| [ Total Views: 2436 | Total Replies: 51 | Thread Id: 836 ] |
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 Spook
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 posted on September 25th, 2002 at 07:05 PM |
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Let's do this again
For those who have a short memory;
Many months ago I kicked of a rather heated debate about nudity in the 'Pic of the week' section.
After many posts,IT WAS DECIDED BY THE MEMBERS what was acceptable.
So long as it wasn't porn or illegal, & it had a warning before you opened it, no problem.
Now it appears I need to do it again.
This morning I go to the pic section & find we have been given a set of rules, & one pic already has been deleted.
I am more than a little peeved about this .
Firstly, the person who has posted these rules is not listed as a moderator for the section.
Second, as a senior member of this forum(both in posts & length of membership) I do not recall being consulted, nor do I know of any open
discussion about such rules.
I do, however, recall this matter being settled long ago.
Third, there is a punishment for breaching these rules that no one was asked about.
Most importantly, the pic that has been deleted (the 4 girls & the split kombi) was deemed acceptable months ago. But now because one guy thinks,
if you stand on your left leg & squint you may see some flange, its gone.
I gave my word last time this sh!t was tried that I would not one or a handfull of people dictate this forum & I intend to keep my word.
[Edited on 25-9-2002 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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Dasdubber
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| posted on September 25th, 2002 at 10:31 PM |
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Well, as the author of the above mentioned post (split kombi with girls) originally, it was never intended to cause any problems.
I can see both sides of the coin though, hence in my message originally it had something to the effect "IF the moderators feel this is
inappropriate, please delete" so I don't care it has been deleted. There were what I thought were sufficient warnings in my post but I
understand that some underage kids may decide to ignore these warnings and sneak a peak anyway.
Since there were no rules listed anywhere I thought I'd test out to see what was accepted, now I know and for the good of the forum I am happy to
comply, even though I don't necessarily always agree with rules dictated by so few people.
I agree with the above post that some consensus should be reached regarding rules/punishment, but I understand that it can be neverending trying to
get consensus on an issue such as this (and since I didn't see the post on the old forum discussing this, I didn't know anything was
resolved).
Anyway, after all this rambling, I would rather it was deleted than cause arguements (too late for that) and I am grateful that as per stated in the
Pic of the Week section that no warnings have been issued to me since there were no rules listed prior to my "nudie" post. 
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helterskelter400
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| posted on September 25th, 2002 at 11:09 PM |
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difficult one eh????
at the end of the day & when the fat lady/man has sung, the splitty & bums is/was very weak.
any net nanny type or porn preview service would let through more.
is this an argument to let more in ??
i dunno
all i know is i have no probs with splits, splits and even tits.
if i want intake or exhaust flange, its not the vw site i go to. any kid after stuff knows this too.
when i was a kid it was the car mags ruminating about content.
now my sig other has a recent girls mag with Karen Pinelly as the now aged respectable mother of two/three explaining how she did it (i however have
the late 70's car mag with her pre baby boobs a flashin & a pozin).
if its soft on, let it thu is my vote. |
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on September 25th, 2002 at 11:48 PM |
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I agree with all three of you.
Kruizin Kol
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Spook
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 03:03 AM |
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Das, that you didn't see the discussion on this on the old forum is not a surprise. This was kicked off 6, maybe 8 months ago. Well back in the
pages, if it's still there at all.
This same photo (& one other) was on the forum then.
The arguement is not to let more in.
It's about leaving these things to the discretion of the particular member.
Last time this came up, the compromise was - the tits & arse could stay, but a warning would be put on the post.
This was reached by open discussion on the forum & "signed off" by Jim.(remember Jim? He runs this show).
Now, for many months, this agreement has hummed along nicely.
The fact is, not many people post nude pics anyway. I think all up there's only been 5 or 6 pics.
My problem now is, some upstart has taken it on his own back to overide this arrangement.
There are rules that members were not consulted on.
There is mention of expulsion for repeat "offenders".
A pic, that has been on this forum for near 8 months, has been deleted, by this same upstart.
The reason...BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, when he ADJUSTED HIS COMPUTER, he thinks he can see some flange.
NOW WHAT CHANCE DOES THAT SORT OF MENTALITY GIVE THE REST OF US?
[Edited on 25-9-2002 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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Bugged Again
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 08:00 AM |
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I missed the splitties with splitty again, bugger, bugger, bugger. Maybe third time lucky |
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 11:10 AM |
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I couldn't care less if it's there or not. I ran the pic through many many variations of colour contrast gamma etc and found nothing that
would not pass the (some would say ludicrous) standards imposed by the wowser Harradine into the What Can and What Can't. Legally it was fine so
that was a damn poor excuse.
Solution. See what the majority thinks.
If people are upset then they shouldn't look. If they are worried about their kids - exercise some f*cking parental control or guidance.
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KOM123
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 11:37 AM |
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Is there a way that offending pics can be put in a separate section that requires you to login again? Just a thought.
I'm all for the warnings making people aware about the content of the messages but as a Dad with two kids who like to view VW pics BUT whose kids
are not old enough to read a warning (and yes I do "exercise some f*cking parental control or guidance" as it was commented) there are times
when kids will click on the next link they see not knowing meaning of any warning.
If you want to see that type of things there's heaps of websites out there and alot have those sections separated off. All I'm saying is
when me, the wife and kids go to look at the pics sections there's some things we just don't need to see and that's why the warnings
are great because that allows us to control that to an extent, epsecially when the kids are around.
I'm all for comppromise this and also the role of 'each to their own', I just thought a separate section might be one way of
controlling it and go someway to keeping most people happy but then again I don't even know if it's technically possible.
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 12:01 PM |
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Simple solution
Simple solution. If it's legal allow it. There's nothing the Australian Content Regulations will allow that can't be seen on TV
(without any warning) in the press (without a warning).
I don't care if it's posted or not, but I do care about censorship in all it's forms. If we were half as worried about violence or
danger as we are pleasure we would be more concerned with "legal obscenity" - ie. posting pics of cars doing burnouts / featuring illegal
modifications. All of which could quite easily be argued encourage others to break the law.
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Spook
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 05:27 PM |
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A wise old saying goes:
IF IT AINT BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
The solution is, was & always will be, the status quo.
Kom, as a father of 5,(ranging from 3 to 15) I tell you, there was never a pic posted that was anything more than tit & bum & a VW.
I stated it last time, I've found more t&a in the wife's cosmo.
Nothing was posted that could be seen as needing parental guidance. Nothing you wont see down the beach this summer.
Matt, this has sweet FA to do with Harradine.
This is about a moderator on this forum who has overturned an arrangement hammered out by the members & administrater of the forum many months
ago.
This WAS ALREADY decided by the masses.
Bugged, I got the pics put back last time, I'll do it again this time. Or I'll kick up a sh!tstorm trying :thumb
[Edited on 26-9-2002 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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 BenettonVW
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 posted on September 26th, 2002 at 07:52 PM |
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Ahhh crap.. What the hell is going on here? I thought this was fixed last time? Hmm... Have we had some sort of rule changes that people, such as
myself, are unaware of?
I'm sure if it is the 14y.o. lads you think you are protecting, 90% of the downloaded material of the web in porn, so if it was porn they were
after, they wouldn't be signed up here, let me tell ya..
So because the location has changed, the rules have too? |
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Spook
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 08:01 PM |
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I was wondering when you were going to turn up boss.
I'll take it from your tone that you know nothing of these rules either.
Can I expect this subject to be sorted again. Or was it always sorted & this is just a hiccup?
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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KOM123
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| posted on September 26th, 2002 at 10:44 PM |
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Heya spook, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers this morning. We've got the threat of redundancies hanging over our heads at work and when
someone in management had the hide to make a dubious comment about people with families and parenting skills I was pretty fired up. Next time I think
I will leave it a few hours before posting after something like that
Anyway some of my points from this morning I still stand by i.e. we apprecaite the warnings on the posts in question and I thought the separated
section might be an option to consider, certainly not to enforce or anything.
Cheers...KOM123
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Spook
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| posted on September 27th, 2002 at 04:19 AM |
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Your not the one that's ruffled my feathers brother, and what I said was not a shot at you.
Just an explanation that the pics that have been posted have not been over the top.
I also saw the guidance comment.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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Bugged Again
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| posted on September 27th, 2002 at 07:56 AM |
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I think you should use the foreign movies they show on SBS (especially the french & italian ones oh and maybe the spanish) as a guide to whats
allowed and what isn't:o
Maybe we could only allow adult material to be posted after 9.30pm just like the telly!! |
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Spook
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| posted on September 27th, 2002 at 10:41 AM |
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Please don't make light of this.
This is about one #$%@ dictating terms for the forum, and threatening punishment if we don't abide by those terms.
One point of this is that not one of the pictures posted to date have been, what I would call, adults only.
Racy; yes
funny; yes
Porn; no
Smut;no
The main point is that censorship & political correctness were tried on this forum once before. & both were shot down in flames.
However, an agreement was reached, that a bit of t&a was ok so long as a nudity warning was attached, so you knew BEFORE you opened it.
For the record, this arrangement has never been abused & therefore not an issue since.
I think I can safely say that more people have been offended by some of the "AIR vs WATER" discussions we have had (I miss them  ) than have ever been offended by the pics section.
I'm back on my high horse now, because ONE moderator has decided we need censorship again.
I've been here since the begining & for mine, if you don't like the forum the way it is, then P!SS OFF. I won't miss you.
[Edited on 27-9-2002 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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 kombi_kid
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| posted on September 27th, 2002 at 10:51 AM |
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hey
i dont think we need to go as far as password protection! i dont see any offence to any of the pictures and my parents dont worry! so you have my
approval spook the lad that said the rules is only fairly new to the forum but knows the stuff and dont think he new about the agreement previously
made! so you gotta give him some leway!
cheers
rhys |
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on September 28th, 2002 at 09:39 AM |
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What we need is some guidelines for moderators.......
Kruizin Kol
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jenz58
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| posted on September 28th, 2002 at 12:50 PM |
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Must admit I've gone and looked at the pics because of the amusing/entertaining replies. (a spy! :eek)
Skimpily clad women seem to be part of the car culture, we still see them being paraded at the Grand Prix, car shows and in car mags. Even Vee Dubbers
do it!
I guess you can be offended or you can have a laugh.
What I've seen isn't porn but I'm not sure if I saw the last post. After raising two healthy sons and trying to instill healthy values
and respect toward females, their hormones still seem to need a dose of titalation. As 14yearold said, kids know where to go if they want porn and it
not a VW forum.
I've seen Latin American music videos that are more pornographic. Must admit I find them very funny and usually go into fits of laughter because
everyone seems to be taking themselves so seriously.
It seems to be a thing that men go after because I couldn't find any pics of spunky guys draped over VW's. I thought I'd post one for a
joke. The only VW guys I could find had neck to knee overalls buttoned to the neck. How modest? Anyway I don't think there is a big female
audience on the Forum, Jay, lil'dub and I, but it's hard to tell with handles.
Really the pics are OK just so long as it doesn't become too regular, then it may be lowering the standard of the forum and become very
boring.
From the spy amongst you |
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Spook
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| posted on September 28th, 2002 at 05:42 PM |
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No Collin, what we need is one less moderator, & that brother, is my next crusade.
Jen, there have been collectively 5 or 6 pics put on in the 14 months this forum has been running.
1 nude
1 topless
The rest were scantilly clad, but clad all the same.
I did volunteer to do a nude shot next to my kombi, but my wife wont take the pic.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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57kombi
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on September 28th, 2002 at 07:21 PM |
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I Have to agree with spook, as i did 8 months ago.
The old saying goes,,, I might not agree with what you say ,,, but I will fight to allow you to say it...
The point spook is making is ,,,, who has the right to say what we can or cannot see or do!!!.
I think Jim should sort this out AGAIN!!
we have had no problems for 8 months then up it pops,
Let us stick to putting a warning on the post then if you dont want to see nudity YOU DONT LOOK, how easy is that
Cheers
Dave
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Buggy Boyz
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| posted on September 28th, 2002 at 09:31 PM |
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Hear we go again !!
I hate to get involved cause it is so much fun kicking tyres and not passing a comment.
Weather you agree with what was done or not is not really an issue. There is certain rules that must be adheared too in order to allow the forum to
run. It currently sits on my server and as such I am ultimately responsible for the content of all files on there. Without getting into to much legal
crap and geek speak, nudity is not on. As I am a resident of Australia and my business is registered as such I am bound by the laws of the land and in
particular the internet usage policy and service providers rules. As such I am prohibited from displaying any form of nudity. Regardless of the nature
of it. Simple as that. Vanderaj is also well aware of the legislation and did what he did to save my ass at the end of the day. If anyone has a
problem with this then I am more than happy to discuss it. If someone else want to take over the running of the XMB 1.6 on a server and webspace that
they own then they are more welcome to it. I and several others do what we do out of the kindness of our hearts, no money changes hands and no
personnel gains are gotten.
The bottom line :
If you want nudity it is time to move onto another site, if you wish to call the lack of nudity censorship, then so be it. If you wish to post them
then put them on your own website and post a link only on here. Then your ass is on the line and not mine. |
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Bugged Again
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| posted on September 28th, 2002 at 09:47 PM |
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Big Brother has spoken |
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 03:05 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Spook
This is about one #$%@ dictating terms for the forum, and threatening punishment if we don't abide by those terms.
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Spook,
Keep it civil. I am not a #$%@. I have a thick enough skin that you could call me a range of things and I wouldn't care overly much as I know
(and all my friends know) that whatever derogatory term or slander you sling at me is not true. This thread is not about your opinion of me.
So don't insult or verbally abuse me or any other member, no matter how much you disagree with them.
Lastly, the only punishment that does stick is the one for RC content, and rightly so. It's in the law, and you'll spend 1-3 years in prison
for posting it. All the other "punishments" as you call them are easily worked around.
Anyway, I'll talk to the powers that be now that we've had the final statement on what's going to be allowed (ie no nudity at all) and
you'll find the guidelines adjusted shortly. If you'd like to be consulted, e-mail me on ajv@greebo.net and unlike this thread, be civil
about it.
Andrew
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Spook
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 04:12 AM |
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So what your saying Brad, is because of the new server we have new rules, regardless of what the members agreed to on the old server.
Aussie veedubbers .com has become the politicaly correct, censored vw pages, where the members opinions on a given subject no longer matter.
Then this is not the forum Jim started & not the forum I joined.
Well, I'm a man of my word & I practice what I preach.
I don't like the way the forum has gone, & I resign my membership.
As for you Andrew, I like the way you didn't reply until you had back up. Shows commitment that.
Since I neither mentioned a name, or used a real word, you have decided I was talking about you. That's just paranoia.
If someone would be so kind as to email me when Jim Gow is back in charge & the situation becomes unf*cked, I'd be much obliged.
Cheers
Spook
[Edited on 28-9-2002 by Spook]
[Edited on 28-9-2002 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 10:48 AM |
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Spook, I have a life. I've been out having fun since leaving work on Friday. I didn't post until 2.30 on Sunday morning for a reason - so I
had simply missed all the action. It's got nothing to do with a spine or the lack of it.
Anyway, Spook, you're still missing the point! It's simply not legal to do what you ask with law as it is now. Doesn't matter if Jim or
Santa Claus is running the show. The guidelines I posted would have allowed nudity to the levels you guys seem to be demanding, but if it got any more
risque than that, we'd be up the crapper. But it's completely moot as the AUP for the server we're on doesn't allow nudity.
Andrew
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 03:54 PM |
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You mean it can tell the difference between two pics, one with clothes and one without???? :o
Kruizin Kol
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BenettonVW
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 06:04 PM |
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All I know is that Spook has been here for a hell of a lot longer than most, and was offered an admin job numerous times but liked the ability to have
freedom of speech and no responsibilities.. Now, with the strong values and morales he believes in, he is leaving over this.
As I said, all I know is that Spook has been here for a hell of a lot longer than most, and now he is gone. Maybe we are doing something wrong
here?
P.S. What the hell is wrong with my pic? |
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KOM123
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 06:50 PM |
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Excuse the expression but can't bygones be bygones? The position on the pics is now clear and of all the many many posts that Spook has made
previously surely nearly all of them have been positive or at least of positive contribution to the forum. Spook if you're still reading these
posts reconsider your position as I'm sure you're input is valued by many, just let this issue die there's heaps more topics to chat
about and that we could draw your knowledge from.
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
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| posted on September 29th, 2002 at 06:59 PM |
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Jim, muchos.co.uk is currently not offering remote viewing of images - they've run out of money.
On the other matter, it's not what we're doing that's wrong. It is simply Australian law. From S.82 of the Act:
82 Compliance with online provider rules
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:
(a) an online provider rule is applicable to the person; and
(b) the person engages in conduct; and
(c) the person's conduct contravenes the rule.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/pasteact/0/136/0/PA004300.htm
To give some context, 50 penalty units is $110 * 50 = $5,500 fine for the person posting the material or responsible for it (ie system administrators)
and not doing anything about it, and the body corporate can have five times that fine if they also don't act. Per incident. (2000 penalty points
is life imprisonment by reference).
Even if we did decide to have a section with an AVS, all it would take it is one (1) complaint to the ABA about material in there, they would classify
the content, and aussieveedubbers would be on the censorware block lists regardless of any action we would take to remedy the situation. That *WOULD*
be a tragedy - no access from most workplaces, libraries, Internet cafes, etc, etc.
Anyway, it's a moot point. The AUP doesn't allow us to host nudity.
Andrew
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