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 bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
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 posted on October 27th, 2009 at 08:27 PM |
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Water to air or air to air (intercoolers)??
Are water-to-air intercoolers greater super better than air-to-air?
One would automatically think so, cause i did. and there are two setups available at the moment on ebay with pump, radiator and intercooler. Only
issue is greater bulk.
but history, particularly with my celica background, is that some manufacturers went from water-to-air to air-to-air in their later models while still
having greater hp output and more aggressive tuning setups.
maybe just the companies cutting on manufacturing costs on the later models i spose?
Or particularly just the question of whether its actually necessary to go even that far...
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on October 27th, 2009 at 10:47 PM |
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Hi
An effective intercoooler is hard to package in rear engine car, the problem is airfow unless your willing to have an air 2 air hanging out your
decklid.
Steve
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
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| posted on October 28th, 2009 at 09:23 AM |
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hmm yea your absolutely right there. Thats going to be my major hurdle... cause being a baja i don't want the intercooler to be picking up air from
all the crap and rocks below.
and up above... well then issue is room and air flow. Particularly when i don't want one of those baja scoop style decklid covers... i got a modest,
oldskool one that sits flush with a pops nose that i really got my eye on using. I got both styles... but would rather a 'neat' setup.
ah wells... plenty to keep my busy on the holidays no doubt!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Joel
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| posted on October 28th, 2009 at 09:42 AM |
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it was cost cutting that the manufacturers dont use h2o coolers
air to air is a very simple primative peice compare it to how much more complex a water intercooler is plus add in header tank, pump, radiator, water
lines etc its easy to see why there not standard equipement
that siad theres a pretty big aftermarket for barrel coolers and they're much better suited to a rear engined vw
air2air can be made to work in a bug, ians WRX bug uses one and i was watching the inlet temps alot and was surprising how low they stayed even with
some heavy boosting
i started setting up one on my old turbo setup just before it died and i threw in the towel
it was a stock WRX TMIC sitting between the decklid hinges catching all the air coming over the roof with decklid stand offs
never got the chance to test it
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1303Steve
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| posted on October 28th, 2009 at 09:46 AM |
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Hi
The bits needed for the air 2 water system can be scrounged around for or you can just buy all big dollar name stuff.
A good system that usually wont beak the bank is one from a turbo liberty, I think I paid around $150 for a pump, radiator and intercooler. Then you
will need some hoses etc and triggering device, aftermarket ECU can do this or a Hobbs switch with a delay circuit would work as well. The intercooler
radiator can be fitted at the front of the car in the air stream but out of the way of rocks etc.
Steve
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ttriebler
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| posted on October 28th, 2009 at 11:42 AM |
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There's a really really interesting article by Julain Edgar over on Autospeed. He tests the thermal characteristics of intercoolers and basically
deduces that most of the heat from the air stream goes to the intercooler under boost (and heats up the intercooler core itself) and then quite a lot
of that heat soak actually goes back into the airstream (heating it up) when the car is not on boost or at idle. It seeps back into the airstream a
little at a time which doesn't really affect the running of the engine. So he thinks of it mainly as a heat sink for the inlet air, that gains and
releases heat to the airstream, not so much releasing it to the cooling water. (whether that's true or not I'll leave up to you to interpret, have a
read).
So he looked at the properties of heatsinks and found that wax (parrafin wax basically) has an interesting thermal property. It takes lots and lots of
heat energy to turn it from solid into liquid. Once it's liquid, it can then dissipate the heat, and also slowly release it back as it turns to
solid. So he got a water/water intercooler and filled the water areas with liquid wax, sealing it all off so it's a closed system.
This then takes heaps of hot boost, takes the heat energy out of the air to turn the wax inside the intercooler to liquid. It's still contained
within the system. Now as he drives around off-boost, it slowly releases energy back until the wax is solid.
I reckon this would make for a very, very compact intercooler system that doesn't require pumps and external radiators and so on. Perfect for the
back of a bug or buggy.
Reversed gears for Subaru transmissions.
Fit a Subaru 5 speed to your rear engined car
www.subarugears.com |
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DaveCarter
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| posted on October 28th, 2009 at 12:04 PM |
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that sounds pretty interesting
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mactaylor
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| posted on October 29th, 2009 at 01:45 AM |
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is that julian edgar the bloke who started zoom magazine?
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
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DubCrazy
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| posted on October 29th, 2009 at 06:39 AM |
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what engine are you running it onand i am guessing its in the Baja???
water to air is more affective on a small cooler as it keeps the temps down more than an air to air. A big air to air can work almost as good as a
small water to air.
The down side of water to air is all the extra parts and if something lets go its harder to find the fault in the system where as air to air is simple
and easy to fix.
there is another simple option and its what i have done. Use a small top mount air to air cooler with a water spray directly onto the cooler with a
8inch thermo mounted underneath drawing the air through. I have a duel stage boost controller set up in my baja and on the first stage its just 6lb of
boost with out the water being sprayed. when i switch over to second stage its 12lb of boost and when it hits 4lb the spray comes on so that it will
only fire under hard driving and not when idleing.
We did a heap of testing and the water drop the temps massivly it also droped the engine water temps as my rad is mounted in the rear with a draw
through fan that sucks the air and water thats fallen from the intercooler which was an added bonues
its removed at present and i dont have pics but i hope to have the work i am doing at presant done in the next couple of weeks and i will re install
it. when i do i'll take some pics so u can see how i've done it.
mine is mounted central from the rear bar work to under my rear scoop and gets a fairly good air flow, the 8inch thermo makes it very good flow.
its not fitted int he picture but u can see where it would fit going in the middle with the center of the rear sccop higer
steff...
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
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| posted on October 29th, 2009 at 09:02 AM |
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thanks for all the help guys, alot of ideas here and good advice.
top stuff. paraffin wax is pretty orig! i will have to definitely find that article.
Hi steff, yea its for a the baja, its for a s/c 1600. Yours sounds like a very simple and effective idea. for the spray over the intercooler you just
have a windscreen washer pump or sumfin coming from a reservoir?
It would be more trusting then a 23 yr old water to air intercooler setup i'm seeing on ebay. They have a few from the old st165 3sgte gt4 celicas,
pump, intercooler and front mount radiator with the bid at $99. But your right, with wats involved, and particularly if i'm driving in the middle of
no where, i want something thats the most reliable... and therefore will be looking for something newish, simpler and the most inanimate. I like your
idea.
I plan on driving through the outback and don't want a major breakdown lol.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on October 29th, 2009 at 02:09 PM |
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Hi
I have the wax article as a PDF file, drop me an email and I will send it to you. info@clubvw.org.au
The air 2 water is not that complicated, I have personally used one on my 1302 for many years, Jak has one on his WRX bug that been trouble free for
years.
Steve
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DubCrazy
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| posted on October 30th, 2009 at 06:41 AM |
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yea useing a crapodore washer bottle with windscreen pump. It has a low level switch so i know when its nearly out. It only get power on the second
stage as it has a pressure switch only going on at 4 and above.
I wasnt saying a water to air is complicated if anything its more basic than mine but if u have problems, leaks etc is mush harder to find/fix on
water to air coolers where as a air to air its a simple thing and normaly u know straight away if its playing up. I wouldn't mind useing water to air
on mine but the more i looked i found it really wasn't suited to my car and what its used for.
I dont run mine on the second stage very offen but the set up has a hidden advantage that i never thought about when installing it. We put ice cubes
in the tank 10 minutes before i run down the strip and the water temp being sprayed onto the cooler droped by just over 3/4's from what it had been
before(basic temp probe just to get an idea)
when i get it al sorted and back on the car i want to install a temp senser just before the turbo to mesure the air, hopfully it will show some very
good results from standard to the air passing through the cooled cooler. in fact thinking about it i should install it now with no cool fitted so i
can see an over all affeact from a standard set up.
steff.............
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!
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