop using the term - it is causing confusion. The third generation is the 'T3'. VW's VIN descriptor
was '25' for the van, as explained, but that does NOT make it a 'T25'. As I said, T3 pickups and double cab pickups have a VIN decriptor of '24'
- you don't call them 'T24's do you?
Also, you used the term 'Type 1 split' - that's a Beetle made before 1953. You mean T1 split. And there's also no such thing as a 'Type 1 bay'.
I don't know what idiot thought up the name 'bay window' to describe T2 Kombis. VW never used that name. Real bay windows on houses are
three-piece.
It's no wonder new VW enthusiasts get confused - USE THE RIGHT BLOODY NAMES.
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Bookwus
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| posted on August 14th, 2009 at 07:48 AM |
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Phil,
My man, you are an education!
Excellent service for all of the rest of us wherever we might be.
Up here in the States a Type 2 generally refers to ANY Bus regardless of year or model. further distinctions are noted by name rather than "T"
designations. For example, Splitties, Baywindows, Singlecabs, Vanagons, etc. One sees "Kombi" once in awhile, but it is not a common usage.
Using T4 here will get you to 411s and 412s pretty darn quick. Again, "T" designations are not commonly used (or used at all).
Great stuff Phil, thanks again.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 14th, 2009 at 08:06 AM |
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Hey Mike, thanks for the nice feedback. Yes all the Buses up to and including Vanagons (T3s) are technically Type 2s, so that is fine. The 'T'
business was a German thing that only came into practice when the front-drive T4 ('Eurovan') was released in 1991, and VW referred to it as the
'T4'. That immediately implied that the three earlier generations were the T1, T2 and T3, but until then no one had used those terms. And as we've
said, the T4 and T5s are NOT Type 2s - you could say they are Type 70 and Type 7H, but no one calls them that.
What is the reason that the current T5 Transporter is not sold in the USA? I vaguely remember reading about some US tax law that prevented the
delivery van versions from being sold since the '60s, but the US did get passenger 'Station Wagon' versions of the T2, Vanagon and Eurovan. What
happened to the T5? I know VWoA tried to sell the Chrysler minivan as the VW Routan but I heard that was a failure (maybe they will be collectable in
10 years?). Surely the T5 Caravelle or Multivan would sell in the US. The Australian-spec ones come with a choice of a 173 kW (232 hp) 3.2-litre V6,
or a 2.5-litre 5-cylinder TDI turbo diesel with 128 kW (172 hp) and an amazing 400 Nm (295 ft-lbs) of torque. http://www.volkswagen.com.au/vwcms/master_public/virtualmaster/en_au/New_Cars...
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Bookwus
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| posted on August 14th, 2009 at 08:47 AM |
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Hiya Phil,
I don't know that I've ever seen anything in print about the reasons theT5 is not being sold in the American market. But the general speculation is
that VWoA decided that market demographics favored taking the T5 out of the picture in favor of the Routan. From what I hear, the sales figures for
the T4, while not impressive, were enough to cut into the Routan's potential market. Dunno if that is the actual reason but it does hold true with
past VW marketing strategy such as killing the AutoStick to pave the way for the Rabbit auto back in the seventies.
By the way, Phil, with your kind permission, I'd like to lift your post on model designations and drop it into a US Bus oriented forum I frequent.
I'm thinking it's time the locals got tuned into how the rest of the world refers to the various models. Would that be OK by you?
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on August 14th, 2009 at 09:15 AM |
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Mate that would be fine. It's always good when we speak the same language! Reword or expand it as you see fit.
If you blokes in the USA would like to know more about the history and peculiar local differences of Volkswagen in Australia, I have already written a
year-by-year Aussie VW history at the link below. I imagine that not many US enthusiasts would know that Beetles, Buses and Type 3s, and later Golfs
and Passats (Rabbits and Dashers) were manufactured and assembled in Australia, from the 1950s to 1976.
http://www.clubvw.org.au/Australian%20VW%20history.htm
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