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 downunderxx
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 11:42 AM |
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Brake upgrades
Hi Guys, I have completed a disk brake conversion with the spindles and standars kit on the front of my daughters 71 beetle. I'm still not overly
impressed with the braking, and given this will be her 1st car, I would like it to be as safe as possible. Am I missing something, is there a master
cylinder change or something to be done to match the disk brakes that would improve the overall performance?
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downunderxx
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 11:44 AM |
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Sorry. The disks are on the front only
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STIDUB
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 12:09 PM |
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adjusted the rears?
bleed them?
if its a 71 it should of had front discs already?
pics of what you have may help...
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member 
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 12:17 PM |
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your stock set up "should" be ok
Mine is with a half warm motor
But I have new rotors and pads
Maybe your discs are glazed or something
Old hoses and fluid can be a problem as well
It wouldnt be THAT much to do a whole new set up
rotors, drums, pads, hoses, fluid and refurbished calipers
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Uber Kafer
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 12:28 PM |
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As mentioned by Bizarre & STIdub, other components may be the culprit. Old flexible hoses can be devils, they can stretch when pressure is
applied and rob braking energy, or be internally swollen and restricting proper fluid flow. There is also a prescribed method of breaking-in new
discs and pads, which not many people bother with. Search on the net for more details.
A properly working beetle disc brake system can be extremely good for a non-assisted braking system..........
So, are you comparing it against a modern vacuum boosted system? ..or do you just have to push harder?
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1500S
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 02:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Uber Kafer
Old flexible hoses can be devils, they can stretch when pressure is applied and rob braking energy, or be internally swollen and restricting proper
fluid flow.
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That's exactly the problem I have on the Type 3 but the original drum front. Normally reasonable braking but 3 years of near zero use has gummed
things up a bit. Both front flex lines have a bad case of cholesterol arteries!
DH
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 barls
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 03:01 PM |
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ive got a 72 sbug which has the disc front end as standard. the old man and i fitted a vh40 or 44 which ever was smaller and its reduced my stopping
distance greatly.
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 05:07 PM |
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I take it the VH 40 is a brake booster out of something or other??
Futue te ipsum!!!
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barls
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 05:13 PM |
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yeah its one of the universal ones. its work really well in my car , that said the stock in good condition works well also.
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13bwagon
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 06:12 PM |
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hey barls any pic's of that mod?
BUY A REAL BUG A PRE S BUG...
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barls
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| posted on May 25th, 2010 at 06:21 PM |
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ill see if i can find one. its fitted to the passenger side in the same spot as the master cylinder does on the drivers. ill start looking now and see
if i can find the pic
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downunderxx
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 12:23 AM |
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Thanks for the responses again. I will clarify a few points.
The car is a 71 but was an import so standard with drums all round.
I fitted the new rotors and calipers on the front only. The lines were the original so will check them and re bleed the entire system. Yes I did
adjust the rears after installing new pads. And yes I guess I am comparing to modern day assisted brakes. The reason for the question was to gauge
what I should expect out of this standard set up, as the car is for my daughters first car, and I would like to make it as safe and reliable as
possible. Has anyone fitted a booster etc. What are the racers using, surely not standard!.
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STIDUB
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 12:47 AM |
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EF-EL ish falcon rear discs are a relatively easy fit, pics & info on my thread, hellbugged's, vwcool, & alot of others..
for a stock bug the stock brakes, maintained properly should be more than adequate, myself & my sister learnt to drive in mine, then it was my
daily for a year or so, i wasnt gentle on brakes & it worked fine, though i knew it was an old beetle, locked them coming down a hill in
torrential rain with 3 girls in it once but nothing major, still stopped at the lights at the bottom, tyre choice may of had something to do with that
too, keep that in mind once the brakes are sorted
perhaps compare it to another beetle near you with known good brakes if possible?
location should help, alot of people are willing if asked nicely on here 
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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colonel mustard
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 01:04 AM |
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rear disc kits for like $700-800.... you can get better quality pads... hellbugged has them on the noth i think... drilled or slotted rotors to cool
them quicker...
should really need big brakes on a beetle with a stockish engine... I believe that Joel has standard fronts with disc rear kit, and he has an ej22
powering his beetle. stops amazingly.
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 06:56 AM |
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just put new stock discs on the front
A lot of "mild" racers use stock disc up front and type 3 rear drums - whick were bigger
that is an easy upgrade but parts are becoming hard to get
Futue te ipsum!!!
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 08:48 AM |
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Hi
David ran 3 sessions at the supersprint without any trouble, hes using 944 rears but these wont mask poor performing front brakes.
His front brakes are new German rotors and early Type 3 callipers (pre 1972), these have a slightly bigger front piston than Beetles, they can be
recognised by having twin pins and only having one bleed valve.
Type 3 rear drums are cheap upgrade for the rear.
Steve
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grumble
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 07:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by barls
yeah its one of the universal ones. its work really well in my car , that said the stock in good condition works well also.
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The VH44 is a universal brake booster that we in the trade have been using for over 40 years,they are compact & efficient,reducing pedal pressures
and stopping distances by an incredible amount. I have fitted dozens over the years to all types of vehicles,the fitment to the bug is easy,compact
and very efficient.
I cannot understand why anyone would fit disc brakes without the vacuum assistance. Cheers Les
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Joel
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 07:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by STIDUB
adjusted the rears?
bleed them?
if its a 71 it should of had front discs already?
pics of what you have may help...
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only supers got discs in the 70s
but yeah like above check your rears, cos with setup right stock discs and rear drums pull up amazingly well but the rears have to be perfectly
adjusted
and +1 for the swollen hoses
caught me out once
looked perfect on the outside, but wouldnt pass any fluid
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colonel mustard
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 07:42 PM |
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^^ hence why, i have new hoses since i have new calipers and discs... no point finding out later that you needed it!
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downunderxx
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| posted on May 26th, 2010 at 10:40 PM |
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All great responses guys, and a few options in there for an upgrade if I still feel it necessary.
Still wouldn't mind more detail on the VH44 booster fitment. I think this would be a popular mod for many on this forum if we seen how it had been
done.
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 27th, 2010 at 12:13 AM |
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Hi
A booster wont fix poor performing brakes, it will only make them easier to operate for Nancy boys. You would need to run two boosters, one for each
circuit.
Steve
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barls
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| posted on May 28th, 2010 at 09:06 PM |
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this is not my car but another one we fitted one to.
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downunderxx
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| posted on May 28th, 2010 at 09:24 PM |
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Thanks Barls, thats what I was after. What did you do for vacuum?
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barls
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| posted on May 28th, 2010 at 09:30 PM |
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mines tapped into the manifold balance tube.
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Joel
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| posted on May 29th, 2010 at 10:42 AM |
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geez one step forward to two steps back
why would u want to have a dinosaur single circuit brake system for the sake of having a booster?
if an 88 year old grandmother can drive her 70 bug without one (and trust me she knows 2 speeds, stopped and 50mph) and not crash it once in 40 years
then most average Joe Blows should manage fine as well
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VDU.88A
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| posted on May 29th, 2010 at 11:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
geez one step forward to two steps back
why would u want to have a dinosaur single circuit brake system for the sake of having a booster?
if an 88 year old grandmother can drive her 70 bug without one (and trust me she knows 2 speeds, stopped and 50mph) and not crash it once in 40 years
then most average Joe Blows should manage fine as well
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That was just what i was thinking also this would no longer comply with the ADRS for the vehicle assuming it came out with dual circuit cylinder as
standard. If it came out with single circuit the easiest upgrade would have been a dual circuit system
I'm with you on this one I have no dramas with the stock dual circuit system. Properly adjusted drums and bleed system you should pull up in no time
at all. Why over complicate the situation adding booster extra pipes etc.
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mactaylor
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| posted on May 29th, 2010 at 04:12 PM |
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yeah twin pin type three calipers and type three drums bendex ultimate pads and good fluid in my old beetle had the front discs red hot and only a
little fade after a hard run down granya gap road. not many "normal" cars can do that.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
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grumble
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| posted on May 29th, 2010 at 09:17 PM |
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Whatever,downunderxx asked a question and we supplied an answer,for anyones info this is a 1962 bug. To change to a dual system would still use the
same pedal pressure.end of story.
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matberry
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| posted on May 29th, 2010 at 10:25 PM |
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I fitted one of those style boosters way back to a costomer car upon request.....sorry. I hated it.
The brakes seemed to have a mind of their own, very vague when operating, and wouldn't release until you were well off the pedal....pretty crazy
stuff.
Stock works fine untill about 140 rwhp and a mad nut behind the wheel .
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 30th, 2010 at 11:05 AM |
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The question here should be "what brand" of front caliper did you use with the disc conversion.
I raced for well over a decade with standard OEM brake parts (Type 3 brakes on a beetle) with NO probs and great pedal feel and response.
Recently I replace the drum brake frontend with discs on my 74 beetle. I used a "no name" copy caliper and the pedal feel is crap and the brakes
feel worse than the original drums.......so what caliper did you use ?
Dont get suckered into using boosters and discs all round, you dont need it
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