| [ Total Views: 1325 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 83482 ] |
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 bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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 posted on May 5th, 2010 at 01:20 PM |
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tow bars... what are the legalities about makeing/fitting for PRE ADR vehicles?
Hi,
I'm keen for a tow bar for a the baja, i got a few sets of barwork in the back yard and don't know if there is anything i can do to make them work
with a tow bar. shouldn't be hard seeing the tow bars on normal beetles just run off the sheet metal of the rear apron.
It would only be for very light towing... maybe a tinny at the most...
Is there any rules / regulations?
I'm not currently happy with all the anchorage points on the barwork, so will have to mod as such... but still thinking about having mounts extending
to the rear torsion tubes... so as any towing stress won't be loaded on the rear forks as much.
Anywho, so yea. whats involved?
Thanks in advance,
Chris.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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super72beetle
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| posted on May 5th, 2010 at 01:46 PM |
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The only ones I've seen run off the forks (with brackets) and a reinforced plate on the backside of the bumper. Yeah, it'd wanna be a pretty
light/small trailer.
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BiX
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| posted on May 5th, 2010 at 03:09 PM |
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As he said. Normally 2 tubes that run back from the torsion bar tubes. Then there is a tube that bolts between the rear numper brackets to hang the
tow bar from. The rear tubes under the engine make an excellent rear bash plate mount.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on May 5th, 2010 at 06:40 PM |
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There is 2 types of standard towbars, one (the lighter one) clamps on the ends of the tuning fork, and the other (the heavy duty one) clamps to the
torsion tube - it does weigh more though.
I agree with the protection the tow bar offers the case and the exhaust. It has saved me heaps in exhaust repairs especially.
Let me know if you want a photo of the heavier type mounting, and I will take one tomorrow night and post it for you.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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Joel
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| posted on May 5th, 2010 at 07:33 PM |
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theres another even lighter version yet again, lets call it the pissweak one
i still have one for my bug, it just bolts to the inner gaurd below the bumper mounts and to the bumper bracket itself
ok for a little box trailer with not too much weight but what else can you tow with a beetle anyway?
Jeff dont answer that question 
Chris, ive seen a few bajas and buggys around that just have a tab welded to the crash bar with a hole for a tow ball, probably all you need if you
towing light stuff
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pod
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| posted on May 5th, 2010 at 09:15 PM |
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just check out the minimum thickness for the tongue,i think its 20mm these days,was 16mm , but havent been making towbars for about 15 yrs now
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on May 6th, 2010 at 10:45 AM |
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thanks for all the help guys, thats perfect!
Know i know how to go about it and what to do. I'm pretty confident with my welding these days too.
very much appreciated.
it does scare me how light duty some of those tow bars were you'd
be worried about sitting on it without it busting off...
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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waveman1500
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| posted on May 6th, 2010 at 09:37 PM |
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I've got two Beetle tow-bars lying around at my place and both just bolt between the stock bumper brackets, using holes drilled through the bumper
brackets between the bumper and the body. One of them looks to have been professionally made and is quite light-duty, but the other one is a home-made
effort out of enormous 100mm square box section steel with at least 5mm wall thickness, which bolts to the bumper brackets using 10mm thick plates!
I'm not sure what the manufacturer was planning on towing with it, but if it was solidly bolted to the chassis of a truck then this thing could pull
a B-double. As it was I wouldn't want to tow much behind it or you would rip the rear bumper off of the car! I have to say that both of these towbars
look quite old though, as they still use the "curly hook" method of attaching safety chains, rather than having holes for shackles.
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Smiley
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| posted on May 7th, 2010 at 01:20 AM |
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Will take some pictures of my old setup in the morning for you Chris.
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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baghall
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| posted on May 8th, 2010 at 07:27 PM |
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gidday Chris
Been looking at tow bars for my baja. I got hold of a second hand rear bar that mounts off the rear torsion bars and has brackets that bend over the
rear tuning forks near the engine mounts (not totaly happy with that arrangement). Heavy duty crash bars also can mount to the fire wall so am thinkin
off welding two tubes off the top bar so as to attach to the fire wall with backing plates inside the car.
All tow bars I looked at had brackets welded to round tubing approx 2mm wall thickness and around 50mm diameter. Brackets were angle iron approx 5mm
thick and 2-3inches to allow bolting of towing neck for ball. The better ones also had a piece welded horizontally to give strength along the tubes.
This is what I will be working with as i just got given an old towbar that was cut off a vw. So i will be welding it between my verticals on my rear
bar. Hope this helps!
68 Baja - It's a growing pain!
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85 T3 Kombi - still growing
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bnicho
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 11:26 AM |
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I'm looking for a towbar at the moment. I want something that will cope with around 400kg gross and 40kg ball weight. This is the absolute max I
ever expect to tow with my bug.
Are any of these towbars you guys have kicking around capable of towing that? 
Cheers,
Brett Nicholson
Melbourne, Victoria
1974 VW Superbug L - Olive
1971 Morris Mini Moke - Mopoke
1966 Austin Mini - Audrey
1965 Morris Mini Traveller - Trixie
2007 Land Rover Freelander 2
2009 Nissan Pathfinder |
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 06:24 PM |
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thanks Balhall and Daniel. Yea, i'm keen to see those photo's Dan. I rekon i could smash this out pretty well :P
Does anyone know if the original owners manual for the bug stated any max tolerences with towing? i neva had a copy, and i assume they are pretty
'limited' nower days...
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 06:40 PM |
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Being rear engine and rear wheel drive, beetles tow very well. My tool box/trailer weighs about 3/4 of a tonne I reckon (full of tools) and I tow it
all the time with no problems. Some of my carpenters with utes had trouble pulling it up, as did my daughter with the Subaru Liberty she used to own.
It is build on a Type 3 rear end, so I put a Sherman disc brake conversion on it (same as my bug), and it stops great now. I just have to be carefull
reversing quickly, over bumps, or uphill - I have to put the brake preventer bar over.
I once towed my 7 x 4 box trailer about 30 km in the pouring rain. It was half full of dirt (that was now soaked with rain), then loaded up to about
1800 high with left over timber (mostly hardwood) up to 6500 long. Weighed about 2 tonne I reckon. Wasn't game to go over about 50 kmh though. lol
As I said, they will tow very well, and as long as the load is reasonably balanced, I havn't had a problem.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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Smiley
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 07:55 PM |
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I agreed with Jeff. They tow extremely well. I didn't even notice the trailer there....except for the massive lack of power
This is a picture of the back of my old Baja. You can see the towball plate welded in the middle. I think as long as your cage is solid you shouldn't
have any troubles Chris. Having said that my cage was extremely well mounted by whoever built it and rock solid. I could jump up and down on the back
of it and it wouldn't move at all.
I still have the cage although it was bent when I rolled the car. Just went and took some pictures for you.
The plate where the towball bolts through is actually three plates. The thick square piece in the middle and the two triangle gussets on the sides.
The triangle pieces are angled down slightly from the main plate. This would be to help prevent up and down flexing of the tongue.
Here is the car towing a trailer with my buggy floorpan on it. Probably around 300kgs all up.
While I was borrowing the trailer above I also took a load of old cut up beetle bodies out the dump. I got them to weigh me on the way in and way out.
I worked out I was towing about 450kg (including trailer), which is about more than half what the Baja weighed! It was only 780kg. Never had a
drama.
I'm going to be making a cage very similar to my old one. I'm using the same mounts. Will be putting a similar style towbar on it too. But I might
use some thicker plate than the old one.
I hope some of this helps you.
If you want in more info or measurements Chris, don't hesitate to ask.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 11:07 PM |
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Yep, mine tows OK. I just drove to Newcastle from Port Macquarie (about 3 hours) with my tool box/trailer on and didn't have a drama except slowing
to about 80 on some of the hills. Most of the time I sat on 100 to 110. Used an extra 10 or 20 dollars worth of fuel though. lol
From your ole' mate Jeff
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 11:11 PM |
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you just pumpin a 1600 or sumfin? bug box? This is actually sounding very promising... should hopefully be able to pull well... the kombi box should
help as long as they rear frame horns and chassis doesn't bend or die.
750kgs is no more than the average of today's cars. I remember a photo of an old custom offroad vw towing a car trailer with another baja on that as
well.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Smiley
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 11:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajachris88
you just pumpin a 1600 or sumfin? bug box? This is actually sounding very promising... should hopefully be able to pull well... the kombi box should
help as long as they rear frame horns and chassis doesn't bend or die.
750kgs is no more than the average of today's cars. I remember a photo of an old custom offroad vw towing a car trailer with another baja on that as
well.
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My car was just a pissy little 1600 SP with a 1200 carby on it.
I think Jeff has a 1916?
The low ratios of the 3-rib Kombi box you have will definately help pull a trailer better.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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beetleboyjeff
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| posted on May 9th, 2010 at 11:43 PM |
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Yeah, I have a 1916 with Kads. The trans in it at the moment is a stocker though.
From your ole' mate Jeff
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donn
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| posted on May 10th, 2010 at 05:09 AM |
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I have recently made a tow bar for my buggy, if you give me your email address I'll send you the pics, got no idea how to get them on here and I have
give up trying. 
ps, I used a square hitch from a motorbike trailer towbar.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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HappyDaze
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| posted on May 10th, 2010 at 07:46 AM |
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I towed a trailer with the Formula Vee behind my stock '68 1500 Beetle in 1969. The tow bar was a '6 point' mount -2 rear torsion tubes, 2 fork
(engine mount) bolts, and 2 rear bumper.This worked very well, even on long trips, i.e. Bathurst etc.
A couple of points;- Road speed was a bit slow up hills such as Mt. Victoria, and front end got a bit light under heavy braking, due to weight
transfer onto the tow bar.
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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baghall
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| posted on May 10th, 2010 at 11:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by donn
I have recently made a tow bar for my buggy, if you give me your email address I'll send you the pics, got no idea how to get them on here and I have
give up trying.
ps, I used a square hitch from a motorbike trailer towbar.
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I'd also be interested in seeing your photos if possible. Always looking for more ideas. If you click on reply and go to bottom of page there is a
browse button for adding pictures and for up to three photos totally. Need to be a small file size in order to post.
68 Baja - It's a growing pain!
58 Baja ute - and the pain spreads!
85 T3 Kombi - still growing
89 T3 Kombi - parts car
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
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| posted on May 10th, 2010 at 11:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by donn
I have recently made a tow bar for my buggy, if you give me your email address I'll send you the pics, got no idea how to get them on here and I have
give up trying.
ps, I used a square hitch from a motorbike trailer towbar.
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Hi Don. thanks mate, i'm keen to have a gander. I can never get enough food for thought, my email is:
mynameischris88@hotmail.com
I can post up the pics for you too on here?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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donn
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| posted on May 11th, 2010 at 07:26 AM |
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Sent to Chris, feel free to send them or post if you want.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
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| posted on May 11th, 2010 at 08:43 AM |
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This was worth posting up, i thought it was quite clever actually. Light duty as Don has enthasised, but clever.
I spose if you wanted to beef it up, you could run arms to the shock mounts diagonally and in turn it could also work as a supportive cradle for the
rear frame horns as well. Would suggest a cross member between the diagonal arms above the gearbox as the shock towers wouldn't be too happy with
tangential forces. (given their shape etc)
Pics:
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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Smiley
A.k.a.: Daniel Stephens
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| posted on May 11th, 2010 at 09:26 PM |
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Looks like a good setup.
I'm going to be running similar plates off the gearbox cradle bolts. But a lot thicker and holes for bolts not hooks.
Smiley
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
23 Windows of Awesome
The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 672.
Posts: 6661
Threads: 534
Registered: April 8th, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: Tanah Merah, SE-QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: A bee bit ma' bottom, now ma' bottom's big!
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| posted on May 11th, 2010 at 11:34 PM |
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Oh! i didn't put up all the photos only just an overview, But after fabbing up the hooks, Don seal welded them on pretty firmly to the rhs sitting on
top of each hook. I assume he made them separately so he could align it perfectly and welded it up while it was on the frame horns. You can sorta see
in the last photo in the bottom left corner (the hook welded so it bolts up to the frame horns).
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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